How to maximize your enjoyment of RPGs

[rusty_shackleford]

While going thru my yewtoob history to clean it up, I came across videos I watched from one `micah_raygun_` and it reminded me of a thread I intended to make. I'll include the videos in a spoiler at the bottom if you want to listen to them while doing something else.

---

Now, this thread might seem a bit silly at first. Maximizing enjoyment of video games? I already know how to play them!
Are you certain? Even if modern designers don't know it, they're directly copying from designers who copied from those that were designing around many of these principles

I have been playing RPGs for a long time and I wanted to share some tips on how I've come to play RPGs over the years. Most of these were habits I had to break.

1. Don't meta-game. Don't ask for tips, don't ask which build is the best, don't ask how to do X unless you're truly stuck. Don't look it up, don't search it on the internet, do not ask your friends. Most of these rules will go back to this, but it's worth stating again and being more specific.
2. Don't look up builds. Outside of very certain RPGs like Knights of the Chalice 2, or perhaps the Pathfinder games on Unfair, these games were not designed around optimized builds. When creating a character, I will take a preset if one is available or come up with an idea and create a build for it. It's fine to not be optimized, most games are designed around a non-optimized character being able to complete it.
3. Roleplay. I was surprised to learn that most people playing RPGs don't roleplay as their character. Obviously you aren't literally your character, you do not need to hold your breath if your character is swimming. The goal is to break down the barrier separating you from him, to create a gestalt. It's fun! Having trouble getting in the head of your character? Start writing log(journal) entries from the POV of him while playing. You should share these.
4. Don't use 'mercenary'(custom) companions if you're offered story companions. These are often far more powerful than story companions due to allowing much finer customization. The designers probably expected you to use the story companions when they were designing the game.
5. Don't use external maps. I don't care if you're playing Witcher 3, close that browser tab with the map and all the markers. I make an exception for games that expect me to map by hand just because I do not find that activity to be enjoyable, so that's up to you.
6. Don't savescum. Unless you feel a mechanic is actually unfair(with good reason), only reload the game when you get a gameover or encounter a significant bug. It really should be called 'loadscumming', feel free to save as much as you want, you never know when you might lose power, hit a major bug, or have the game crash.
7. You don't need to see all the content. RPGs are not themeparks, you do not need to ride every ride. You can even come back later, maybe right after if it was good enough, maybe a few years down the line when you've forgotten a lot of it. Additionally, trying to see all the content often involves savescumming, abusing game mechanics, or meta-information and is therefore a violation of the above guidelines! If you start seeing a game as a checklist, consider this guideline.

Selection_026.webp

micah_raygun_'s videos:

► Show Spoiler

Feel free to suggest some other advice/guidelines you guys use when playing RPGs

[rusty_shackleford]

Forgot to add the very important

• Don't abuse unintended game mechanics, it's just cheating. If you find yourself abusing some game mechanic that is obviously an oversight, you're cheating. I have no idea why players do this in single player games, perhaps it feels more 'legitimate' than opening the console and entering some cheats? Elder Scrolls games are notoriously & obviously full of these, either fix them with mods or avoid those mechanics. Remember, when you cheat in a singleplayer game the only person being cheated is the player.

[Tadeusz]

Nice list! I think it can be summed up as "go blind your first playthrough". If you liked the game then you can do a second completionist playthrough to see all the content and do an optimized build.
There are some notable exceptions to the rules though - some games don't allow respecs so it's better to learn about mechanics beforehand because being softlocked isn't fun. Gothic 2 is notable in that regard as a player can make a jack-of-all-trades build that won't be viable even in the mid-game.

[TKVNC]

There's a few things I may save scum to this day, one is Viking Conquest, being beaten and losing unique gear, that and -sometimes- Bandit camps. Why?

On almost every mod - when you get beaten - if you hunt down the victors and beat them, you get your items back. Not so for Viking Conquest. Once it's gone from your inventory, it's gone forever. Which is fine for generic gear, arguably it's not even an issue - but for unique one of a kind items, it's just stupid. That said, you could just give the gear to a follower, I guess.

As for Bandit camps - the event ends as soon as you fall unconscious - even if all your men are still going. That said, I guess you could just stay back.

[TheEmptyRoad]

I will say one scenario I absolutely did not feel bad about loadscumming was the **** 'Protect the Cleric' fight in Act 2 of BG3. When you 'lose' in a cutscene if the Cleric falls unconscious and the Dastardly Villain just up and picks her up and flys off. That whole thing REEKED of railroading and was jarringly noticeable compared to every other encounter up to that point. The game did not take into account that 1.) All of my team were still up and fighting and 2.) Dumbass McFuckface was in NO position to be going anywhere -much less bending down and picking up a whole-*** person- without getting shanked or shot given everyone's relative positions. Dude would've eaten multiple attacks of opportunity that would've wiped out what was left of his health. Absolute ********.

