Times you have grinded in video games

[rusty_shackleford]

I wonder how many literal, actual years of my life I have spent grinding in videogames. Live service games in particular are a black hole of time.

One of the last few times I played WoW I typed /played and felt very, very depressed by what I got back.
Tried to cope that I wasn't active most of the time or whatever, but yea

Now add up how much time you have spent at stop lights. lol

Not even close. It was over 2 years.

I've talked about it sporadically on the forum, but it's an addiction and I can't control myself. People laugh about video games being an addiction, but it absolutely is.

[Xenich]

One of the last few times I played WoW I typed /played and felt very, very depressed by what I got back.
Tried to cope that I wasn't active most of the time or whatever, but yea

Now add up how much time you have spent at stop lights. lol

Not even close. It was over 2 years.

Well, on the positive side of things, is it wasted time if you enjoyed what you are doing?

I am sure I have around that much time doing things like fishing and the like, which to be honest is nothing more than sitting on your *** watching the water. So... /shrug

[rusty_shackleford]

Now add up how much time you have spent at stop lights. lol

Not even close. It was over 2 years.

Well, on the positive side of things, is it wasted time if you enjoyed what you are doing?

I am sure I have around that much time doing things like fishing and the like, which to be honest is nothing more than sitting on your *** watching the water. So... /shrug

I didn't even enjoy most of it, I just did it because.
It's like asking a junkie if they enjoyed their time doing drugs

[Xenich]

Not even close. It was over 2 years.

Well, on the positive side of things, is it wasted time if you enjoyed what you are doing?

I am sure I have around that much time doing things like fishing and the like, which to be honest is nothing more than sitting on your *** watching the water. So... /shrug

I didn't even enjoy most of it, I just did it because.
It's like asking a junkie if they enjoyed their time doing drugs

Ok, if that is the case... yeah... sympathy.

[rusty_shackleford]

It was over 2 years.

I'm sure someone will think "heh 2 years? It has been out for so long"
the last time I played they were just releasing the panda guys, and I had already mostly checked out by then

Probably talking 8-12 hours a day every day for years

[Xenich]

It was over 2 years.

I'm sure someone will think "heh 2 years? It has been out for so long"
the last time I played they were just releasing the panda guys, and I had already mostly checked out by then

Probably talking 8-12 hours a day every day for years

Well, when I think about "time wasted" in games like EQ and WoW, I don't "regret" the time spent and I am sure I spent an enormous amount of time, but I enjoyed every bit of it. Then again, I also cut that **** quick when it got to the point where it didn't meet my expectations. EQ I quit around pre-GoD, and WoW during BC. When I disagreed what the game was doing in terms of various grinds, gimmicks, etc... I dropped it like a hot potato.

[rusty_shackleford]

I dropped it like a hot potato.

Yea… I can't do that.
MMOs are the only thing that really grips me quite like that, not sure why.

It's like a cheatcode to tricking yourself into you're being successful at life for repeatedly achieving short-term goals that move you towards a long-term goal.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

It was over 2 years.

I'm sure someone will think "heh 2 years? It has been out for so long"
the last time I played they were just releasing the panda guys, and I had already mostly checked out by then

Probably talking 8-12 hours a day every day for years

Well, when I think about "time wasted" in games like EQ and WoW, I don't "regret" the time spent and I am sure I spent an enormous amount of time, but I enjoyed every bit of it. Then again, I also cut that **** quick when it got to the point where it didn't meet my expectations. EQ I quit around pre-GoD, and WoW during BC. When I disagreed what the game as doing in terms of various grinds, gimmicks, etc... I dropped it like a hot potato.

I think the dispiriting part is thinking about whether or not I could have earned a higher tier of degree earlier and be further ahead in life now instead of having grinded for a mount that I don't even use anymore or fake numbers that don't mean anything to me now. The games are fun in the moment, but you only have so much time on this earth, and what you could be doing now could be making you better off later.

[Vaako]

It was over 2 years.

I'm sure someone will think "heh 2 years? It has been out for so long"
the last time I played they were just releasing the panda guys, and I had already mostly checked out by then

Probably talking 8-12 hours a day every day for years

Was similar for me in my 20s with daoc, but mostly pvp. Now 20 years later I can find hardly the motivation to play anything. Feels like I have seen everything worthwhile already what games have to offer. And if the benefit/time investment is outrageous I learned to just not care anymore. Most of the time devs/companies will make your progress/time spend worthless anyway in later patches.

But its not that that time spend was bad or would make more sense investing it into real life stuff. Most people which focus just on their job have similar regrets that they didnt focus enough on the things they loved to do.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Another issue that ingame /playtime trackers don't track is the sheer amount of time you have to do out of game research. Consulting wikis and trawling through old forums to get info on how game mechanics work, what builds are viable, etc. Reading Icy Veins or prydwen guides on how overcomplicated modern mechanics work. Listening to podcasts to keep up with changes. Etc.

