Could AI Make Games Too "Perfect"?

[Vergil]

I was thinking about trying out a mod to add AI functionality to Skyrim characters (specifically for companions). A big reason was that I liked the idea of being able to create a voiced, fully reactive companion with my own specifics backstory and personality suited to my tastes. This did make me wonder though if this sort of thing gets integrated into games in the future how much would it end up actually hurting a lot of potential new experiences.

There are a lot of games (and media in general) that had things I didn't initially think I would like but found myself enjoying them quite a lot once I gave them a try. However, if I was able to have such free control from the get go when it came to things like narrative, companions, and dialog would I ever experience them in the first place? Or would I just generate the same handful of tropes and templates I already know I like without ever experiencing anything new? People are very unlikely to venture out of their comfort zone unless they absolutely have to after all.

I could very well see it become an issue for games where, similar to how many places on the internet use algorithms to keep you in a sort of echo chamber of seeing similar content based on previously liked content, AI generated game content could keep you from venturing outside a very narrow list of experiences.

It's kind of hard for me to really give a definitive answer on how I feel about this currently because I can see in theory how it would be a problem but I do have an issue of having so few games cater to my specific tastes as is that it's kind of hard to image that hypothetical reality where I could have an infinite number of them. I imagine it would be sort of like food though. Even your favorite food would begin to lose some enjoyment if you ate it every single day surely? I would get tired of games with angsty white haired elves with special powers and a dark tragic backstory. Right?

[Oyster Sauce]

I'm from India btw not sure if that matters

[Tweed]

What pasta is this from?

[TKVNC]

The problem is, most game characters are already like AI, because the writers are low IQ. Difference is they're also brown, and gay.

[Vergil]

The problem is, most game characters are already like AI, because the writers are low IQ. Difference is they're also brown, and gay.

The dead internet theory vs brown internet reality dichotomy strikes again....

[asf]

kill urself

[Cipher]

I don't think AI can make things "too perfect" as you mention unless the idea behind games at that stage is to be "toolkits" instead of tailored experiences.

Ideally, something like this AI stuff for Skyrim would be used to create NPCs and companions to have their own set of morals, likes and dislikes and personalities. This would make it so instead of the devs having to plan for every single thing the player in their game could do and create flags for it, the companion NPC would just react according to his or her character as designed by the devs/writers and powered by the AI model.

This means stuff like Ajantis challenging Dorn to a fight since Ajantis refuses to suffer his evil nature any longer. I always let him do this and is one of the reasons why I don't mod the Beamdog NPCs out of the game. I like seeing Ajantis take a stance and be the paladin he is and smite down evil.

Now, if the game devs are ***** **** that give trigger warnings to the player and let them tailor the NPC companions to their liking so they are simps for the Player character then sure, but that is already the case in the majority of games and doesn't really need this AI stuff to get there.

I agree that most normie cattle prefer the power fantasy of feeling like the popular kids they never were and have every single NPC glaze them all the time, but ideally if this technology improves and becomes more easily accessible to game devs we will see a better implementation of it. As I said in another thread, the dream would be for all NPCs to have actual names appropriate to their region and culture and to have detailed backstories that inform their actions, dialogue and reaction to the Player's actions and reputation. This would be the same for any companion NPCs.

And sure, the most likely scenario is for ***** *** devs to create another BG3 party of player-sexual simps but then again that's just Sturgeon's Law. The cream will rise to the top as it always does, eventually. 3 years ago AI art looked terrible and uncanny, now a good model can even render fingers properly which was previously a huge issue that would always gave away the drawing was AI generated. It's still not up to snuff but is getting there extremely fast all things considered. And sure, ***** **** are trying to poison the models through various means but like I said, the cream will rise to the top because as much as woketards want to claim otherwise, people like excellence and they may preach on social media stuff like how "Lizzo is beautiful" but would be offended when compared to her, betraying their real opinions and their need to virtue signal.

At the end of the day, we all want good art and good products, is just that normie cattle is so starved for social validation that they will say whatever they believe gives them more upvotes on Reddit.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I would only want randomly generated NPC dialogue and behaviors in a purely sandbox simulationist game where I don't really give a hoot about any of the characters or the story, like Rimworld or Mount & Blade or Kenshi. Basically gamey games. If I am playing a regular RPG with any narrative focus, then I would rather the lines and behavior to have been generated by a writer and a programmer who had a vision for that character. If the character doesn't react to certain things, then that is a failing/oversight on part of the creators but I wouldn't want a random computer algorithm to "fix" it.

[Vergil]

I don't think AI can make things "too perfect" as you mention unless the idea behind games at that stage is to be "toolkits" instead of tailored experiences.

Ideally, something like this AI stuff for Skyrim would be used to create NPCs and companions to have their own set of morals, likes and dislikes and personalities. This would make it so instead of the devs having to plan for every single thing the player in their game could do and create flags for it, the companion NPC would just react according to his or her character as designed by the devs/writers and powered by the AI model.

