The Erosion of Racial Differentiation in RPGs/Homogenization of Races

[WaterMage]

Older RPGs—whether tabletop classics like Warhammer Fantasy and D&D or early CRPGs from Bethesda—once reveled in the stark differences between races. Take Elder Scrolls: Bretons began with 50% Magicka resistance and 50 INT, while Redguards had no such resistance and started at 30 INT. In AD&D and its adaptations like Baldur’s Gate 1 and 2, race restricted your class options, and even sub-races had unique perks—Gnomes could hit 19 INT, humans capped at 18. Warhammer Fantasy went further: Dwarves couldn’t wield magic at all, humans were limited to a single wind of magic that shaped their very body (f they try to use two or more, they stray into forbidden arts, and you’d likely turn to the corrupted Dhar), the Winds of Magic also affected human body, making Bright Wizards having red hair for eg, while Elves could master all winds in harmony through "high magic." For the non Warhammer fans here, Imagine D&D where human wizards were locked to one school—fire evocation for Bright Wizard, illusion for Grey Wizard, Transmutation for Gold Wizards—yet Elves could cast anything. That is how much race matters in WH Fantasy.

Contrast that with today’s RPGs. Elder Scrolls has steadily sanded down its edges: the Altmer’s Magicka weakness, once crippling in Morrowind, is a footnote in Skyrim and irrelevant in Online. D&D has lifted racial class restrictions and is now even scrapping Drow sunlight sensitivity—a trait that made sense for a species evolved in dark underground cities. Everyone can do everything now.

Playing The Old Realm mod for Bannerlord as an Vampire Dark Magician and as a Celestial Wizard are vastly different experiences. I don't have it in other modern games.

Everyone is now human reskin N31565864846. And what is the point of including Elves, Dwarves, Drow, Orcs, Half Orcs, Cambions, etc if they are all humans with different names and slightly different appearance?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I think one issue has to with the practicalities of playtesting so many different dramatically different character pemutations to make sure that the player can complete a long RPG. Players have far more time than devs to play the game, as the devs spend most of their day making the game.

If a player straight up can't use magic at all, or takes double damage from magic, that could make certain sections impossible to beat or extremely frustrating, which neccesitates playtesting to catch to find these hazards. Then the devs have to implement alternate routes, or add items/spells/party members before that section to cover that gap and then have to figure out whether or not players can naturally acquire enough of these tools on their own or if they are too hidden. Multiply that by however really out there character permutations there can be.

[Reichspepe]

@WaterMage
Yes, completely agree.
We all know the main reason why this is the case I'd say

[fkirenicus]

Everyone is now human reskin N31565864846. And what is the point of including Elves, Dwarves, Drow, Orcs, Half Orcs, Cambions, etc if they are all humans with different names and slightly different appearance?

"But but but... what about DIVERSITY??"

And as we all know, for the liberals and hence many of today's gamers (both TTRPG and CRPG) "diversity" means humans with different appearances (preferably black or Asian) and equal abilities for everyone. It started with the utterly usesless "ECL" rules in D&D 3, and as you say, now all can do the same things, have the same properties and basically are identical - except of course for DIVERSITYYYY...

[WaterMage]

of playtesting so many different dramatically different character pemutations

Game devs did it in 90s, when there was much less people working for games and worse game developing tolls. Much less memory and processing capability.

[WaterMage]

I also don't get the point of including races/species if they are just human reskins. I mean, in WH40k Rogue Trader, you can only be human. Orks, Eldar and other races are completely different than humans. There is nothing wrong with having a humancentric campaign(P&P) or humancentric RPG.

[gerey]

I also don't get the point of including races/species if they are just human reskins

It's because the "people" forcing these changes don't play the games, nor do they give a **** about the IP. They don't care your experience is now ruined, and that everything that made the setting unique has been sanded away.

They have proven how virtuous they are in the eyes of their sociopathic peers, and that's all that matters.