[Xenich]

I dropped it like a hot potato.

Yea… I can't do that.
MMOs are the only thing that really grips me quite like that, not sure why.

It's like a cheatcode to tricking yourself into you're being successful at life for repeatedly achieving short-term goals that move you towards a long-term goal.

I get it, and if those games could have kept the "formula" that attracted me I would still be playing them like a drone, but they always moved to modern gaming practices and it was like pouring sour milk into my cheerios. It really didn't take much to make me spit it out.

It is why I honestly can't find enjoyment in most games these days. Most things modern gamers claim is "bad design" in games is the very thing I enjoyed in them.

I have truly become the "Get off my lawn" guy...

[rusty_shackleford]

you only have so much time on this earth, and what you could be doing now could be making you better off later.

That's the same mindset but just applied to something people think 'matters'. Just do what's fun and isn't going to harm you, not what you think is successful or something.
I dunno, spend some time imagining you're on your deathbed and see if you can get into your future frame of mind, think of what you wished you spent more time on.

I should emphasize that the biggest issue was:
A) It wasn't fun. I did not enjoy it. It was an addiction.
B) It was harming me. Physically(my health was ****), mentally, my life overall, etc., I was paying and wasting time to hurt myself, I was a junkie.

Another issue that ingame /playtime trackers don't track is the sheer amount of time you have to do out of game research. Consulting wikis and trawling through old forums to get info on how game mechanics work, what builds are viable, etc. Reading Icy Veins or prydwen guides on how overcomplicated modern mechanics work. Listening to podcasts to keep up with changes. Etc.

As I stated prior, this is just a cope tactic I used. "Oh, I didn't actually play all those hours!"
Nah.

[rusty_shackleford]

Most of the time devs/companies will make your progress/time spend worthless anyway in later patches.

One of the biggest issues I have putting that time into a "live service" game anymore is I can't "own" that time. It can be taken away from me at any moment, ruined, etc., That really bothers me.

It's not a hypothetical. When I was playing EQ with @Kalarion and @Tweed this happened to us. Our experience got completely destroyed and we stopped playing because of the developer, with no recourse.

[Tweed]

Most of the time devs/companies will make your progress/time spend worthless anyway in later patches.

One of the biggest issues I have putting that time into a "live service" game anymore is I can't "own" that time. It can be taken away from me at any moment, ruined, etc., That really bothers me.

It's not a hypothetical. When I was playing EQ with @Kalarion and @Tweed this happened to us. Our experience got completely destroyed and we stopped playing because of the developer, with no recourse.

That really ate **** because we were doing pretty good. Even managed to swing Canni 2, which no one ever does.

[Xenich]

you only have so much time on this earth, and what you could be doing now could be making you better off later.

That's the same mindset but just applied to something people think 'matters'. Just do what's fun and isn't going to harm you, not what you think is successful or something.
I dunno, spend some time imagining you're on your deathbed and see if you can get into your future frame of mind, think of what you wished you spent more time on.

I should emphasize that the biggest issue was:
A) It wasn't fun. I did not enjoy it. It was an addiction.
B) It was harming me. Physically(my health was ****), mentally, my life overall, etc., I was paying and wasting time to hurt myself, I was a junkie.

Another issue that ingame /playtime trackers don't track is the sheer amount of time you have to do out of game research. Consulting wikis and trawling through old forums to get info on how game mechanics work, what builds are viable, etc. Reading Icy Veins or prydwen guides on how overcomplicated modern mechanics work. Listening to podcasts to keep up with changes. Etc.

As I stated prior, this is just a cope tactic I used. "Oh, I didn't actually play all those hours!"
Nah.

Are you having a midlife crisis Rusty? Should we expect a new sports car and some 20 year old blonde bimbo stealth posting as you on the site soon? LOL

[Vaako]

Most of the time devs/companies will make your progress/time spend worthless anyway in later patches.

One of the biggest issues I have putting that time into a "live service" game anymore is I can't "own" that time. It can be taken away from me at any moment, ruined, etc., That really bothers me.

It's not a hypothetical. When I was playing EQ with @Kalarion and @Tweed this happened to us. Our experience got completely destroyed and we stopped playing because of the developer, with no recourse.

Yeah if you choose your games nowadays you need to have that Yoda quote internalized.

[rusty_shackleford]

you only have so much time on this earth, and what you could be doing now could be making you better off later.

That's the same mindset but just applied to something people think 'matters'. Just do what's fun and isn't going to harm you, not what you think is successful or something.
I dunno, spend some time imagining you're on your deathbed and see if you can get into your future frame of mind, think of what you wished you spent more time on.