This means stuff like Ajantis challenging Dorn to a fight since Ajantis refuses to suffer his evil nature any longer. I always let him do this and is one of the reasons why I don't mod the Beamdog NPCs out of the game. I like seeing Ajantis take a stance and be the paladin he is and smite down evil.

Now, if the game devs are ***** **** that give trigger warnings to the player and let them tailor the NPC companions to their liking so they are simps for the Player character then sure, but that is already the case in the majority of games and doesn't really need this AI stuff to get there.

I agree that most normie cattle prefer the power fantasy of feeling like the popular kids they never were and have every single NPC glaze them all the time, but ideally if this technology improves and becomes more easily accessible to game devs we will see a better implementation of it. As I said in another thread, the dream would be for all NPCs to have actual names appropriate to their region and culture and to have detailed backstories that inform their actions, dialogue and reaction to the Player's actions and reputation. This would be the same for any companion NPCs.

And sure, the most likely scenario is for ***** *** devs to create another BG3 party of player-sexual simps but then again that's just Sturgeon's Law. The cream will rise to the top as it always does, eventually. 3 years ago AI art looked terrible and uncanny, now a good model can even render fingers properly which was previously a huge issue that would always gave away the drawing was AI generated. It's still not up to snuff but is getting there extremely fast all things considered. And sure, ***** **** are trying to poison the models through various means but like I said, the cream will rise to the top because as much as woketards want to claim otherwise, people like excellence and they may preach on social media stuff like how "Lizzo is beautiful" but would be offended when compared to her, betraying their real opinions and their need to virtue signal.

At the end of the day, we all want good art and good products, is just that normie cattle is so starved for social validation that they will say whatever they believe gives them more upvotes on Reddit.

I can understand what you're saying in terms of developers using it as a tool to create a product that they then sell. I'm more talking about the level of AI use/integration becoming so commonplace and easy to use it's not longer just a tool for development. You go in and tweak things in a game the same way you as the consumer would change difficulty settings.

Or in a similar fashion there's a constant algorithm in the background that is generating content based on your tastes in real time. The characters you meet that can be added to your party are being generated based on prior party members you've been positive towards in another game. Similar to youtube recommendations getting flooded after you watch one video on a topic you could end up clearing draugr crypts over and over again because the game is generating new ones based on how much time you spend in draugr crypts etc.

[jebacdrkac]

Vergil got hacked by Unhelpful Contrarian?

[TKVNC]

...Similar to youtube recommendations getting flooded after you watch one video on a topic you could end up clearing draugr crypts over and over again because the game is generating new ones based on how much time you spend in draugr crypts etc.

Could you not add some sort of 'wild-card' effect where it randomly shuffles things? That could theoretically prevent the echo chamber effect.

[NotAI]

AI is presently data driven. It would depend on what they train the AI on.

We know the answer so far: stupid ****, for the most part.

So it is quite unlikely to be too perfect.

Edit. In the distant future...well...that actually is a good question.

But in the distant future, for example, the communists planned to colonize mars with communal farms and produce lemonade for earthly consumption, for optimal use of land on earth.

...It's hard to speculate about the distant future with good accuracy and precision.

[TKVNC]

But in the distant future, for example, the communists planned to colonize mars with communal farms and produce lemonade for earthly consumption, for optimal use of land on earth.

...It's hard to speculate about the distant future with good accuracy and precision.

Distant future is entire planets owned by corporations who produce universe scale supply of diet coke.

[Cipher]

I don't think AI can make things "too perfect" as you mention unless the idea behind games at that stage is to be "toolkits" instead of tailored experiences.

Ideally, something like this AI stuff for Skyrim would be used to create NPCs and companions to have their own set of morals, likes and dislikes and personalities. This would make it so instead of the devs having to plan for every single thing the player in their game could do and create flags for it, the companion NPC would just react according to his or her character as designed by the devs/writers and powered by the AI model.

This means stuff like Ajantis challenging Dorn to a fight since Ajantis refuses to suffer his evil nature any longer. I always let him do this and is one of the reasons why I don't mod the Beamdog NPCs out of the game. I like seeing Ajantis take a stance and be the paladin he is and smite down evil.

Now, if the game devs are ***** **** that give trigger warnings to the player and let them tailor the NPC companions to their liking so they are simps for the Player character then sure, but that is already the case in the majority of games and doesn't really need this AI stuff to get there.

I agree that most normie cattle prefer the power fantasy of feeling like the popular kids they never were and have every single NPC glaze them all the time, but ideally if this technology improves and becomes more easily accessible to game devs we will see a better implementation of it. As I said in another thread, the dream would be for all NPCs to have actual names appropriate to their region and culture and to have detailed backstories that inform their actions, dialogue and reaction to the Player's actions and reputation. This would be the same for any companion NPCs.

