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Grimoire - Bradleyesque DRPG

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WhiteShark
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Grimoire - Bradleyesque DRPG

Post by WhiteShark »

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  • Useful Info: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/gri ... in.129093/
  • Cheat Engine: pretty easy to give yourself fixed numbers for your bonus point rolls during character creation, recommended if you don't like rerolling a bunch.
  • Speedhack: works, useful for some of the slow animations like Little Rosy flying in.
The UI makes playing the game take as long as making it did.

No, I'm serious, it's bad. Never before have I played a game where casting a spell is such a laborious task. Mouse to character, click action button, click 'spells', mouse over to menu that has just popped up, click school, click spell, mouse down a little, click power level, down some more, click 'cast', mouse back to character, click target. Six clicks and a lot of mouse movement to cast one spell, then repeat for every caster in the party. And of course, you probably can't or won't cast the same spell every turn, so you'll have to repeat all that every turn. That failure of design is so enormous it makes the inventory system look snappy and intuitive in comparison.

The multiclass (misnomer, should be called class change) system is incredibly autistic. You keep everything but your attributes and unspent skill points when you multiclass -- even unspent attribute points are saved -- which means that you'll want to multiclass as much as you possibly can while not spending any attribute points beyond the minimum necessary to reach the attribute requirements for your target class. The limitation is that each class has only three options to which it may change and one may never return to a class he's already been. Thus, a player who desires to play optimally must create a multiclass path that hits as many classes as possible, without repeats, while also ending on a desirable class, for all eight of his characters. This is where I almost quit before I began, but instead I saved myself the headache and made six of my party members carbon copies of each other with the same intended path.

The game could have been described as unforgiving had it not featured quicksave/quickload. 0 HP is dead and there doesn't seem to be a way to revive a dead party member without clerical magic that can be acquired at level 6 at the earliest. The poison status may as well be death for most characters, although at least you can learn Neutralize Poison at level 4 -- again, provided you have a cleric. There also doesn't seem to be a way to roll new characters partway into the game the way you can in many other DRPGs. The net effect of these design choices is that the player has little choice but to save constantly and load frequently, killing all tension and turning the experience into (more of) a slog.

The above is all the more aggravating because it's otherwise a carefully crafted and interesting game. There are secrets and puzzles galore. The game world is huge. The old school style is charming. I have fun searching for hidden buttons and illusory walls (except when I trigger a random encounter by turning :headbang: ), reading inscriptions, testing items on objects, entering words into the text parser, and so on. The combat itself is fine aside from the aforementioned UI issues, though why this sort of DRPG where you target whole groups of enemies indscriminately and crits are insta-kills is oft described as "tactical" is beyond me.

Overall I give it a conflicted not-sure-if-I-will-continue out of 5.
Last edited by WhiteShark on April 7th, 2023, 11:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by WhiteShark »

Ah, I forgot to mention: in addition to the fact that you can't generate new PCs midgame, you also can't leave any of your guys somewhere temporarily. This means that to take advantage of recruitable NPCs you must either begin with fewer than eight PCs or permanently dismiss one of them midgame. Neither is appealing to me.
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Post by Atlantico »

Sounds about what I would expect from Cleve's one-man project. DRPGs are very difficult to get just right, though I feel Dungeon Master hit it right from the start, those following DM have failed more often than not.

Ironically the magic system in Dungeon Master made the player click like five to six times to cast a spell, but it was still very elegant and simple.

Click mage/priest, click power rune, click three runes, click execute. This could take more time for complex spells or really short for spells like Fireball which was the fourth rune each time, so in a panic you could just fast click 4-4-4-4 and boom. You could also prepare a rune sequence before going into battle and that could be convenient.

That was a game that was made in 1987 and fit on a single sided 2.5" DD MFD, but it had the advantage of being made by two designers and one artist. A one man band is a tall order.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Wonder how many more copies he would have sold if he just dedicated a release to putting tooltips on every UI element
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Post by WhiteShark »

rusty_shackleford wrote: April 7th, 2023, 11:22
Wonder how many more copies he would have sold if he just dedicated a release to putting tooltips on every UI element
There are tooltips, which helps, but it doesn't solve all the weirdness with how you accomplish things in the UI. For example, to see an item's stats, one assumes that you would have a character use Assay and then click the item, but actually it's almost the reverse: you have the character set to Assay, then you pick up the item and hover it over the Assay icon next to the character portrait. Same with Looking at an item, which gives you a text description instead of game stats.
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Post by Lich »

How you perform actions with the UI felt inconsistent, as if there was no logic behind how the UI was organized. And basic actions require way too many clicks.
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Post by Emphyrio »

I could not find the fun in Wizardry and I could not find the fun in Grimoire either.
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Post by KnightoftheWind »

The only good DRPGs I've played so far are Shining in the Darkness, Shining the Holy Ark and Arcana.
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Post by WhiteShark »

For me the pinnacle of the genre is still the Etrian Odyssey series, though I'm not as well versed as some in DRPGs. I've yet to experience another DRPG with combat that lives up to EO's. Might & Magic: World of Xeen probably comes in second for me as I greatly enjoyed the exploration and the combat, while simple, was quick and felt good. In theory I think the skill system of Grimoire is interesting and adds to the exploration element but it's hard to tell which skills have any relevance without checking outside information.

EDIT: For anyone who likes EO-style DRPGs, there's a rough little indie game on Steam called Infinite Adventures that's actually pretty fun. The art is western-animesque and not very high quality but the story is somewhat enjoyable for the fact that it's based on someone's D&D campaign and the combat and character building are fun.
Last edited by WhiteShark on April 7th, 2023, 14:13, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

the genre begins & ends with wiz8
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Post by KnightoftheWind »

WhiteShark wrote: April 7th, 2023, 14:10
For me the pinnacle of the genre is still the Etrian Odyssey series, though I'm not as well versed as some in DRPGs. I've yet to experience another DRPG with combat that lives up to EO's. Might & Magic: World of Xeen probably comes in second for me as I greatly enjoyed the exploration and the combat, while simple, was quick and felt good. In theory I think the skill system of Grimoire is interesting and adds to the exploration element but it's hard to tell which skills have any relevance without checking outside information.

EDIT: For anyone who likes EO-style DRPGs, there's a rough little indie game on Steam called Infinite Adventures that's actually pretty fun. The art is western-animesque and not very high quality but the story is somewhat enjoyable for the fact that it's based on someone's D&D campaign and the combat and character building are fun.
I believe remasters of three of the Etrian Odyssey games are coming out this year, I've never played them so I'm eager to give them a shot. I also heard "Stranger of Sword City" is quite good as well.
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Post by Atlantico »

rusty_shackleford wrote: April 7th, 2023, 14:12
the genre begins & ends with wiz8
It has that incredibly janky early 3D charm to it, but pixel art >> janky 3D

Ishar 2 is the absolute pinnacle of the genre
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Post by Gregz »

Grimwah!
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Post by Ranselknulf »

I probably should try this at some point.

Patiently awaiting my physical backer rewards.
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Post by Tweed »

It's gud.
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Post by somerandomdude »

A party of 4-6 works perfectly fine in Grimoire, and considering that the exp gains are split between the party, 4-6 members will have higher levels and stats, and better equipment. My mages were multi-classed and wearing plate armor, and were nearly as tanky as my melee characters. I don't think there's any spells worth learning on any of the magic classes beyond level 12 or so, and if you multi-class characters at level 8, you'll be able to move through quite a few classes and pile on stats, and be considerably stronger than a single class that's higher leveled. Quality pays off over quantity in this game for sure.
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Post by William »

Any reviews about story and writing?