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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Auld_SnawBeard wrote: ↑ May 11th, 2025, 16:33
I do believe the gramatically correct pronoun for an unspecified person is "he" in the English language.
TLDR is, it depends.
rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ October 27th, 2024, 10:06
Roguey wrote: ↑ October 27th, 2024, 00:42
I was using it for people of unknown gender in the 90s.
The singular indefinite they was used for a person of unknown gender for a very long time. Consider:
"Someone left their wallet."
If you knew that it was Whiteshark's wallet, you'd say: "WhiteShark left his wallet."
The modern nu-singular they is a definite they: "WhiteShark left their wallet."

The "akshually, singular they has always been used!" crowd is purposely conflating these two.


If you're having trouble understanding the difference, know that this is something that tripped up a bunch of style guides, and not even for pozzed reasons β€” chicago styleguide went back and suggested against using it in the 'modern' way after first recommending to do so.
https://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/qa ... q0018.html


Image
The Builder, 1927, Volume 4

The person who lost their keys is specific, but not definite.
The reason you'd see "he/him" used in, for example, the AD&D PHB was because the reader is specific and definite. This is despite the author not knowing who the reader is, exactly. It is specific to the reader's context.

:toot:
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Post by Auld_SnawBeard »

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ May 11th, 2025, 16:39
Auld_SnawBeard wrote: ↑ May 11th, 2025, 16:33
I do believe the gramatically correct pronoun for an unspecified person is "he" in the English language.
TLDR is, it depends.
rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ October 27th, 2024, 10:06
Roguey wrote: ↑ October 27th, 2024, 00:42
I was using it for people of unknown gender in the 90s.
The singular indefinite they was used for a person of unknown gender for a very long time. Consider:
"Someone left their wallet."
If you knew that it was Whiteshark's wallet, you'd say: "WhiteShark left his wallet."
The modern nu-singular they is a definite they: "WhiteShark left their wallet."

The "akshually, singular they has always been used!" crowd is purposely conflating these two.


If you're having trouble understanding the difference, know that this is something that tripped up a bunch of style guides, and not even for pozzed reasons β€” chicago styleguide went back and suggested against using it in the 'modern' way after first recommending to do so.
https://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/qa ... q0018.html


Image
The Builder, 1927, Volume 4

The person who lost their keys is specific, but not definite.
The reason you'd see "he/him" used in, for example, the AD&D PHB was because the reader is specific and definite. This is despite the author not knowing who the reader is, exactly. It is specific to the reader's context.

:toot:
Good point. The examples given all refer to an un-specified person's ownership of something tho. Are there examples of this that doesn't include ownership? I can't remember what the reaction-dialogue said exactly anymore. I'll take a screenshot when next I get it and we can ponder the correct grammar for it with a better foundation.
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Post by orinEsque »

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ May 11th, 2025, 16:39
Auld_SnawBeard wrote: ↑ May 11th, 2025, 16:33
I do believe the gramatically correct pronoun for an unspecified person is "he" in the English language.
TLDR is, it depends.
rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ October 27th, 2024, 10:06
Roguey wrote: ↑ October 27th, 2024, 00:42
I was using it for people of unknown gender in the 90s.
The singular indefinite they was used for a person of unknown gender for a very long time. Consider:
"Someone left their wallet."
If you knew that it was Whiteshark's wallet, you'd say: "WhiteShark left his wallet."
The modern nu-singular they is a definite they: "WhiteShark left their wallet."

The "akshually, singular they has always been used!" crowd is purposely conflating these two.


If you're having trouble understanding the difference, know that this is something that tripped up a bunch of style guides, and not even for pozzed reasons β€” chicago styleguide went back and suggested against using it in the 'modern' way after first recommending to do so.
https://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/qa ... q0018.html


Image
The Builder, 1927, Volume 4

The person who lost their keys is specific, but not definite.
The reason you'd see "he/him" used in, for example, the AD&D PHB was because the reader is specific and definite. This is despite the author not knowing who the reader is, exactly. It is specific to the reader's context.

