Dungeons & Dragons Online

[Xenich]

This kinda came and went.

Yeah, the game is not for everyone.

Too many layers, and it punishes people who play modern MMO style until they learn it.

Only MMO that has content that avoids end-game stagnation in the modern sense.

[Tweed]

This kinda came and went.

Yeah, the game is not for everyone.

Too many layers, and it punishes people who play modern MMO style until they learn it.

Only MMO that has content that avoids end-game stagnation in the modern sense.

I never said I wasn't enjoying it, but everyone seemed to break off right at the same time.

[Xenich]

This kinda came and went.

Yeah, the game is not for everyone.

Too many layers, and it punishes people who play modern MMO style until they learn it.

Only MMO that has content that avoids end-game stagnation in the modern sense.

I never said I wasn't enjoying it, but everyone seemed to break off right at the same time.

I had the same problem getting some of my friends from other games to play it. It just doesn't seem to hold interest for some it seems.

I think the biggest hurdle is the FTP content doesn't tend to really show its strengths and some of the detailed complexities in play such as more complex puzzles, massive dungeons with detailed progressions, etc... are paywalled behind expansions or at later levels. Also, early levels in D&D don't provide a lot to work with.

Since I have picked up the expansions and various content over the years, it feels like a massive game to me that plays openly, but I noticed the other day trying to make a FTP account to see if I could use the extra toon to unlock VoN5, that.. well... it looks like a massive pay wall to new players and it is a pain in the *** starting out without all the content and options open.

In the end, it plays so different to other MMOs and as @Boontaker mentioned, it really is a "one game focus" type of game due to its massive learning curve.

It is the best fit for doing raid content with limited people though if you put the time in. I think 4 people could probably do all the raids in the game, even end game provided they build for it, which is near impossible in most MMOs out there.

Still though, it is such a brilliant concept for reusing content at all levels (gear, quests, character building, crafting, etc...).

I recently found out they have a feature where you can take old raiding gear that has set bonuses and craft it into a augment that can be slotted into other gear essentially allowing you to stack numerous effects and bonuses. Heck, I thought I had worked out close to the best stacking of gear until I saw that and now I have a massive list of gear from old raids to try and collect to see if I can stack things even more.

Game is like the energizer bunny on layered content.

[rusty_shackleford]

the biggest issue with the game is 1. monetization 2. the UI

[Xenich]

the biggest issue with the game is 1. monetization 2. the UI

Yeah, the monetization is insane if trying to do the FTP angle.

Expansions + sub take care of most of it. Still, the initial buy in would be a pretty steep.

Expansion Trove (Ravenloft, Shadowfell, Underdark): 60 bucks, never seen it on sale.
Saltmarsh, Vecna: 10-20 depending on sale.
Isle of Dread, Sharn, Feywild: 15-40 depending on sale.
Drannor: 40 bucks (newest)

So, just the expansions you are looking at over 150 bucks for buy in and then you would still have to sub for 15 bucks a month to avoid having to buy access to all the little things.

I picked up the expansions mostly each time they came out and used my points to pick up various things over the years combined with catching all the freebie specials, giveaways, etc...

I can see how if I was starting out fresh right now, it would be a bit... well... yeah, I fully understand people being turned off by that.

As for the UI, I don't know... I guess I got used to it and I play at 7830x1440 resolution. I have learned all the tricks to make the interface work well (ie hotkey for looting and targeting, Pets, etc...).

My biggest gripe is the buff bar (aside from the lag that is now a major problem). If I could move that, it would be just fine, but I can live with it forced to the far left top of the screen.

[Boontaker]

I know there is a popular UI mod people use. I don't use it but I'm sure it's easy to find.

[Xenich]

I know there is a popular UI mod people use. I don't use it but I'm sure it's easy to find.

Edit:

Ok, found Rogue's Blackbird (Thought it was pay walled, just a donation pop up)

https://forums.ddo.com/index.php?thread ... -skin.412/




There are other ones, but this looks the cleanest.

