Warhammer 40,000: Rogue Trader

[Gandohar]

• Bi-Princess Jae: tossed out airlock as soon as it mentioned heretical The Gay™ nonsense. (Even made up a lovely portrait for her too. Oh well.)

You don't have to wait for Jae to slither onto your ship. You can shoot her execution style at the tail end of the quest to recruit her. Which I was very pleased to find out, and do. From the moment I saw her I thought "you reek of some writer's private fantasies and wish fulfillment."

[rusty_shackleford]

WH40k universe has this weird thing where they want to be tongue-in-cheek "akshually the humans are the bad guys, look at what they're doing!" as if the situation does not demand they act that way. It's so bizarre. "It's a parody!" A parody of what? A parody of fascism? It's fascist when you kill people who mingle with demons that can cause an entire world to die? Fascism is great!

The argument is that their methods are extreme, yet humanity is losing. They aren't going far enough. They say the emperor would hate them for worshiping him, but that's merely misunderstanding why he hated religion. The fact that worshiping the emperor turns him into a god that can protect humanity is obviously not something he'd tell them to stop doing, that would be stupid redditor atheist nonsense. The genie is out of the bottle, the chaos gods are there. If anything, start praying harder.

It's obvious WH40k was born prior to the Total Politicization of Everything, and therefore any attempt to course correct requires a complete rewrite of the entire setting.

[Gandohar]

But having said all that, there is still room in our hearts for the Chaos players. Personally I'm partial to the Dark Mechanicus. Because whoever said that Slaanesh gets to have all the fun?

[DrSneed]

Emps wanted to stamp out religion because it's extremely easy to corrupt to chaos worship and it empowers the chaos gods.
Him accepting worship would mean he'd lose his free will after becoming a god. Chaos Gods cannot act against their nature.
He wanted to have his own webway with blackjack and hookers, so he could evolve humans into a psychic race like the eldar.

[rusty_shackleford]

Emps wanted to stamp out religion because it's extremely easy to corrupt to chaos worship and it empowers the chaos gods.
Him accepting worship would mean he'd lose his free will after becoming a god. Chaos Gods cannot act against their nature.
He wanted to have his own webway with blackjack and hookers, so he could evolve humans into a psychic race like the eldar.

so you're saying the same exact scenario as everything is right now minus humanity actually having a god of their own is the situation he'd prefer?

[DrSneed]

Emps wanted to stamp out religion because it's extremely easy to corrupt to chaos worship and it empowers the chaos gods.
Him accepting worship would mean he'd lose his free will after becoming a god. Chaos Gods cannot act against their nature.
He wanted to have his own webway with blackjack and hookers, so he could evolve humans into a psychic race like the eldar.

so you're saying the same exact scenario as everything is right now minus humanity actually having a god of their own is the situation he'd prefer?

They only really started having their own god more recently, wouldn't even really call him a god more of a nascent one. His blessings are usually really subtle, unlike the actual chaos gods.
Before the protections that emps provided was just being a juiced up psyker, constantly snuffing out other weaker psykers to fuel his powers.

[rusty_shackleford]

Emps wanted to stamp out religion because it's extremely easy to corrupt to chaos worship and it empowers the chaos gods.
Him accepting worship would mean he'd lose his free will after becoming a god. Chaos Gods cannot act against their nature.
He wanted to have his own webway with blackjack and hookers, so he could evolve humans into a psychic race like the eldar.

so you're saying the same exact scenario as everything is right now minus humanity actually having a god of their own is the situation he'd prefer?

They only really started having their own god more recently, wouldn't even really call him a god more of a nascent one. His blessings are usually really subtle, unlike the actual chaos gods.
Before the protections that emps provided was just being a juiced up psyker, constantly snuffing out other weaker psykers to fuel his powers.

Yeah but the question is whether he'd prefer the same exact situation except he's incapable of helping humanity

[rusty_shackleford]

(obviously the answer is no, the idea that he'd reject religion requires him to not be a corpse sitting on a chair)

[DrSneed]

so you're saying the same exact scenario as everything is right now minus humanity actually having a god of their own is the situation he'd prefer?

They only really started having their own god more recently, wouldn't even really call him a god more of a nascent one. His blessings are usually really subtle, unlike the actual chaos gods.
Before the protections that emps provided was just being a juiced up psyker, constantly snuffing out other weaker psykers to fuel his powers.

Yeah but the question is whether he'd prefer the same exact situation except he's incapable of helping humanity

What he does on the golden throne isn't predicated by if he is worshiped or not. So yes, he would prefer not being worshipped.

[rusty_shackleford]

What he does on the golden throne isn't predicated by if he is worshiped or not. So yes, he would prefer not being worshipped.

He'd prefer them not do the one thing that would allow him to help humanity?

[rusty_shackleford]

I guess you could cope with "they can keep doing the thing they're doing and keep losing is what he'd want" but that seems like a pretty bad idea to me

[DrSneed]

Emperor becoming a god of order would just enslave humanity not save it.