:toot:
it seems "they" assigned for unknown people was never really an issue until ****** trooned out, clearly.
Last edited by orinEsque on May 12th, 2025, 00:30, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by PixiGreen »

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ May 11th, 2025, 16:39
Auld_SnawBeard wrote: ↑ May 11th, 2025, 16:33
I do believe the gramatically correct pronoun for an unspecified person is "he" in the English language.
TLDR is, it depends.
rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ October 27th, 2024, 10:06
Roguey wrote: ↑ October 27th, 2024, 00:42
I was using it for people of unknown gender in the 90s.
The singular indefinite they was used for a person of unknown gender for a very long time. Consider:
"Someone left their wallet."
If you knew that it was Whiteshark's wallet, you'd say: "WhiteShark left his wallet."
The modern nu-singular they is a definite they: "WhiteShark left their wallet."

The "akshually, singular they has always been used!" crowd is purposely conflating these two.


If you're having trouble understanding the difference, know that this is something that tripped up a bunch of style guides, and not even for pozzed reasons β€” chicago styleguide went back and suggested against using it in the 'modern' way after first recommending to do so.
https://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/qa ... q0018.html


Image
The Builder, 1927, Volume 4

The person who lost their keys is specific, but not definite.
The reason you'd see "he/him" used in, for example, the AD&D PHB was because the reader is specific and definite. This is despite the author not knowing who the reader is, exactly. It is specific to the reader's context.

:toot:
Funny enough, nobody can point out when this started. Usually, it is just stated "it was always like this" or "for a very long time". Then examples come from either modern news or 1 (one) sentence a century ago that could as well be an error in a transcript or a speaker's mistake.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

PixiGreen wrote: ↑ May 12th, 2025, 12:41
rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ May 11th, 2025, 16:39
Auld_SnawBeard wrote: ↑ May 11th, 2025, 16:33
I do believe the gramatically correct pronoun for an unspecified person is "he" in the English language.
TLDR is, it depends.
rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ October 27th, 2024, 10:06


The singular indefinite they was used for a person of unknown gender for a very long time. Consider:
"Someone left their wallet."
If you knew that it was Whiteshark's wallet, you'd say: "WhiteShark left his wallet."
The modern nu-singular they is a definite they: "WhiteShark left their wallet."

The "akshually, singular they has always been used!" crowd is purposely conflating these two.


If you're having trouble understanding the difference, know that this is something that tripped up a bunch of style guides, and not even for pozzed reasons β€” chicago styleguide went back and suggested against using it in the 'modern' way after first recommending to do so.
https://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/qa ... q0018.html


Image
The Builder, 1927, Volume 4

The person who lost their keys is specific, but not definite.
The reason you'd see "he/him" used in, for example, the AD&D PHB was because the reader is specific and definite. This is despite the author not knowing who the reader is, exactly. It is specific to the reader's context.

:toot:
Funny enough, nobody can point out when this started. Usually, it is just stated "it was always like this" or "for a very long time". Then examples come from either modern news or 1 (one) sentence a century ago that could as well be an error in a transcript or a speaker's mistake.
It's two different singular theys being confused(on purpose)
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Post by orinEsque »

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ May 12th, 2025, 12:42
PixiGreen wrote: ↑ May 12th, 2025, 12:41
rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ May 11th, 2025, 16:39

TLDR is, it depends.
Funny enough, nobody can point out when this started. Usually, it is just stated "it was always like this" or "for a very long time". Then examples come from either modern news or 1 (one) sentence a century ago that could as well be an error in a transcript or a speaker's mistake.
It's two different singular theys being confused(on purpose)
Wait a sec the "they" here might be referring to the keys...
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Post by Auld_SnawBeard »

orinEsque wrote: ↑ May 12th, 2025, 13:08
rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ May 12th, 2025, 12:42
PixiGreen wrote: ↑ May 12th, 2025, 12:41


Funny enough, nobody can point out when this started. Usually, it is just stated "it was always like this" or "for a very long time". Then examples come from either modern news or 1 (one) sentence a century ago that could as well be an error in a transcript or a speaker's mistake.
It's two different singular theys being confused(on purpose)
Wait a sec the "they" here might be referring to the keys...
That is the rule in my native language. "Their" pointing to the gender of the object of ownership rather than the owner. I'm unsure whether this is the rule for English or if it just correlates to the examples I could think of. But I didn't bring it up because I'm not sure of the phrasing in the dialogue-box, which may render the point moot.