Still just a basic reskin though.

edit:

Still not sure how they got the buff bar to the other side of the screen though. Will have to look into it. Mine defaults to the far left and doesn't seem to be movable, though maybe I am missing something in the files (or a setting in the UI configs)

[Xenich]

Ok, for new players who don't have any real development on the older servers, DDO is still viable when they open up the new 64 bit server (providing it fixes their lag issues which are currently so bad the game is unplayable).

For those of you who have time invested into your characters (ie reincarnations, guild progression, bought account/character upgrades in the store, etc...) It is a big NO NO as the new servers will ONLY be for new characters AND require a VIP sub.

DDO at this point is pointless for old players and the current lag is so bad that numerous issues are occurring ranging from gear/attribute/spells/effects not registering properly, to abilities not firing while mobs beat you down, etc...

Unless they fix this in some reasonable amount of time AND come up with a way to get older accounts over to the new servers, there is going to be a mass exodus (already happening with numerous players stopping subs and shutting down play).

BTW, there has always been lag in the game, but I have never experienced to any consistency and level in all the years that it is now. It is bad, I mean... really bad.

So any of you looking to play, like I said.. New character + VIP is your only reasonable option, but nobody sane is going to throw away their old characters if they have any real time put into them.

[Finarfin]

Hell yeah *****, if the 64 bit servers are online, I'll be playing DilDO again.

[Xenich]

What is funny is there is a video of them talking about the servers and it is with a "purple haired" chick who gives the most ******** explanation of why it is easier for them to track lag.

"you see, the errors of lag are like a jar of candy you see... this one is full like the errors on the 32 bit server... and well, on the 64 bit server its like a jar with less candy, the errors are less and so its easier for us to find the errors because there are less of them!"

[Xenich]

Yeah, well... so far browsing the new 64 bit server feedback, it isn't working. Massive lag still.

Someone pointed out that something they changed not too long ago caused a lot of this massive lag.

All I know is the game is pretty unplayable and I have hung it up indefinitely.

Edit:

I don't think DDO's engine was built for the style of game they have progressed to. It is far too actiony, spamming, etc... as well as the encounter design being focused on AoE grouping everything.

Add in the "end chest" dungeon run style focus for loot and their extremely poor risk vs reward implementation of it and people speed run dungeons in minutes to optimize loot drops.

Another victim of modern MMO retardation.

[Finarfin]

Thought it would make things better but seeing as the server is in Las Vegas, I still lag, even worse than before. Just get a server up and running from Amsterdam, the LOTRO one seems to run from there and it is somewhat fine.

I tried again and all of a sudden, the game feels really smooth (for now) compared to what I had yesterday and a few months before.

[Vergil]

Ok, for new players who don't have any real development on the older servers, DDO is still viable when they open up the new 64 bit server (providing it fixes their lag issues which are currently so bad the game is unplayable).

For those of you who have time invested into your characters (ie reincarnations, guild progression, bought account/character upgrades in the store, etc...) It is a big NO NO as the new servers will ONLY be for new characters AND require a VIP sub.

DDO at this point is pointless for old players and the current lag is so bad that numerous issues are occurring ranging from gear/attribute/spells/effects not registering properly, to abilities not firing while mobs beat you down, etc...

Unless they fix this in some reasonable amount of time AND come up with a way to get older accounts over to the new servers, there is going to be a mass exodus (already happening with numerous players stopping subs and shutting down play).

BTW, there has always been lag in the game, but I have never experienced to any consistency and level in all the years that it is now. It is bad, I mean... really bad.

So any of you looking to play, like I said.. New character + VIP is your only reasonable option, but nobody sane is going to throw away their old characters if they have any real time put into them.

What a massive, massive piece of ****

[Xenich]

Ok, for new players who don't have any real development on the older servers, DDO is still viable when they open up the new 64 bit server (providing it fixes their lag issues which are currently so bad the game is unplayable).

For those of you who have time invested into your characters (ie reincarnations, guild progression, bought account/character upgrades in the store, etc...) It is a big NO NO as the new servers will ONLY be for new characters AND require a VIP sub.

DDO at this point is pointless for old players and the current lag is so bad that numerous issues are occurring ranging from gear/attribute/spells/effects not registering properly, to abilities not firing while mobs beat you down, etc...

