Various role-playing RPG game stuff not deserving its own thread

[Rand]

Well, in Underrail's case, I knew that branching out too much gimped your character so I wanted to know how the game was the most fun to play.
Seems like the simplest solution is an armored assault rifle build, allowing you to experiment a bit more with other parts of the build that can be weaker than if you used a combat style that required more focus and fine-tuning.
I think I'll skip the PSI stuff for that reason and just be a smooth operator/engineer with a passion for hucking bombs.

One of the limiting factors for gameplay seems to be the number of quickslots you get, and getting all of them requires super rare equipment.
(Because web belts and quick access pockets aren't easily craftable in the real world or anything...)
And come builds like crossbows require the use of them (crossbow ammo is weird).

[Ilovecheezecake]

If you want to experience most of underrail lore and content wise then psi is the way to go. Also skilling up lockpicking and hacking will oprn additional areas and pathways.
Only things i would check online is the max skill levels you need, so you do not overlevel them unnecessarily.

[Rand]

If you want to experience most of underrail lore and content wise then psi is the way to go. Also skilling up lockpicking and hacking will oprn additional areas and pathways.
Only things i would check online is the max skill levels you need, so you do not overlevel them unnecessarily.

Good to know, but the PSI isn't interesting to me.

[Ilovecheezecake]

But but but but MUH DEEP LORE

[Rand]

But but but but MUH DEEP LORE

Maybe with a second playthrough sometime, but it just seems to be too fiddly and restrictive to meet my reduced hassle criteria.

[rusty_shackleford]

Are there any RPGs with a fixed economy where no money is added during the game, just exchanged between NPCs and npc/player?

[maidenhaver]

I like Dragon Ruins 2, but I've done most novice quests, and there weren't any secrets.

Also, no spells, or gimmicks of any kind. 4 man parties suck.

I'm looking for a game that doesn't exist.

[maidenhaver]

What can be played that hasn't been played before?

[Rand]

I played around with Underrail before.
And looking more into it more seriously, I still don't like the game design philosophy of it.
The designer Styg veers way too hard into the "levelling choices difficulty = strategic depth" territory for me.

It always feels like I don't have enough attribute points, feat points, and especially skill points to make it enjoyable for me.
There's always something I feel I'm missing out on. Several things, in fact.
There's no point to being a master crafter if you can't actually hit with your weapons and kill the enemy.
Being a smooth talker helps right up until your weapons are pellet guns compared to the enemies' weaponry.
And sneaking is okay until you're in a mandatory set piece he designed to be immune to stealthing.

There should have been three choices in this game: heavy gunner (tank), light gunner (stealth hunter), and PSI.
There doesn't need to be two restrictive defense skills, five different crafting skills, and three different social skills all competing for too-scarce points.

If I play this, I'm cheating my *** off so I can experience as much of the game on one playthrough as possible.

[Acrux]

You can only play Stig's way. Not worth the trouble.

[rusty_shackleford]

Chad ATOM wins again

[Rand]

Chad ATOM wins again

Yeah, I really should finish that and play the sequel, Trudograd.

[rusty_shackleford]

I played around with Underrail before.
And looking more into it more seriously, I still don't like the game design philosophy of it.
The designer Styg veers way too hard into the "levelling choices difficulty = strategic depth" territory for me.

It always feels like I don't have enough attribute points, feat points, and especially skill points to make it enjoyable for me.
There's always something I feel I'm missing out on. Several things, in fact.
There's no point to being a master crafter if you can't actually hit with your weapons and kill the enemy.
Being a smooth talker helps right up until your weapons are pellet guns compared to the enemies' weaponry.
And sneaking is okay until you're in a mandatory set piece he designed to be immune to stealthing.

There should have been three choices in this game: heavy gunner (tank), light gunner (stealth hunter), and PSI.
There doesn't need to be two restrictive defense skills, five different crafting skills, and three different social skills all competing for too-scarce points.

If I play this, I'm cheating my *** off so I can experience as much of the game on one playthrough as possible.

It's very easy to create a non viable build in underrail and be forced to start over, I don't consider this to be good design. It's understandable if it happens on high difficulty in games, but not on a standard intended difficulty.

Anyone who argues it's good design is almost certainly arguing in bad faith because they just go and look up a build to use. Even worse, many of these builds(esp so on dominating), use classic XP which encourages level grinding.


Another example is alpha protocol, mandatory combat sections you couldn't have known about when making a character built entirely for stealth.

This is why I prefer typed skillpoints rather than one big pile of points. You don't feel penalized for making a character you find interesting. The game sets very clear guidelines for what it expects the character to be able to perform, and it becomes much harder to make a character that wouldn't exist. E.g., given your character's background in underrail, they'd logically be fairly well rounded.

Or if a game doesn't want you to have a well rounded character, don't make it a solo game. Someone might make a smooth talker then realize it's probably a good idea to hire a bodyguard.

