If OwlCat decides to adapt Warhammer fantasy, which "ruleset" should they use?

[WaterMage]

wlcat making another overengineered mess.

Nope because there will be much less "classes" as "carrers" if they do a d20.

Sure, Celestial Wizards have damage spells too, but those always felt like more of an afterthought to me.

"Some damage spells"


Some Celestial spells :

• Azure Blades - Thin, razor-like shards fill the air around the wizard, whirling in orbit around them like miniature stars, and dealing damage to any who come close for a hand-to-hand combat attack.[5a]
• Chain Lightning - Lightning bursts from the wizard's hands and arcs across the battlefield, leaping from foe to foe with crackling fury.[3a]
• Iceshard Blizzard - Razor-sharp shards of ice hurl from the chill skies to blind and dishearten the foe.[3a]
• Lightning Bolt - Throws a powerful bolt of lightning at an opponent.[1f]
• Manann's Herald - The wizard summons a great tidal wave to sweep away his enemies.[6a]
• Wind Blast - Calls down raging winds from the sky anywhere nearby to blow the wizard's opponents over. While in the area of effect, characters cannot fire missile weapons (or be targeted by them) and are hampered in their movements.[1h][3a]
• Wings of Heaven - The astromancer is borne aloft by winds under their command, able to fly for minutes at a time.[1h]

src https://warhammerfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Azyr

Azyr is not only about divination. IS also about weather manipulation. Can be used to boost agriculture, predict war outcomes and evoke lightning storms and change fate itself. And don't underestimate divination. A Azyr Wizard saying that the war plans will fail can save a entire kingdom.

Meanwhile, outside of battlefield, Bright Wizards are worthless. A weather wizard capable of fly, throwing lightning, ice storms and tsunamis into the enemies is extremely useful on the battlefield. And on the agriculture. And recognizance. And on the commerce. In a war between kingdom A vs B, the Bright Wizard will go on frontlines burn things. The Celestial Wizard will fly to enemy territory, destroy its logistics, flood their farms, invest into agricultural production and make the enemy dependent upon your agriculture and end the war quickly and become filthy rich in the process.

We, Celestial Wizards are the wealthiest of Wizards because Azyr allows us to see the future and we can do more than burn stuff.

In theory the game should be plenty moddable, since it's all C# Unity stuff. But I know of only one mod that makes non-trivial changes to the abilities and talent system, which suggests it's either reasonably complicated or the player/modder base just isn't there.

Yes, stuff in this game are much more hard codded than previous OwlCat games...

[rusty_shackleford]

the bright guys are used because fire is cool

[WaterMage]

the bright guys are used because fire is cool

Weather manipulation is cool too.

Fire can destroy a lot of stuff on the battlefield. But Azyr, via divination + lightning strikes in logistical hubs + hailstorms in enemy crops can win the war and force the enemy to capitulate before the war even starts.

[Manny V]

i like da grey wizards cause dey look like gandalf in total war

but bright and celestial wizards are cool too

[WaterMage]

Yes, they are all about illusions and making the enemies kill themselves, plus espionage and assassination. I like them. But still prefer the power of heavens.

[WaterMage]

I was speculating about if OwlCat makes a Warhammer Fantasy in the sense of Kingmaker and WoTR, but honestly, imagine the same guys that made Rogue Trader making a warhammer fantasy game.

• They would take away all cool Winds of magic, no Azyr. No Celestial Lore. The best and more interesting lore. Also restrict you to only Fire and Shadows and take away all offensive shadow spells, like they took away Telekinesis and ALL offensive biomancy in RT.
• You would be able to play as a Bretonnian but no cavalry.
• No demigryph
• A improvised crossbow would deal the same damage of a repeater made by the Empire master engineers like in RT, lasguns and Bolters are very similar damage wise.
• No different ammo types, Kingmaker and WoTR, you could equip unique quivers of ammo with unique proprieties, in RT, you can't.
• Zimbabwe tier number inflation, expect six to seven digit monsters in end game, while in TT, even greater daemons rarely have 3 digit hp and the most devastating spells deals like 4d10 damage.
• Zero reactivity on races, you would be able to play as a Gnome or as a Elf but no one would care. They would be human reskins
  (...)

[UltraFan123]

Zero reactivity on races, you would be able to play as a Gnome or as a Elf but no one would care. They would be human reskins

This is my biggest grip with post-modern RPGs, both pen-and-paper and computer ones.

[WaterMage]

Mine is how they could have implemented a more "unique" magic in Rogue trader, based on telekinesis and biomancy and ... Decided to not include telekinesis and a single form of offensive biomancy. Either way, IMO I would rather they only including humans as playable characters than they including every race in warhammer lore but you can be a Dark Elf using Dhar openly in Altdorf consequence free. And knowing owlcat, I wouldn't be surprised if they will do it...

[Unhelpful Contrarian]

I was speculating about if OwlCat makes a Warhammer Fantasy in the sense of Kingmaker and WoTR, but honestly, imagine the same guys that made Rogue Trader making a warhammer fantasy game.

• They would take away all cool Winds of magic, no Azyr. No Celestial Lore. The best and more interesting lore. Also restrict you to only Fire and Shadows and take away all offensive shadow spells, like they took away Telekinesis and ALL offensive biomancy in RT.
• You would be able to play as a Bretonnian but no cavalry.
• No demigryph
• A improvised crossbow would deal the same damage of a repeater made by the Empire master engineers like in RT, lasguns and Bolters are very similar damage wise.
• No different ammo types, Kingmaker and WoTR, you could equip unique quivers of ammo with unique proprieties, in RT, you can't.
• Zimbabwe tier number inflation, expect six to seven digit monsters in end game, while in TT, even greater daemons rarely have 3 digit hp and the most devastating spells deals like 4d10 damage.
• Zero reactivity on races, you would be able to play as a Gnome or as a Elf but no one would care. They would be human reskins
  (...)

Your last point about reactivity is very true which is unfortunate how it’s only to get worse now ,since going forward all Owlcat games will be fully VA. Playing Pathfinder WOTR A Dance of Mask DLC showed all drawbacks in how it effects reactivity and writing going fully VA.