Unless they fix this in some reasonable amount of time AND come up with a way to get older accounts over to the new servers, there is going to be a mass exodus (already happening with numerous players stopping subs and shutting down play).

BTW, there has always been lag in the game, but I have never experienced to any consistency and level in all the years that it is now. It is bad, I mean... really bad.

So any of you looking to play, like I said.. New character + VIP is your only reasonable option, but nobody sane is going to throw away their old characters if they have any real time put into them.

What a massive, massive piece of ****

Good game concept, but ruined by ******** mainstream development focus.

If they went back to the old way DDO ran with long dungeons, slower combat, and a focus on the utils and strategy of play rather than "pew pew" AoE design, the game would be good and I doubt they would be having the server issues they are having.

When you consider for instance a ranged repeating crossbow with AoE advancements is shooting out 3 arrows per target into a large AoE group and doing so at numerous times a round, that is a lot of data to be processed in a short amount of time. Then depending on how everything is calculated, compounding all of that with numerous other issues, it all tends to point to the Actiony fast combat style of play that is pushing the limits.

They misunderstand AD&D and many of the classes have become nothing more than different flavors of the same focus, all designed for AoE fast combat which you see in pretty much every MMO because apparently, if people aren't killing legions of mobs at a time, they get bored.

[Xenich]

I also think this is another example of how monetization drives design as well.

Early DDO had it where you would run a dungeon series. Each dungeon in the series had hand placed loot tables for specific names and chests, which would have a chance of appearing. The series had an over all quest reward at the end with a chance of it producing a named reward. After running the dungeon series 3 or so times (can't remember exactly), the loot table for the quest rewards (often 8-10+ items) would open up with a larger selection of the items giving a higher chance to get a specific item.

This had a nice balance.

The dungeons tended to be slower in pace, longer combat (mobs had more health balanced to players so encounters weren't "instant die or kill" scenarios generally) and large number of mobs were encounter specific or due to adds from other mobs either pathing/hearing combat in another areas. On top of this shrines were key in that they were placed strategically so players had to manage resources (or have key classes to open access to them) to get to the next shrine and harder difficulties were designed around this concept as well (less shrines).

Boss encounters were much longer in basic dungeons and had more focus on strategic play over DPS it down style.

With the way they changed them (ie only end chest provides loot), they shortened the dungeons and pushed people to run them over and over a massive amount of times to fight the RNG to get the loot to which the store would sell shards to people so they could "re-roll" the chest.

Add in the very predatory practice of putting the rolls on extreme rarity (people running dungeons 300-400 times and getting no rare loot) and designing the loot where numerous "augments" are now the means to advance it and the entire process becomes speed run the dungeons in a couple of minutes with AoE builds to farm chests.

Honestly, unless they have a serious plan on how to fix all of this (I don't think they do), they are in kind of a pickle and barring some major rewrites to the game (not going to happen), I think they have pushed themselves into a corner.

I think they are in serious trouble.

[Xenich]

Thought it would make things better but seeing as the server is in Las Vegas, I still lag, even worse than before. Just get a server up and running from Amsterdam, the LOTRO one seems to run from there and it is somewhat fine.

I tried again and all of a sudden, the game feels really smooth (for now) compared to what I had yesterday and a few months before.

Different gameplay mechanics though. It doesn't have all the development layers that DDO has in its systems which I think are the biggest drag on the servers when you add in the focus on faster mass combat. These games were never designed to be this way.

[rusty_shackleford]

ddo & lotro are almost entirely written in a custom language that runs in a VM on the server, it's why it doesn't scale and runs like ****. The people who wrote it are probably long gone.

[WaterMage]

I'm thinking if I should buy alchemist for my next life. Any hint?

I have 3 past lives as a wizard (illusionist, force evoker, and pale master), one as a celestial warlock, and two as a sorcerer (two cold), and I am doing my third life as an air sorc. I also have 3 epic past lives and two racial (human). I was looking into the details about alchemists and some build videos. Honestly, it seems like the typical benefits and drawbacks of casters on steroids. For example, casters tend to kill and die very quickly. Multivial seems to be a meteor swarm obtained 6 levels earlier, and immunity bypass 8 levels earlier; however, in exchange for such power, alchemists seem unable to get armor, while Wiz/Sor can get medium armor deep in the EK tree and seem to lack good survivability spells earlier. Spells like Elemental Prod (1d6+2 force) and Caustic Solvent (1d6+2 acid) are single-target, require attack rolls, and feel underwhelming compared to AOE or SLA spam. Do I need high dex to hit with them?