[UltraFan123]

Yeah the ones that preach the loudest about "diversity" are the ones that detest actual diversity the most.

When it comes to the real world, these "people" just want literal skin-deep diversity while the mentality - what's inside - of everyone is as homogenous as it can be. Hence why the settings where everyone looks different but functions the same is like a leftard dreamworld.

[TKVNC]

They're just unknowing agents of Mr Kalergi.

That said, it doesn't even matter if you can't do some things, it's part of the experience, a competent developer would add solutions that reward player ingenuity. Enchanted weapons, if you can't use magic.

Problem solving is what makes games fun. If you're engaging with it at the same level as a film, then what is the point?

[Valter]

Stop stop, you're making me wanna start a Pathfinder WOTR Lich campaign (necromancy is cool)

[rusty_shackleford]

I blame w*men

[WaterMage]

Stop stop, you're making me wanna start a Pathfinder WOTR Lich campaign (necromancy is cool)

If yuou like necromancy, I suggest testing the mod The Old realms for Bannerlord

[WaterMage]

Remember when I said that dwarfs in Warhammer are incredibly resistant against magic?

After testing a bit of celestial magic, I decided to test Lore of the Vampires in Warhammer Conquest ( > https://warswordconquest.fandom.com/wik ... f_Vampires ). My very first cast of Void of the Death. This spell decimates large groups of non-Dwarfs and against Dwarfs:



Yes, EVERY single dwarf in my spell area resisted my spell.

I really like it. It makes each species more unique and different.

IMO, it seems like the best unity against them is the mounted marksman, preferentially with firearms.

PS : Installing Warsword Conquest on Linux was hard, but the mod is good.

[Manny V]

Remember when I said that dwarfs in Warhammer are incredibly resistant against magic?

After testing a bit of celestial magic, I decided to test Lore of the Vampires in Warhammer Conquest ( > https://warswordconquest.fandom.com/wik ... f_Vampires ). My very first cast of Void of the Death. This spell decimates large groups of non-Dwarfs and against Dwarfs:



Yes, EVERY single dwarf in my spell area resisted my spell.

I really like it. It makes each species more unique and different.

IMO, it seems like the best unity against them is the mounted marksman, preferentially with firearms.

PS : Installing Warsword Conquest on Linux was hard, but the mod is good.

Khazuk! Yer shoddy magic will not harm me, zangunaz!

[WaterMage]

Honestly, modern RPGs are so **** that I think that there are more differences in human cultures of older RPGs than in humans X non-human cultures in modern RPGs. See how High Rock and Hammerfell are different in Daggerfall. See how Glantri and Thyatis are vastly different in Mystara. See how in Warhammer Fantasy, a guy from Tilea would view Bretonnia as a bunch of religious zealots; meanwhile, Bretonnians would view Tilea as a den of mercenaries and prostitutes.

The pro-diversity crowd doesn't want diversity per se. They hate differentiation. They want everyone to be a soulless clone of everyone else and don't even limit such demand to humans. Having different cultures that excel in different fields is heresy for them. Different sentient species with different aptitudes, good traits and bad traits is "fascism" for them.

[UltraFan123]

The pro-diversity crowd doesn't want diversity per se.

Exactly. This is what most normal people needs to comprehend about leftards, that what they say is always the complete opposite of what they actually want.

[Havitner]

030224dailystormermeme8.jpeg

[Norfleet]

This is also why apparently Leftoids are completely unable to even understand what the Right is thinking and can only deem them to be evil. They are just unable to process any mode of thought other than their own.

[UltraFan123]

This is also why apparently Leftoids are completely unable to even understand what the Right is thinking and can only deem them to be evil. They are just unable to process any mode of thought other than their own.

Yeah, the amount of times I have read the phrase "Trump/MAGA wants to turn the US into an autocratic theocracy!" while looking at leftard social media post to laugh at them is outstanding.