Barring any scenarios like that however, I do try to keep to this general mindset. My first playthroughs are always all over the place when it comes to builds and outcomes.
My first playthrough of Wrathfinder I played a Wizard who thought he wasn't worthy of Divine Power and pursued the Lich Mythic Path, not because he wanted to be a Lich, but because Necromancy and an Undead Army are really good at killing Demons. Late-game he abandoned that nonsense to pursue the Path of the Legend and renounce all his Mythic Powers(TM) because of the Dark Things that began to be expected of him by his Lich Mentor. Eventually saved the day without losing his soul to a phylactery. Good times.

[Unhelpful Contrarian]

While going thru my yewtoob history to clean it up, I came across videos I watched from one `micah_raygun_` and it reminded me of a thread I intended to make. I'll include the videos in a spoiler at the bottom if you want to listen to them while doing something else.

---

Now, this thread might seem a bit silly at first. Maximizing enjoyment of video games? I already know how to play them!
Are you certain? Even if modern designers don't know it, they're directly copying from designers who copied from those that were designing around many of these principles

I have been playing RPGs for a long time and I wanted to share some tips on how I've come to play RPGs over the years. Most of these were habits I had to break.

1. Don't meta-game. Don't ask for tips, don't ask which build is the best, don't ask how to do X unless you're truly stuck. Don't look it up, don't search it on the internet, do not ask your friends. Most of these rules will go back to this, but it's worth stating again and being more specific.
2. Don't look up builds. Outside of very certain RPGs like Knights of the Chalice 2, or perhaps the Pathfinder games on Unfair, these games were not designed around optimized builds. When creating a character, I will take a preset if one is available or come up with an idea and create a build for it. It's fine to not be optimized, most games are designed around a non-optimized character being able to complete it.
3. Roleplay. I was surprised to learn that most people playing RPGs don't roleplay as their character. Obviously you aren't literally your character, you do not need to hold your breath if your character is swimming. The goal is to break down the barrier separating you from him, to create a gestalt. It's fun! Having trouble getting in the head of your character? Start writing log(journal) entries from the POV of him while playing. You should share these.
4. Don't use 'mercenary'(custom) companions if you're offered story companions. These are often far more powerful than story companions due to allowing much finer customization. The designers probably expected you to use the story companions when they were designing the game.
5. Don't use external maps. I don't care if you're playing Witcher 3, close that browser tab with the map and all the markers. I make an exception for games that expect me to map by hand just because I do not find that activity to be enjoyable, so that's up to you.
6. Don't savescum. Unless you feel a mechanic is actually unfair(with good reason), only reload the game when you get a gameover or encounter a significant bug. It really should be called 'loadscumming', feel free to save as much as you want, you never know when you might lose power, hit a major bug, or have the game crash.
7. You don't need to see all the content. RPGs are not themeparks, you do not need to ride every ride. You can even come back later, maybe right after if it was good enough, maybe a few years down the line when you've forgotten a lot of it. Additionally, trying to see all the content often involves savescumming, abusing game mechanics, or meta-information and is therefore a violation of the above guidelines! If you start seeing a game as a checklist, consider this guideline.

Selection_026.webp

micah_raygun_'s videos:

► Show Spoiler

Feel free to suggest some other advice/guidelines you guys use when playing RPGs

Disagree with anything on the list except for 3 and 4.

[rusty_shackleford]

Disagree with anything on the list except for 3 and 4.

You're allowed to be wrong

[J1M]

I find to enjoy RPGs one must not try to play them concurrently.

[Aryan Spirit]

I agree with everything except the one about not using custom characters instead of the included companion characters. Biggest reason is that I don't want want to use their typically woke characters. Or if they aren't woke, they're less appealing than a custom character. I don't metagame the custom characters, I just don't want to have a stunning and brave ****** dwarfette or a furry in my party.

[Oyster Sauce]

-stealth is gay
-non-lethal options are gay and you will have less fun if you use them

[Oyster Sauce]

-stealth is gay
-non-lethal options are gay and you will have less fun if you use them

Speech-check based characters too. "Yeah I built my guy to not play the game!"

[ArcaneLurker]

-non-lethal options are gay and you will have less fun if you use them

But then how are you supposed to kidnap and enslave them?

[gerey]

cRPGs exist to be complained about.

EDIT: To expand on this line of thought, if you're having fun playing a cRPG you're doing it wrong.