In my native language you can see it expressed clearly because we gender items. While a wallet remains ungendered and use "their" like in english, a bike is gendered male so "his" is used even when the owner is a woman. A bucket is gendered female so we use "hers" even when the owner is a man. My language is in some ways closely related to English, which makes it likely it's the same there. But since all items (that I can think of) are ungendered in English it's harder to see the rule expressed clearly.
Last edited by Auld_SnawBeard on May 12th, 2025, 13:46, edited 4 times in total.
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Post by Auld_SnawBeard »

I fear coming off as oddly obsessive of the topic doing this, but I went back to a relevant save to provoke the dialogue-box' appearance. I figure it's better to discuss this with factuality in mind if it's going to be a topic.
.
Screenshot 2025-05-12 160101.png
.
My argument is that when Lae'zel is assumed to be of an unspecified gender (for ease of coding) the correct pronoun is "he".

What I didn't say (so as not to come off as pedantic) is that I thought it would be worthwhile to change the word because "they" in this context is woke-fuckery the bastards have managed to pollute our language with, with the express purpose of anchoring their fanaticism in our culture. There are no stronger mechanism to change culture than to change the language, which is why it infuriates me when I see or hear it. Please don't take that to mean I think I'm owed someone else changing the sentence because of my feelings or reasoning, I accept a no without question and whatever the reason (if any at all).


Grok 3 has an interesting comment on the subject. Be sure to read the second part as well if at all, as that's where the crux of the matter lies (in my opinion at least).

Asked with Think enabled:
"Assuming English gramatical rules. A person of unknown gender (but which I know have a gender, it just isn't known to me what the gender is) rolls some dice. The person gets a result and it's presented to me with the sentence "... rolled 11." What word does "..." substitute for?

Also, has this word and/or rule changed over the last 50 years?"


Grok 3's answer:
β–Ί Show Spoiler

While one should be wary that Grok 3 makes mistakes, they can usually be exposed by questioning his answers. I don't take what he says here as a definite source, but I think it's an interesting point of view and which correlates well with my personal experience over the years.

Of course the above exposes my point of view when it comes to language authorities. I believe they went from being a preserver of culture to become a destroyer of culture as they've gone through the process of wokism. Thus no authority at all, but an enemy that not only should be disregarded but rather actively fought.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Question for modders: is there any way to access the scripting from the UI elements and retrieve the gender?
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Post by PixiGreen »

Auld_SnawBeard wrote: ↑ May 12th, 2025, 14:47
I fear coming off as oddly obsessive of the topic doing this, but I went back to a relevant save to provoke the dialogue-box' appearance. I figure it's better to discuss this with factuality in mind if it's going to be a topic.
.

Image

.
My argument is that when Lae'zel is assumed to be of an unspecified gender (for ease of coding) the correct pronoun is "he".

What I didn't say (so as not to come off as pedantic) is that I thought it would be worthwhile to change the word because "they" in this context is woke-fuckery the bastards have managed to pollute our language with, with the express purpose of anchoring their fanaticism in our culture. There are no stronger mechanism to change culture than to change the language, which is why it infuriates me when I see or hear it. Please don't take that to mean I think I'm owed someone else changing the sentence because of my feelings or reasoning, I accept a no without question and whatever the reason (if any at all).


Grok 3 has an interesting comment on the subject. Be sure to read the second part as well if at all, as that's where the crux of the matter lies (in my opinion at least).

Asked with Think enabled:
"Assuming English gramatical rules. A person of unknown gender (but which I know have a gender, it just isn't known to me what the gender is) rolls some dice. The person gets a result and it's presented to me with the sentence "... rolled 11." What word does "..." substitute for?

Also, has this word and/or rule changed over the last 50 years?"