[rusty_shackleford]

They only really started having their own god more recently, wouldn't even really call him a god more of a nascent one. His blessings are usually really subtle, unlike the actual chaos gods.

all this stuff seems like fan lore, he's stated to be as powerful as Nurgle

The neverground of the garden shook hard. Daemons large and small were screaming, emerging from their hiding places and fleeing in riotous stampede. Away in the distance, ever visible wherever you went in the garden, Nurgle’s Black Manse shivered, and Mortarion felt another presence, as powerful as the first, looking at him from behind its ever-shuttered windows.

[rusty_shackleford]

"if we became gods and used power against them, that would allow them to become gods and use their power against us!"
wh40k version of lolbertarians/"conservatives"

[rusty_shackleford]

you can just do things, you can just become the god of mankind and kill evil, it's your birthright to do this as the emperor of mankind actually

[rusty_shackleford]

"but what if the situation were reversed?" says space marine while getting devoured by a tyranid swarm

[DrSneed]

They only really started having their own god more recently, wouldn't even really call him a god more of a nascent one. His blessings are usually really subtle, unlike the actual chaos gods.

all this stuff seems like fan lore, he's stated to be as powerful as Nurgle

The neverground of the garden shook hard. Daemons large and small were screaming, emerging from their hiding places and fleeing in riotous stampede. Away in the distance, ever visible wherever you went in the garden, Nurgle’s Black Manse shivered, and Mortarion felt another presence, as powerful as the first, looking at him from behind its ever-shuttered windows.

This is Mortarion feeling a powerful presence coming from Guilliman being healed by the Emperor. He is definitely not as strong as Nurgle.

"if we became gods and used power against them, that would allow them to become gods and use their power against us!"
wh40k version of lolbertarians/"conservatives"

Radical inquisitors seconds before disaster.

[Unhelpful Contrarian]

From the moment I saw her I thought "you reek of some writer's private fantasies and wish fulfillment."

I got some bad news for in Dark Hersey.

[Kalarion]

...
This is Mortarion feeling a powerful presence coming from Guilliman being healed by the Emperor. He is definitely not as strong as Nurgle.

Go reread Godblight. It's not Guilliman being healed by the Emperor, it's Guilliman becoming the Emperor for a short time. That was the whole point of their play, to bring the Emperor into the Garden where he could act directly against Nurgle and Mortarion.

Radical inquisitors seconds before disaster.

Yes, yes, but the problem is you're trying to propound rationalizations that make zero sense as shown by Rusty. It's not really your fault, you're just trying to work with the slop you've been given, but it is slop. There is no good way for Black Library to make humanity the bad guy, or the Emperor ascending to godhood a bad thing, without completely rewriting everything. There is no good justification for saying religion bad/humanity bad, because one was never intended. Black Library took a square peg and smashed it repeatedly into a round hole. Of course it looks ugly and broken - it is!

Far better to just make up your own headcanon and ignore whatever GW's current shitpile is. Have I mentioned that the Emperor is actually Lucifer?

EDIT: hanging quote tag.

[DrSneed]

...
This is Mortarion feeling a powerful presence coming from Guilliman being healed by the Emperor. He is definitely not as strong as Nurgle.

Go reread Godblight. It's not Guilliman being healed by the Emperor, it's Guilliman becoming the Emperor for a short time. That was the whole point of their play, to bring the Emperor into the Garden where he could act directly against Nurgle and Mortarion.

Radical inquisitors seconds before disaster.

Yes, yes, but the problem is you're trying to propound rationalizations that make zero sense as shown by Rusty. It's not really your fault, you're just trying to work with the slop you've been given, but it is slop. There is no good way for Black Library to make humanity the bad guy, or the Emperor ascending to godhood a bad thing, without completely rewriting everything. There is no good justification for saying religion bad/humanity bad, because one was never intended. Black Library took a square peg and smashed it repeatedly into a round hole. Of course it looks ugly and broken - it is!

Far better to just make up your own headcanon and ignore whatever GW's current shitpile is. Have I mentioned that the Emperor is actually Lucifer?

EDIT: hanging quote tag.

It's a silly grimdark setting, equating it with the real world and caring if "religion bad" in setting is an actual thing is dumb. It's demonstrably bad in 40k.
The Emperor has already stopped himself from becoming a chaos god before. He would've become an uber malice and destroyed everything in existence.
You're also forgetting the type of people writing this slop. He will not be a force of good as the god of order; instead, he'll enslave humanity and strip them of their freewill.

[Norfleet]

you can just do things, you can just become the god of mankind and kill evil, it's your birthright to do this as the emperor of mankind actually

The thing is, 40K operates on the model that gods are constrained by their nature. If you're a god of degeneracy and debauchery, you cannot be anything other than degenerate and debaucherous. You become defined by your role. If you're a god of plumbers, you can only lay pipe, you can no longer perform electrical or brick work. The Emperor did not wish to be a god because he did not wish to be constrained in this way, because that's what becoming a god means in 40K.