[Nemesis]

Obviously you aren't literally your character, you do not need to hold your breath if your character is swimming.

lol

[DoubleOO7]

Pro tip: don't play games made by *******

[Oyster Sauce]

Obviously you aren't literally your character, you do not need to hold your breath if your character is swimming.

lol

I actually do this sometimes

[KOS-MOS]

cRPGs exist to be complained about.

EDIT: To expand on this line of thought, if you're having fun playing a cRPG you're doing it wrong.

I'm having fun playing cRPG

[Unhelpful Contrarian]

EDIT: To expand on this line of thought, if you're having fun playing a cRPG you're doing it wrong.

That sounds awful.

[Unhelpful Contrarian]

Disagree with anything on the list except for 3 and 4.

You're allowed to be wrong

I guess we all can’t have a masochistic need to have zero enjoyment playing RPG’s.

[rusty_shackleford]

Disagree with anything on the list except for 3 and 4.

You're allowed to be wrong

I guess we all can’t have a masochistic need to have zero enjoyment playing RPG’s.

Just you

[Vaako]

Forgot to add the very important

• Don't abuse unintended game mechanics, it's just cheating. If you find yourself abusing some game mechanic that is obviously an oversight, you're cheating. I have no idea why players do this in single player games, perhaps it feels more 'legitimate' than opening the console and entering some cheats? Elder Scrolls games are notoriously & obviously full of these, either fix them with mods or avoid those mechanics. Remember, when you cheat in a singleplayer game the only person being cheated is the player.

Thats a little broad abusing stupd AI and sitting on an unreachable place sniping Umbra dead or pulling him into guards is unintended gameplay by the devs. And alone that is fun for people not playing the game like the developers want you to play the game. If you would do everything by the books you would also have to finish every quest in Oblivion and then certain weapons would have weight, what they didnt have as long as they were a quest item. This "outsmarting" of the devs is fun or when you experiment with spell making or alchemy in these games.

Thats what makes these games so fun to replay too. Sadly most new games these are so balanced to death and dont leave much room for freedom, where everything has invisible walls so you just cant reach certain places, what really takes the fun out of these games for me.

Obviously there is a limit, doublication glitches, glitches which make you immortal or one shot everything make the game balance completly no fun at all. And are merely good for testing things.

[Acrux]

you would also have to finish every quest in Oblivion

Incorrect. In fact, rusty included an image in his original post where the Elder Scrolls instruction manual specifically says not to try and do everything.

and then certain weapons would have weight, what they didnt have as long as they were a quest item

That's just flat-out cheating.

[nullSector]

Obviously you aren't literally your character, you do not need to hold your breath if your character is swimming.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Don't look up builds.

No. I need to look up builds so that I can know beforehand whether or not the playstyle I want and think might be possible is actually possible and I am not about to get conned by yet another fake promise and invest/save my points and currency for a playstyle that I will never be able to actualize.

[rusty_shackleford]

Don't look up builds.

No. I need to look up builds so that I can know beforehand whether or not the playstyle I want and think might be possible is actually possible and I am not about to get conned by yet another fake promise and invest/save my points and currency for a playstyle that I will never be able to actualize.

There was an implicit "learn to live with what you get"

This will help you in more than just games when you get as old as I!

[Vaako]

you would also have to finish every quest in Oblivion

Incorrect. In fact, rusty included an image in his original post where the Elder Scrolls instruction manual specifically says not to try and do everything.

and then certain weapons would have weight, what they didnt have as long as they were a quest item

That's just flat-out cheating.

No you are incorrect, since you just took that out of context.

[Trickster]

Discussion about certain game, fan-arts, youtube videos and all that **** usually full of HUGE spoilers about the game plot. Avoid fan-space at all cost if you don't want to ruin your emotional expedience.

[Unhelpful Contrarian]

Discussion about certain game, fan-arts, youtube videos and all that **** usually full of HUGE spoilers about the game plot. Avoid fan-space at all cost if you don't want to ruin your emotional expedience.

The sliver lining is that games are so **** now that I almost never have to worry or care about such spoilers.

[Vergil]

You're not my boss

[ThulsaDoomer]

Yeah, I'm gonna take RPG advice from a guy who claims he loves the maze like wandering hell that is Daggerfall dungeon design. I'm certain he is sane and doesn't at all have an objectively dogshit opinion.

I suppose I should expand that while Daggerfall had many interesting ideas, its execution was terrible. Bethesda went back to handcrafted dungeons because it made sense. People want to play through something that had thought put into it, and not proc-gen trash that is a poor excuse to avoid putting in effort. I despise mazes in video games, and a lot of old school design had this bizarre obsession with mazes and useless or almost no maps to help.