Grok 3's answer:
β–Ί Show Spoiler

While one should be wary that Grok 3 makes mistakes, they can usually be exposed by questioning his answers. I don't take what he says here as a definate source, but I think it's an interesting point of view and which correlates well with my personal experience over the years.

Of course the above exposes my point of view when it comes to language authorities. I believe they went from being a preserver of culture to become a destroyer of culture as they've gone through the process of wokism. Thus no authority at all, but an enemy that not only should be disregarded but rather actively fought.
You are not alone in your fury over those language changes - for all the reasons you mentioned. I so wish those *****-promoters had used one of their invented gender-neutral pronouns! I would even learn it. Unfortunately, they chose 'they/them,' declared it's their own now (like with everything), and it looks like that Overton window has shifted permanently and is here to stay.
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Post by loregamer »

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ May 12th, 2025, 14:52
Question for modders: is there any way to access the scripting from the UI elements and retrieve the gender?
I think I know what you're asking, maybe. I keep forgetting to remove facial hair hiding for women on Plus UI since apparently all the ***** modders put all their extra CC slots onto Beards
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Post by Makirige »

loregamer wrote: ↑ May 12th, 2025, 18:31
rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ May 12th, 2025, 14:52
Question for modders: is there any way to access the scripting from the UI elements and retrieve the gender?
I think I know what you're asking, maybe. I keep forgetting to remove facial hair hiding for women on Plus UI since apparently all the ***** modders put all their extra CC slots onto Beards
Maybe rename Beards into "Hair +" or anything ?
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Post by loregamer »

Makirige wrote: ↑ May 12th, 2025, 20:01
loregamer wrote: ↑ May 12th, 2025, 18:31
rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ May 12th, 2025, 14:52
Question for modders: is there any way to access the scripting from the UI elements and retrieve the gender?
I think I know what you're asking, maybe. I keep forgetting to remove facial hair hiding for women on Plus UI since apparently all the ***** modders put all their extra CC slots onto Beards
Maybe rename Beards into "Hair +" or anything ?
Will get to it... eventually... :tumbleweed:
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Post by Envuen »

Auld_SnawBeard wrote: ↑ May 12th, 2025, 14:47
I fear coming off as oddly obsessive of the topic doing this, but I went back to a relevant save to provoke the dialogue-box' appearance. I figure it's better to discuss this with factuality in mind if it's going to be a topic.

My argument is that when Lae'zel is assumed to be of an unspecified gender (for ease of coding) the correct pronoun is "he".
Singular "they" existed for a long time now but I do think using it is pretentious, especially now that it has been taken over mostly by the rainbow *******.
How about this:

"XYZ needs 12 to hit, but rolled 11."

Simple change and everyone's happy
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Post by orinEsque »

Envuen wrote: ↑ May 12th, 2025, 21:10
Auld_SnawBeard wrote: ↑ May 12th, 2025, 14:47
I fear coming off as oddly obsessive of the topic doing this, but I went back to a relevant save to provoke the dialogue-box' appearance. I figure it's better to discuss this with factuality in mind if it's going to be a topic.

My argument is that when Lae'zel is assumed to be of an unspecified gender (for ease of coding) the correct pronoun is "he".
Singular "they" existed for a long time now but I do think using it is pretentious, especially now that it has been taken over mostly by the rainbow *******.
How about this:

"XYZ needs 12 to hit, but rolled 11."

Simple change and everyone's happy
Problem here is i bet: it will become: XYZ needs 12, but rolled 12 [or more].

And then it becomes odd.
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Post by Alderbrand »

orinEsque wrote: ↑ May 12th, 2025, 23:46
Envuen wrote: ↑ May 12th, 2025, 21:10
Auld_SnawBeard wrote: ↑ May 12th, 2025, 14:47
I fear coming off as oddly obsessive of the topic doing this, but I went back to a relevant save to provoke the dialogue-box' appearance. I figure it's better to discuss this with factuality in mind if it's going to be a topic.

My argument is that when Lae'zel is assumed to be of an unspecified gender (for ease of coding) the correct pronoun is "he".
Singular "they" existed for a long time now but I do think using it is pretentious, especially now that it has been taken over mostly by the rainbow *******.
How about this:

"XYZ needs 12 to hit, but rolled 11."