Also seems to struggle more at low levels. No maximized/empowered/magical missile or maximized/empowered/quickened electric loop.

I wonder if I will have to let my hireling carry me till level 6.

And I will have even less survivability at epic levels.

The fantasy of being a magical grenadier, conjuring nasty vials, is interesting. So any hints to maximize my past life experience and make the earlier levels easier? I'm lv 17(air sor) at moment and will probably go alchemist after my next double reincarnation.

EDIT : Look this. Sealed in ember. Reaper 10 in less than 5 minutes with alchemist

[WaterMage]

Any way to make my char use the item/door/wathever instead of attacking the air?

I was playing in reaper and got killed. My hireling got killed and I was out of mana, so I used dimensional door, to retreat to a shrine and revive him, tried to enter it but my char kept attacking the door, used the air savant ability to get distance, lured enemies, tried again. My char didn't entered the door and kept attacking the air. I tried a third time. Same. Attacking the air, but this time I got killed.

This is also annoying in quests like The Spinner of Shadows even outside of reaper difficulty. Instead of picking the blue gem, my char keep attacking an invulnerable enemy.

[rusty_shackleford]

Any way to make my char use the item/door/wathever instead of attacking the air?

I was playing in reaper and got killed. My hireling got killed and I was out of mana, so I used dimensional door, to retreat to a shrine and revive him, tried to enter it but my char kept attacking the door, used the air savant ability to get distance, lured enemies, tried again. My char didn't entered the door and kept attacking the air. I tried a third time. Same. Attacking the air, but this time I got killed.

This is also annoying in quests like The Spinner of Shadows even outside of reaper difficulty. Instead of picking the blue gem, my char keep attacking an invulnerable enemy.

I recall there being a shortcut you could bind that was just interact without attack

[WaterMage]

I unmarked a option which I don't remember in UI. Seems to have fixed.

[WaterMage]

Spent a bit of money with alchemists and potions to speed up low-level boredom. Moments before my reincarnation. 4xp to level cap.



I was not expecting low level to be such a chore; it is much worse than other casters, and yes, in DDO casters only become great at mid-level. Only at level 7 does a Pale Master get Death Aura and an Illusionist, the Phantasmal Killer. I'm not complaining; it makes me appreciate my power when I get it. My hireling's default missile attacks were dishing more damage than my maximized vials. 

[rusty_shackleford]

When I played I found alchemists to be the strongest class I tried by far. Don't know if they made any changes. But it was a very high APM class.
Iirc it starts being good when you get the flasks from your talents, the SLA ones.

[WaterMage]

When I said that they are atrocious bad at low level, I was thinking in level 1/2. My hirelings melee was doing more damage than my maximized quicken vials.


But by level four, you can get 3 vial SLAs, and 3 maximized empowered quicken SLAs that recharge in four seconds are very powerful. I used the most expensive potion of XP in the store. I did Isle of Dread mostly on normal with some quests on hard and was OHKilling mobs with a triple vial quickly got me XP necessary to level up, and I reached level 6 before even spending 2 and a half hours of my potion, by doing one saga virtually entirely on normal, I already reached mid levels. After two more quests, got to lv 7 with near 3 hours left of my six-hour XP boost potion. Now at lv 7, I have powerful SLA single target nukes that I can virutally use every single second and two large AoE spells, one of them being cast at caster level 11 with feats + EE.

[Xenich]

Last time I played the lag was ******** and drop rates for rares in Myth Drannor were extremely predatory (lottery level absurd). Did they fix that or are they still pulling the same crap with new expansions?

I saw there is a new expansion, but I am hesitant to dive back in. I think my character has around 14+ PLs, but I kind of burned out. The game would be more interesting if we could get at least 3-4 people to play together to do the raid content. I could solo most raids early on, but several were annoying due to mechanics that really need a couple extra people to avoid having to "build" specifically for those raids (VON, PON, etc...).

