MMOs declined bellow "gear garming QTE/cooldown managing barbie dressing games"

[Val the Moofia Boss]

What stands out most jarringly to me is that the Panda-people appear to be wielding Japanese weapons, even though Pandas are Chinese.

Samwise envisioned them as being Japanese themed. When Chen Stormstout/Pandaren Brewmaster was implemented in the WC3 beta, Chinese players complained, so it redesigned as Chinese. I think this was around the time that China was doing their big panda marketing push.

[Norfleet]

Samwise envisioned them as being Japanese themed.

Well, it sounds like he was a weeb, because no one who knows anything looks at a panda and thinks it's a Japanese thing.

Chinese players complained, so it redesigned as Chinese.

I don't usually agree with Chinese players, but in this case, I agree.

If he wanted a Japanese themed critter-people, couldn't he have picked that one Japanese raccoon-critter as a base instead?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

The Japanese Pandaren idea did somewhat survive into MoP. The Shado-Pan - the most prominently seen Pandaren military organization - are ninjas and have the same black/dark blue and red color scheme depicted in the original Pandaren art. They just don't wear kimonos or swords as that would give it away.

[Tinky Winky]

Bossing was a mistake, a good mmorpg shouldn't revolve around dungeon grinding.

[J1M]

Samwise envisioned them as being Japanese themed.

Well, it sounds like he was a weeb, because no one who knows anything looks at a panda and thinks it's a Japanese thing.

Chinese players complained, so it redesigned as Chinese.

I don't usually agree with Chinese players, but in this case, I agree.

If he wanted a Japanese themed critter-people, couldn't he have picked that one Japanese raccoon-critter as a base instead?

There existed a before-times when you could just make things that were cool and people said "that's cool" instead of bitching about how it's not conforming to real-world political spats.

[WaterMage]

About Pandas in WoW, it is ****. Want to know how to depics a fantasy version of China in a good way? Look to Warhammer Cathay > https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Grand_Cathay

Dragon Emperors, living Jade Statues, floating palaces(...).

Or to Khitai in Conan for a lower fantasy China.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I thought that Total Warhammer 3 Cathay was unimaginative. It's everything you would expect from China. Emperors, buercracy, huge armies, etc.

I thought Pandaria was very unique and refreshing, as it avoids a lot of those cliches. There was an emperor, but he was more of a "first amongst equals" who was respected for his wisdom, rather than passing decrees from his palace. There is no buercracy. There are no huge standing armies. Pandaria is overall anarchic, as in people are farming or carving wood or doing what they enjoy, with no tax collectors coming along or local lords or governors they live in fear of. The Order of the Cloud Serpent Riders are more of a hobbyist club of dragonriders who volunteer to help out when needed. The only standing military force, the Shado-Pan, keep themselves hidden away in the mountains preparing just in case something bad happens, and don't pester the civilians. So it's more of a Tolkien-esque depiction of how a kingdom should be. Interestingly, a lot of the usual China tropes of a dictatorial emperor, buercracy, and huge standing armies gets passed on to the villainous Mogu and their Thunder King, who are returning from slumber trying to reinstate their rule.

[WaterMage]

Honestly, for me WoW died in WotLK. I never played Pandaria, just cringed when saw Pandas. And only tested official servers once. Saw that they have "body types 1/2" and suddenly cancelled my subscription.

[Xenich]

Kind of my problem with modern MMOs and the crowds that push this design.

They want an action arcade game, but then get bored, move to another MMO, demand it be an action arcade game... then repeat. All games become action arcade games that people are bored with playing.

The problem isn't the action combat. It's the lack of glue to keep people playing, which in the old days was 1. the long progression and 2. the gameplay facilitating the formation of friendships and guilds. But with retail WoW clones, you don't need anyone so you don't make friends and join guilds, and you reach level cap very quickly and then run out of meaningful progression ie things to do. So you unsub.

I don't disagree, but I think a game that pushes too much into action can often work against those things depending on how it is implemented. I am not saying you can't have action based games, but the people who tend to seek those, also tend to desire faster paced progression content which then results in the issues you are pointing out. I think about how fights in EQ took a long time, were much slower paced and allowed people a more casual interaction in play. Add in downtime and the pace allowed for an easier means to form those bonds.

I think action games "tend" to work against that, but as I said it depends on how they are implemented.

[Norfleet]

The problem isn't the action combat. It's the lack of glue to keep people playing, which in the old days was 1. the long progression and 2. the gameplay facilitating the formation of friendships and guilds. But with retail WoW clones, you don't need anyone so you don't make friends and join guilds, and you reach level cap very quickly and then run out of meaningful progression ie things to do. So you unsub.

Definitely an issue: People play ****** games because their friends are playing the same ****** game. Take that away and the entire thing collapses.

I don't disagree, but I think a game that pushes too much into action can often work against those things depending on how it is implemented.

Not to mention "action" in an online game is itself tricky. Remember that it takes maybe 200-300ms for something to reach the server and then to the other players. Any slice of "action" that demands faster response than that starts to break down under these physical constraints. If I'm action-shooting a guy, his actual position could be anywhere he could reach within that timespan and it is physically impossible for me to therefore know with any reliability whether I've shot anything. And the more "actiony" you make the game, the more important that is.

I am not saying you can't have action based games, but the people who tend to seek those, also tend to desire faster paced progression content

Also, because action games are mostly for children, and children have very short attention spans. A more cerebral game favors an older playerbase, and older people tend to have better attention spans.