[rusty_shackleford]

This is also why apparently Leftoids are completely unable to even understand what the Right is thinking and can only deem them to be evil. They are just unable to process any mode of thought other than their own.

Yeah, the amount of times I have read the phrase "Trump/MAGA wants to turn the US into an autocratic theocracy!" while looking at leftard social media post to laugh at them is outstanding.

But I do?

[Nessa]

Everyone is now human reskin N31565864846. And what is the point of including Elves, Dwarves, Drow, Orcs, Half Orcs, Cambions, etc if they are all humans with different names and slightly different appearance?

It started with normalizing the genders I think. Some of the super old games would give malice and bonuses depending on gender. Then with time now every stupid race is just human that looks slightly different. It's absolutely infuriating and one of the reasons I rarely get involved in any new settings now. If everyone is the same, then what's the point of all the races? None. So might as well reduce the **** game to human and save on some development time.

[UltraFan123]

If everyone is the same, then what's the point of all the races?

Yeah, the "the world would be perfect if everyone was equal" is ******** commie propaganda.

The ones that scream the loudest about DIVERSITY are the ones that loathe differences the most, funnily enough.

[WaterMage]

The Oblivion remake replacing gender differences with "place of origin" indicates well how leftists think. Differentiation between genders = bad. Differentiation between places where people grew up = good.

Does anyone doubt that TES VI will have all human races and elves the same and the unique difference between a Breton and a Redguard will be their "culture"?

[mercerxiv]

Well, it comes from a twisted world view they hold that there's no race (unless someone needs to screech about discrimination, they do seriously say that the idea of race is outdated nazi science), and that different "looking" people are equivalent if not better, and the only reason they are ever bad is because of being oppressed by the evil majority, bigoted racists, and climate.

So I recon the focus moving forward will be on all the bad guys being tragic racially diverse characters who have been made that way by bad #stand in race for whitey#, or were horrible ideological extremists (I don't know, orc conservatives who wanted to go to the old ways?), you get the idea.

[Xenich]

Older RPGs—whether tabletop classics like Warhammer Fantasy and D&D or early CRPGs from Bethesda—once reveled in the stark differences between races. Take Elder Scrolls: Bretons began with 50% Magicka resistance and 50 INT, while Redguards had no such resistance and started at 30 INT. In AD&D and its adaptations like Baldur’s Gate 1 and 2, race restricted your class options, and even sub-races had unique perks—Gnomes could hit 19 INT, humans capped at 18. Warhammer Fantasy went further: Dwarves couldn’t wield magic at all, humans were limited to a single wind of magic that shaped their very body (f they try to use two or more, they stray into forbidden arts, and you’d likely turn to the corrupted Dhar), the Winds of Magic also affected human body, making Bright Wizards having red hair for eg, while Elves could master all winds in harmony through "high magic." For the non Warhammer fans here, Imagine D&D where human wizards were locked to one school—fire evocation for Bright Wizard, illusion for Grey Wizard, Transmutation for Gold Wizards—yet Elves could cast anything. That is how much race matters in WH Fantasy.

Contrast that with today’s RPGs. Elder Scrolls has steadily sanded down its edges: the Altmer’s Magicka weakness, once crippling in Morrowind, is a footnote in Skyrim and irrelevant in Online. D&D has lifted racial class restrictions and is now even scrapping Drow sunlight sensitivity—a trait that made sense for a species evolved in dark underground cities. Everyone can do everything now.

Playing The Old Realm mod for Bannerlord as an Vampire Dark Magician and as a Celestial Wizard are vastly different experiences. I don't have it in other modern games.

Everyone is now human reskin N31565864846. And what is the point of including Elves, Dwarves, Drow, Orcs, Half Orcs, Cambions, etc if they are all humans with different names and slightly different appearance?

Honestly, there is really no discussion to be had about this, it is pointless circle jerking.

It is all propaganda and once you understand this, everything makes sense.

Once everyone understands the propaganda, then maybe... if the cowards can find their courage... things can change.