And sure, the most likely scenario is for ***** *** devs to create another BG3 party of player-sexual simps but then again that's just Sturgeon's Law. The cream will rise to the top as it always does, eventually. 3 years ago AI art looked terrible and uncanny, now a good model can even render fingers properly which was previously a huge issue that would always gave away the drawing was AI generated. It's still not up to snuff but is getting there extremely fast all things considered. And sure, ***** **** are trying to poison the models through various means but like I said, the cream will rise to the top because as much as woketards want to claim otherwise, people like excellence and they may preach on social media stuff like how "Lizzo is beautiful" but would be offended when compared to her, betraying their real opinions and their need to virtue signal.

At the end of the day, we all want good art and good products, is just that normie cattle is so starved for social validation that they will say whatever they believe gives them more upvotes on Reddit.

I can understand what you're saying in terms of developers using it as a tool to create a product that they then sell. I'm more talking about the level of AI use/integration becoming so commonplace and easy to use it's not longer just a tool for development. You go in and tweak things in a game the same way you as the consumer would change difficulty settings.

Or in a similar fashion there's a constant algorithm in the background that is generating content based on your tastes in real time. The characters you meet that can be added to your party are being generated based on prior party members you've been positive towards in another game. Similar to youtube recommendations getting flooded after you watch one video on a topic you could end up clearing draugr crypts over and over again because the game is generating new ones based on how much time you spend in draugr crypts etc.

Yes, that's the thing. If devs tailor the game to normie cattle that want every single NPC, but specially the companions, to glaze them so they can have the power fantasy of being the cool kids they never were then yes. And, because normie cattle want this, it will happen. But, as I said, that would be Sturegon's Law in effect. It will be used to produce slop because that's just the way things are. But, it will also be used to properly create a great experience that is immersive and reactive.

So, it will make the games "too perfect" because that's what normie cattle will pay for but like I said you can find games without AI where the party members and NPCs that interact with the player a lot already glaze the Player character all the time already, and some are older titles like Fire Emblem Awakening which is a decade old. That's not going to change as long as the audience doesn't change. However, the tools will allow devs that are not ***** **** to create a quality product that will stand the test of time. The cream will eventually raise to the top, as always.

And to be clear, if I have to chose between the NPCs being simps for the player or being annoying entitled ******* like in recent media, then glazing is the way to go. But, ideally, the NPCs will have an appropriate reaction towards the Player depending on the Player character's reputation and the NPC's own culture and background. Most games before the era of "modern gaming" where like this for the most parts. A few games would glaze the player like crazy. Most NPCs should be neutral towards the Player character unless they have a reason not to.

What you describe would be honestly a horrible experience that will get tiresome fast so of course it will be sold to normies as revolutionary. In the same fashion Bethesda sold normies the "infinite quests!" with their radiant quest system. But, procedural generation has its place, its a tool and like any tool it can used properly or improperly. Take the Binding of Isaac or something like Xenonauts. It uses procedural generation to great effect to keep things fresh. The problem is that Bethesda got taken over by ****** and **** and did the least amount of effort to provide a minimum viable product for Starfield. The procedurally generated enemy bases could be interesting, with around 100 or so possible setups that get shuffled, the problem is that they didn't do that, they created a single template and then add it as 1 tile of variability to what a procedurally generated planet could have. They got lazy because why shouldn't they? Normies had glazed them and their ******** practices for years at that point. But, their hubris cost them dearly and now their reputation is in shambles.

The thing about Youtube is that the amount of content and variance is so mindnumbingly enormous that they have to use something to curate what they show you. Its not perfect by any means but the algo is doing its job, it shows you content that you appear to enjoy and spend your time watching. A fantasy game that only gives me caves and undead because I liked one cave that happened to have undead would be a terribly lazy usage of the tool. It will most definitely happen, just like Starfield happened, it doesn't mean it will be good or that it will prevent others to use the tool properly and deliver a quality product.

A good application of such a tool is stuff like Dwarf Fortress generating an actual world with history in it. Now, imagine if AI could take that legwork and then continuously apply it so the world is alive and actually changes and develops on its own.

Tailored to a more classic fantasy RPG would be monsters getting savvy to the Player and his tactics and devising counter measures. Enemies adapting on the fly to try to actually win fights, without having to resort to ******** "enemy only" abilities or rulesets or inflation of numbers or better yet, turning tail and attempting to flee when the tide turns against them. Companions that have an actual backstory, a past lived experience that shapes their personality and sets of values, flaws and virtues and whose approval you can foster or squander. Language model AI makes it so all the legwork that would take countless of man hours to write around and create flags for can be done by the AI, leaving the humans to use their time to be creative and provide a good product. So yes, there will be a cave here and it will have draugr, because you are in Skyrim and Skyrim has caves with draugrs. But not every cave will have draugr and Skyrim doesn't have only caves. And if you decide to set sail into the sea, then you will encounter other sailors that could be friendly, neutral or dastardly pirates. And if you reach High Rock you may find yourself swept in the machinations of nobles and their petty political intrigues.