I should emphasize that the biggest issue was:
A) It wasn't fun. I did not enjoy it. It was an addiction.
B) It was harming me. Physically(my health was ****), mentally, my life overall, etc., I was paying and wasting time to hurt myself, I was a junkie.

Another issue that ingame /playtime trackers don't track is the sheer amount of time you have to do out of game research. Consulting wikis and trawling through old forums to get info on how game mechanics work, what builds are viable, etc. Reading Icy Veins or prydwen guides on how overcomplicated modern mechanics work. Listening to podcasts to keep up with changes. Etc.

As I stated prior, this is just a cope tactic I used. "Oh, I didn't actually play all those hours!"
Nah.

Are you having a midlife crisis Rusty? Should we expect a new sports car and some 20 year old blonde bimbo stealth posting as you on the site soon? LOL

All of this happened years ago as I said. MoP released in 2012 if you want an approximate year.

I just try to stay away from MMOs now, maybe dabbling with one for a month every year.

[Xenich]

That's the same mindset but just applied to something people think 'matters'. Just do what's fun and isn't going to harm you, not what you think is successful or something.
I dunno, spend some time imagining you're on your deathbed and see if you can get into your future frame of mind, think of what you wished you spent more time on.

I should emphasize that the biggest issue was:
A) It wasn't fun. I did not enjoy it. It was an addiction.
B) It was harming me. Physically(my health was ****), mentally, my life overall, etc., I was paying and wasting time to hurt myself, I was a junkie.



As I stated prior, this is just a cope tactic I used. "Oh, I didn't actually play all those hours!"
Nah.

Are you having a midlife crisis Rusty? Should we expect a new sports car and some 20 year old blonde bimbo stealth posting as you on the site soon? LOL

All of this happened years ago as I said. MoP released in 2012 if you want an approximate year.

I just try to stay away from MMOs now, maybe dabbling with one for a month every year.

I was just talking about the reflection and regret aspect of your comments and I was poking fun.

As for your comments about "live service", this is one of my biggest complaints. I really wish that when tech reached the level that game companies would consider the whole selling "Server/client" software concepts of MMOs rather than trying to cling to what they have. I think it would have been better for both sides, but well... Jew know. *chuckle*

[Kalarion]

...

Remember how Verant would use "nearly" unbeatable raid targets at end game to slow the top guilds?

I remember PoA had targets that were "for the most part" too difficult and kept the top tier raiders "grinding" gear off past targets to min/max to the point where they could take on the next island target, combined with the need to perfect raid practice to the point "no error" efficiency in order to beat them prior to Kunark. They kept this focus a bit even into Kunark with VP and later Velious. This is why I considered the "Try" as a grind aspect.

The most egregious example I can think of was Rathe Council. It was made deliberately unbeatable (let's not go into Coirnav being a weighted coin-flip) until Sony was ready with Quarm. Reference Furor's infamous front-page rant (not getting into Furor himself or anything, I hated what he did to EQ and later to wow, but just the fact of the rant).

[Xenich]

...

Remember how Verant would use "nearly" unbeatable raid targets at end game to slow the top guilds?

I remember PoA had targets that were "for the most part" too difficult and kept the top tier raiders "grinding" gear off past targets to min/max to the point where they could take on the next island target, combined with the need to perfect raid practice to the point "no error" efficiency in order to beat them prior to Kunark. They kept this focus a bit even into Kunark with VP and later Velious. This is why I considered the "Try" as a grind aspect.

The most egregious example I can think of was Rathe Council. It was made deliberately unbeatable (let's not go into Coirnav being a weighted coin-flip) until Sony was ready with Quarm. Reference Furor's infamous front-page rant (not getting into Furor himself or anything, I hated what he did to EQ and later to wow, but just the fact of the rant).

Yeah, I think that was Smed Sony crap. Verant would push the limits, allow things to be beatable with extreme application to slow guilds, but Smed was slippery and tended to do things underhanded. Not a surprise as PoP was mostly his folly and one of the downward directions of EQ IMO. PoP was really a disaster though on many levels and while it had some interesting content, I never understood those who "loved" that expansion over the early previous. Funny thing about Furor in that was that he whined about that (rightly so), but then turned around and was one of the biggest **** blockers for Time (and previous zones) to keep other guilds from progressing.

Also, I think part of all that was because Sony didn't know its head from its arse concerning the games code. Remember their excuses about Bards and how the developers claimed they didn't fully understand how Bard code worked and somehow couldn't fix the blatant abuses Bards were doing?

Anyway, PoP was the era where I was already starting to think about moving on.

[Norfleet]

Remember how Verant would use "nearly" unbeatable raid targets at end game to slow the top guilds?

Not specifically, since that game cost money, and I don't play games that cost me money, but I know of the concept.