Simple change and everyone's happy
Problem here is i bet: it will become: XYZ needs 12, but rolled 12 [or more].

And then it becomes odd.
Perhaps this would be better.

"XYZ needs 12 to hit, rolled 11."

or if its possible to duplicate how the game grabs and displays the actors name:

"XYZ needs 12 to hit. XYZ rolled 11."
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Post by orinEsque »

Alderbrand wrote: ↑ May 13th, 2025, 00:44
orinEsque wrote: ↑ May 12th, 2025, 23:46
Envuen wrote: ↑ May 12th, 2025, 21:10


Singular "they" existed for a long time now but I do think using it is pretentious, especially now that it has been taken over mostly by the rainbow *******.
How about this:

"XYZ needs 12 to hit, but rolled 11."

Simple change and everyone's happy
Problem here is i bet: it will become: XYZ needs 12, but rolled 12 [or more].

And then it becomes odd.
Perhaps this would be better.

"XYZ needs 12 to hit, rolled 11."

or if its possible to duplicate how the game grabs and displays the actors name:

"XYZ needs 12 to hit. XYZ rolled 11."
I was mulling over the latter option myself. The first one seems straightforward tho!
Last edited by orinEsque on May 13th, 2025, 14:24, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Envuen »

orinEsque wrote: ↑ May 12th, 2025, 23:46
Problem here is i bet: it will become: XYZ needs 12, but rolled 12 [or more].
And then it becomes odd.
"and" instead of "but" ?

XYZ needs 12 and rolled 8
XYZ needs 12 and rolled 12
XYZ needs 12 and rolled 19
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

The UI already has access to the name, can't you just use the name again?
Lae'zel needs 12 to hit. Lae'zel rolled 11.
Surely it's just a variable exposed to the UI?
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Post by Envuen »

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ May 13th, 2025, 15:03
The UI already has access to the name, can't you just use the name again?
It sounds odd to be so repetitive
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Post by orinEsque »

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ May 13th, 2025, 15:03
The UI already has access to the name, can't you just use the name again?
Lae'zel needs 12 to hit. Lae'zel rolled 11.
Surely it's just a variable exposed to the UI?
hopefully its that straightforward.
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Post by Magick »

"and" sounds better.
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Post by Delacroix »

Bah, another patch today. Surely its minor enough it doesn't cause an issue.
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Post by Cipher »

Any reason why Nocturne was turned into a man instead of a woman?

I just got the house of grief and he talks with Shadowheart and comments on how fun it was to do her hair and compliments her hair. It was extremely jarring to see a tiefling man talk in such a gay manner. No man would enjoy doing a woman's hair.

It would make more sense if she was a woman. I appreciate that Nocturne is no longe a ***** but, in my humble opinion. woman would fit way better with Nocturne's dialogue with Shadowheart.
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Post by LemonDemonGirl »

Is Aylin currently bugged? The voice is male but he looks like a woman
Image
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

LemonDemonGirl wrote: ↑ May 16th, 2025, 05:15
Is Aylin currently bugged? The voice is male but he looks like a woman
Image
Make sure your load order looks like this:
Oyster Sauce wrote: ↑ May 11th, 2025, 20:16
orinEsque wrote: ↑ May 11th, 2025, 20:14
Oyster Sauce wrote: ↑ May 11th, 2025, 19:38
This Redcap Blood Sage tried turning into a wolf...

Image
This is weird, i don't recall touching the redcaps...
Could just be a BG3 glitch where it thinks it's still a sheep

Image
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Post by LemonDemonGirl »

I don't use Realms Restored?
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Post by Auld_SnawBeard »

stephen-fry-burn-the-witch.gif
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Post by orinEsque »

LemonDemonGirl wrote: ↑ May 16th, 2025, 05:15
Is Aylin currently bugged? The voice is male but he looks like a woman
Image
you know the rules, give nud-- i mean your load order.
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rusty_shackleford
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

@loregamer how hard would it be to make a tool to analyze load order and bonk people if it's wrong?
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