[Unhelpful Contrarian]

I just learned that the VA for ulfar has ***** out.

[Demonic Fate]

80s/early 90s Warhammer 40k was a "parody" in the same sense that much other derivative late-'80s science fiction was a "parody" - it was extremely over-the-top and shooting for the upper limit of cool, aware of and accepting that it would overshoot into silliness at times (eg. Obi-Wan Sherlock Cloiseau).

It's parody like GWAR or Manowar were parody, not parody like Monty Python and the Holy Grail. It's parody because it has Noise Marines with flame guitars and biker space dwarves, not because it's ackchually a metaphorical critique of John Major. When it describes how a minor Administratum transcription error causes leads to a hundred planets being executed for heresy, it is parodic because of the absurd disproportion of the carnage, not because the Administratum resembles the Ministry of Home Affairs. (Though, 30 years later, Starmer and Kyle seem to be doing their best to go down that road. *****.)

From 3rd edition onwards, this was largely faded out and it tended to play the grimness straight with zero 'parody'. This was also the mid-late 90s / early 00s, the age of Vampire: The Masquerade and the Matrix and Evanescence, when being dark and edgy needed no excuse because leather and spikes and blood were all the most awesome they would ever be.

Then, starting in the 2010s and over the course of a decade or so, people began wearing flannel and ironically listening to ****** indie music, and slowly being dark and edgy became extremely cringe and all that leather had better be vegan, sir. But obviously you can't file all the spikes off Warhammer 40k without making it entirely pointless, so they dug up a bunch of old references that describes 40k as a 'parody' and injected it with an entirely different meaning - 'noooo we don't actually mean all the totalitarianism, the cool-*** space marine bolting xenos into paste is totally supposed to be a bad thing' - and the fig leaf was raised whenever some unpaid Jezebel.com blogger tut-tutted at their nerd brother for playing that dangerously backwards game.

Then, in the 2020s, there was enough personnel turnover / liberal brain rot at GW and Black Library that their brand & markerting drones started taking the fig leaf seriously. And that's you get "Warhammer is for everyone!" posts and female Custodes and ***** Necrons and gender-neutral Orks.

[Unhelpful Contrarian]

https://www.pcgamesn.com/warhammer-40k- ... -learnings

After reading the recent article interview , it really cemented the fact that Owlcat learned absolutely nothing and will repeat the same mistakes In Dark Heresy.

“the choice was either to deliver something with less bugs or less immersion potential, with less 'burning' things inside it. We, as a studio, decided to go [with more bugs].”

What a ******* joke.

[Oyster Sauce]

https://www.pcgamesn.com/warhammer-40k- ... -learnings

After reading the recent article interview , it really cemented the fact that Owlcat learned absolutely nothing and will repeat the same mistakes In Dark Heresy.

“the choice was either to deliver something with less bugs or less immersion potential, with less 'burning' things inside it. We, as a studio, decided to go [with more bugs].”

What a ******* joke.

Correct choice

[MrTwinkls]

https://www.pcgamesn.com/warhammer-40k- ... -learnings

After reading the recent article interview , it really cemented the fact that Owlcat learned absolutely nothing and will repeat the same mistakes In Dark Heresy.

“the choice was either to deliver something with less bugs or less immersion potential, with less 'burning' things inside it. We, as a studio, decided to go [with more bugs].”

What a ******* joke.

Just don't play right after release. I waited for a few years till played both Pathfinders. Still waiting a year or two to play Rogue Trader. Isn't this a common sense with modern games (even multiplayer ones)?

[rusty_shackleford]

Unchecked ambition always leads to the better game, even if unfinished.

[Oyster Sauce]

Unchecked ambition always leads to the better game, even if unfinished.

The best RPGs you can play all have mandatory community patches that fix 3000 bugs

[Cedric]

Owlcat games all suck but it's true; you can't make a good RPG without a ton of bugs. That is because a good RPG has a lot of reactivity, tons of mechanics and interlocking systems and due to the complexity of all that, bugs are inevitable. You are lucky if they fix a few of them after release.

[Unhelpful Contrarian]

https://www.pcgamesn.com/warhammer-40k- ... -learnings

After reading the recent article interview , it really cemented the fact that Owlcat learned absolutely nothing and will repeat the same mistakes In Dark Heresy.

“the choice was either to deliver something with less bugs or less immersion potential, with less 'burning' things inside it. We, as a studio, decided to go [with more bugs].”

What a ******* joke.

Just don't play right after release. I waited for a few years till played both Pathfinders. Still waiting a year or two to play Rogue Trader. Isn't this a common sense with modern games (even multiplayer ones)?

Usually the bugs are tolerable enough to look pass the issue however in Owlcat case for Rogue Trader it was straight up unplayable for most of the game . I won’t make that mistake again and will wait three year after it release going forward in any future games.