I remember PoA had targets that were "for the most part" too difficult and kept the top tier raiders "grinding" gear off past targets to min/max to the point where they could take on the next island target

That's just regular grind, though. If it were "grindless", that'd be a one-and-done. You'd kill that mob, and then you'd have what you needed from it.

combined with the need to perfect raid practice to the point "no error" efficiency in order to beat them prior to Kunark. They kept this focus a bit even into Kunark with VP and later Velious. This is why I considered the "Try" as a grind aspect.

Yes, but you being bad at the game isn't "grind". If you die repeatedly because you suck, and are retrying to do better, that's not grinding. Otherwise replaying a single level so you can replay it repeatedly to git gud and achieve the perfect run would be grinding. But no: you're only supposed to do it once. You'd receive no useful reward for beating it the second time. Grind is when playing the game correctly still requires you to repeat content that you have already solved and beaten. Compare that to, say, an Adventure Game. Getting yourself killed repeatedly in an attempt to find the solution (or just for amusement) isn't grinding. If you know how to play the game, you one-and-done the thing. In contrast, farming 9001 King Kong balls is grinding. You have already solved and beaten the monster, but the game is forcing you to do it again, repeating the motions for no other reason beyond to extend play value. That's where the grinding sets in. Grinding is where you're attacking a known problem by applying a known solution over and over.

[WhiteShark]

That's the same mindset but just applied to something people think 'matters'. Just do what's fun and isn't going to harm you, not what you think is successful or something.
I dunno, spend some time imagining you're on your deathbed and see if you can get into your future frame of mind, think of what you wished you spent more time on.

I don't think it's quite that simple. There are things on which I spent loads of time and enjoyed that I still think I will probably regret on my deathbed. I played League of Legends for many thousands of hours. I have some fond memories, sure, some friends I made (though I don't think I talk to any of them anymore), but was it really worth it? I can argue that there may be some transferability to the social skills I gained, but there are many other things I could have done that probably would have enriched me more.

[rusty_shackleford]

That's the same mindset but just applied to something people think 'matters'. Just do what's fun and isn't going to harm you, not what you think is successful or something.
I dunno, spend some time imagining you're on your deathbed and see if you can get into your future frame of mind, think of what you wished you spent more time on.

I don't think it's quite that simple. There are things on which I spent loads of time and enjoyed that I still think I will probably regret on my deathbed. I played League of Legends for many thousands of hours. I have some fond memories, sure, some friends I made (though I don't think I talk to any of them anymore), but was it really worth it? I can argue that there may be some transferability to the social skills I gained, but there are many other things I could have done that probably would have enriched me more.

well yeah it's league of legends

[Tangerine]

I tried to grind a bunch of dinosaurs in Final Fantasy VI to get some item that would revive General Leo.

It didn't work.

[TKVNC]

Not even close. It was over 2 years.

Well, on the positive side of things, is it wasted time if you enjoyed what you are doing?

I am sure I have around that much time doing things like fishing and the like, which to be honest is nothing more than sitting on your *** watching the water. So... /shrug

I didn't even enjoy most of it, I just did it because.
It's like asking a junkie if they enjoyed their time doing drugs

As true as it gets.

I wasted most of my 20s on video games. Some played in excess of 20,000 hours. Several in the high thousands.

Sure, I've got a few 'realm firsts', but none of that matters at all, since most of it's gone now. Dust in the wind.

Games are a genuine addiciton - I wonder sometimes what might have happened if I never started.

[swbgtoc]

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/grind#English

(video games) To repeat a task a large number of times in a row to achieve a specific goal.

What are some times you have grinded out a task in video games? What game? What was the goal/reason for the grind?

In Dragon's Dogma DA, I used to run around and kill everything and hoard materials and money just for fun, I did that for 100 hours and never finished the game, but I loved it.

[swbgtoc]

Also in Pokemon when I learned about EVs I would autistically grind forever to get the correct EVs on every single Pokemon and not waste stat points. It ruined Pokemon for me, I hate that system. I prefer the gen 1 and 2 DV system where you can max out everything.

[cdx]

...
Games are a genuine addiciton - I wonder sometimes what might have happened if I never started.

Probably alcoholism, smoking, or some other drug, unless you were really lucky and became workaholic? If you need an addiction to cope, you'll probably get an addiction. I think fairly few young people manage to sort their stuff out in better ways without good guidance.

[TKVNC]

...
Games are a genuine addiciton - I wonder sometimes what might have happened if I never started.

Probably alcoholism, smoking, or some other drug, unless you were really lucky and became workaholic? If you need an addiction to cope, you'll probably get an addiction. I think fairly few young people manage to sort their stuff out in better ways without good guidance.

You might be right.

[Demonic Fate]

Is it grinding to play roguelikes at all? Technically you're doing the same content over and over, though the layout and distribution is different every time.

Is it grinding to play 500 CoD/Battlefield/Destiny pvp matches to unlock the Megagun 4000? Same game mode, different ******* to shoot each time.