Last I played I was working on my guild levels solo, but it got a little... tiring (I think I got it up to around the mid 40's so far) and Reapers exp started to slow once I had around 20ish reaper points.

As for the caster builds, it had been a while since I really played them, they can be pretty rough until you get some PLs and some gear collected. I have it a bit easier due to that (starting AC, health, spell points, etc...), but also due to the fact that I had played for so many years and picked up the expansions, so I have quite a few of the gold seal hirelings and can run near a full party to balance out various weaknesses of my build early on.

Are people interested in grouping any? @Kalarion , you play this at all?

[rusty_shackleford]

the lag was ********

The server infrastructure got moved to 64bit so it might have helped, but I suspect it probably didn't because the server software for DDO(& lotro) is special in the same way the kids that ride the short bus are.
It has a custom scripting language/VM that nobody working at SSG knows how to modify let alone improve, anyone who did is long gone

Basically the entire thing is single-threaded because it was created during the era when everyone thought processing power would keep going up instead of MOAR COREZ. Consider various other mid-00s games which still kinda run like ****

[Xenich]

the lag was ********

The server infrastructure got moved to 64bit so it might have helped, but I suspect it probably didn't because the server software for DDO(& lotro) is special in the same way the kids that ride the short bus are.
It has a custom scripting language/VM that nobody working at SSG knows how to modify let alone improve, anyone who did is long gone

Basically the entire thing is single-threaded because it was created during the era when everyone thought processing power would keep going up instead of MOAR COREZ. Consider various other mid-00s games which still kinda run like ****

This is one of those games I wish private servers would have took off with. I think a lot of the problems they have are with pushing the game to be too actiony. I think I mentioned it already in the past here, but I think if they slowed down combat, increased HP on the mobs/player and turned the game more into a EQ like battle in terms of time and progression, a lot of the "lag" aspect would go away. When repeater xbows are shooting out a ton of bolts per round, it just gets silly.

It and LotRO would be fantastic games if there were private servers with some serious tweaking (getting rid of all the PTW design and crap).

[rusty_shackleford]

This is one of those games I wish private servers would have took off with. I think a lot of the problems they have are with pushing the game to be too actiony. I think I mentioned it already in the past here, but I think if they slowed down combat, increased HP on the mobs/player and turned the game more into a EQ like battle in terms of time and progression, a lot of the "lag" aspect would go away. When repeater xbows are shooting out a ton of bolts per round, it just gets silly.

I actually thought it was a very good real-time adaptation of the 3.5e (homebrew) ruleset

[WaterMage]

I actually thought it was a very good real-time adaptation of the 3.5e (homebrew) ruleset

Their homebrew stuff is great. For eg, warlocks having part of their Eldritich Blast damage affected by their pact, I loved it. It made leveling a Carceri WLK and a Celestial different experiences and quests which I struggled as one, I had a breeze with the other. Or the elemental apotheosis for savants, it is great. Or how they implemented stop time in ED, vastly different than P&P.

Alchemist, I honestly didn't tried earlier because I only used a bit in Pathfinder Kingmaker on my companions, this DDO alchemist is much better than Paizo alchemist at least so far. Got to lv 9 today and my xp potion ran off

y. I think I mentioned it already in the past here, but I think if they slowed down combat, increased HP on the mobs/player and turned the game more into a EQ like battle in terms of time and progression

What wouldn't work. Look how many enemies you fight in DDO. Every quest will take forever or... Basically everyone will be either triple phantasmal killer illusionist with greater color spray or sneaky assassinate builds.

[rusty_shackleford]

Alchemist, I honestly didn't tried earlier because I only used a bit in Pathfinder Kingmaker on my companions, this DDO alchemist is much better than Paizo alchemist at least so far. Got to lv 9 today and my xp potion ran off

IIRC the biggest issue I had with alchemist is being a healer. It's doable, but you have to be very careful of potion arcs(One of the metamagics makes them fly in a higher arc, do NOT use this one, there's also one that makes them fly faster, you want to use that one)
But if you're not grouping that's not much of an issue.

It's probably below a sorc in raw damage, but it has a ton of utility