[UltraFan123]

Once everyone understands the propaganda, then maybe... if the cowards can find their courage... things can change.

The issue is that we do in fact understand the propaganda, we have had for a good while now.

Rather, the cowards are the leftards currently on top of mainstream media - for now - who are actively trying to push down those with the courage to rise up.

See how they triggered GamerGate2 simply because of a single Brazilian guy who spoke up against them, or in another medium of comic books there's this guy Eric July - one of the world's few based ******* - who is creating his own independent media and is thus likewise under the target of leftards as well.

[Goblin_Hammer]

Once everyone understands the propaganda, then maybe... if the cowards can find their courage... things can change.

The issue is that we do in fact understand the propaganda, we have had for a good while now.

Rather, the cowards are the leftards currently on top of mainstream media - for now - who are actively trying to push down those with the courage to rise up.

See how they triggered GamerGate2 simply because of a single Brazilian guy who spoke up against them, or in another medium of comic books there's this guy Eric July - one of the world's few based ******* - who is creating his own independent media and is thus likewise under the target of leftards as well.

Centrists are also spineless ******* that are so scared to be called racist or some "phobe" that they will always side with leftist when push comes to shove.

[WaterMage]

About RPG settings, What I like about Warhammer is that it seems like it was written by historians. Don't feel like a theme park like Golarion, and that races are unique, the historical mixing with the fantastical in an interesting way that I don't see in other settings. I just hope that GW never decides to go full racial homogenization. Like WoTC and Paizo are doing. I want the strongest human greatsword, being a weakling compared to an orc warboss, and the strongest human mage, a weakling compared to an elf archmage. Do you think that GW will homogenize races like D&D, Pathfinder, and even Elder Scrolls homogenized their races? I don't like that being a Breton in TESO feels like a skin but is meaningful in TES Arena, Daggerfall, and Morrowind.

Do you guys think that GW will homogenize races like D&D, Pathfinder, and even Elder Scrolls homogenized their races?

In some retroclones, like LotFP, being an elf caster and a human caster is a vastly different experience. Why do so many RPGs make it so your race is just a skin?

What is the point of having different species/races if everyone is the same?

[UltraFan123]

About RPG settings, What I like about Warhammer is that it seems like it was written by historians. Don't feel like a theme park like Golarion, and that races are unique, the historical mixing with the fantastical in an interesting way that I don't see in other settings. I just hope that GW never decides to go full racial homogenization. Like WoTC and Paizo are doing. I want the strongest human greatsword, being a weakling compared to an orc warboss, and the strongest human mage, a weakling compared to an elf archmage. Do you think that GW will homogenize races like D&D, Pathfinder, and even Elder Scrolls homogenized their races? I don't like that being a Breton in TESO feels like a skin but is meaningful in TES Arena, Daggerfall, and Morrowind.

Do you guys think that GW will homogenize races like D&D, Pathfinder, and even Elder Scrolls homogenized their races?

In some retroclones, like LotFP, being an elf caster and a human caster is a vastly different experience. Why do so many RPGs make it so your race is just a skin?

What is the point of having different species/races if everyone is the same?

Leftards and similar-thinking commies believe that the idea of "hierarchy" - as in there being individuals or entire groups that are superior to others - is evil and must be replaced by universal equality, even if the objective reality of the world proves that hierarchies not only exist, but are also good things.

That's also why libtards have been saying for years now that "Alpha Males" or alpha anything for that matter don't exist, even though they do in fact exist and always have.

[LemonDemonGirl]

The Oblivion remake replacing gender differences with "place of origin" indicates well how leftists think. Differentiation between genders = bad. Differentiation between places where people grew up = good.

Does anyone doubt that TES VI will have all human races and elves the same and the unique difference between a Breton and a Redguard will be their "culture"?

I'll just continue to play Skyrim/ESO, **** that

OT: WoW has Racial abilities/passives, and they DO matter somewhat. So no Melting Pot of Gay ******** here yet