[Rand]

This is why I prefer typed skillpoints rather than one big pile of points. You don't feel penalized for making a character you find interesting. The game sets very clear guidelines for what it expects the character to be able to perform, and it becomes much harder to make a character that wouldn't exist. E.g., given your character's background in underrail, they'd logically be fairly well rounded.

Or if a game doesn't want you to have a well rounded character, don't make it a solo game. Someone might make a smooth talker then realize it's probably a good idea to hire a bodyguard.

This jibes with the thought I had, which is separate skill pools for primary combat, backup combat, and the assorted skill types (stealth & subterfuge, mechanics & crafting, social, and PSI).
But I'm not sold on skills being so granular as to have point values in the 10s if not 100s like Underrail (and many others, even Fallout)
Because of **** like: "this skill check requires 125, but you have only 123 so you fail just as much as if you had a 0 skill", which just sucks.
Support skills should be more like feats with ranks: there is a base "engineering" skill used for both environmental stuff and crafting, and it can be at level untrained, basic, expert, advanced, master, or elite.

[MrTwinkls]

My main gripe with Underrail leveling system is that some skills are only good in their narrow niche, not on a level of ******* toaster repair in Wasteland but still. E.g. persuasion has no feats for combat, only affects dialogues when it could affect psi thought control and vice versa; mercantile doesn't help with crafting, getting spent ammo cases or resource hunting; stealth with pickpocketing, etc. Plus there are some feats to increase base abilities but none to affect skill points. And I hate that base abilities affect effective skill scores and not the base ones. Some kind of character origin perks, tagged skills (like in Fallout) or favorite food (no in-game cooking ) to help with specialization would be interesting too. Playing with oddity exp and loving it btw.
So to conclude leveling system in Underrail is too rigid but still better than most RPGs that I played. Now I want to see how Stygian developed it in the sequel.

[wndrbr]

I think Underrail's system is great, but only if you're playing on Medium difficulty level. On Hard and Dominating the game indeed becomes way too restrictive and rigid, but on Normal it gives you enough leeway to finish the campaign even with a suboptimal build.

[rusty_shackleford]

I typically don't like humor in RPGs, I was thinking on this and the ATOM games do have humor I suppose. It's just played very straightforward. It's not some meta-humor or self-referential humor, in joke, etc., I'd probably have to replay the games and take notes to analyze it.
Wasteland 3 falls completely flat for me, but the writing in the ATOM games is great. If you put 'serious' at -100 and 'whedon-marvel humor' at 100, Wasteland 3 is constantly pingponging between -100 and 100, often attempting both in the very same scene. Bethesda Fallouts do this too, I can't take anything here seriously. Notably, FNV did not have this issue, while it had some absurdities it was mostly played straight and the absurdities were either intentionally understated when mixed with serious topics or kept separate. Bethesda would have Joshua Graham making jokes about how caesar is actually a homosexual with one testicle.

ATOM will have e.g., the Jewish book salesman that is obviously still a joke, but very much grounded in the world. There's no tonal whiplash. The serious topics are usually taken very seriously, rather than just throwing a gag in because.

Dragon Age: Origins Alistair, and Anders - Oghren from Awakenings, does this too, and it is obnoxious. Entirely destroys immersion.

Can't find the quote right now, but Gaider stated that they had strict rules on how to write every character in DAO EXCEPT for Alistair.

@TKVNC

they're all speaking Czech so it's okay to translate it with modern terms

This is the reasoning lolcow-lizers use to justify their awful localizations.

Over a decade ago Bioware understood that using modern slang wasn't a good idea. They dropped it with Veilguard and suffered the consequences. Though it appears the masses find it perfectly acceptable to have KCD go from "we're trying to be as historically accurate as possible" to Hollywood slop writing.

[Tangerine]

Dragon Age: Origins Alistair, and Anders - Oghren from Awakenings, does this too, and it is obnoxious. Entirely destroys immersion.

Can't find the quote right now, but Gaider stated that they had strict rules on how to write every character in DAO EXCEPT for Alistair.

@TKVNC

they're all speaking Czech so it's okay to translate it with modern terms

This is the reasoning lolcow-lizers use to justify their awful localizations.

Over a decade ago Bioware understood that using modern slang wasn't a good idea. They dropped it with Veilguard and suffered the consequences. Though it appears the masses find it perfectly acceptable to have KCD go from "we're trying to be as historically accurate as possible" to Hollywood slop writing.

He's the first real companion you get and you'll probably stick with him for the first 8 hours of the game. Is it really in small doses if he's Joss Whedoning in every scene he's in?

[TKVNC]

Dragon Age: Origins Alistair, and Anders - Oghren from Awakenings, does this too, and it is obnoxious. Entirely destroys immersion.

Can't find the quote right now, but Gaider stated that they had strict rules on how to write every character in DAO EXCEPT for Alistair.

@TKVNC

they're all speaking Czech so it's okay to translate it with modern terms

This is the reasoning lolcow-lizers use to justify their awful localizations.

Over a decade ago Bioware understood that using modern slang wasn't a good idea. They dropped it with Veilguard and suffered the consequences. Though it appears the masses find it perfectly acceptable to have KCD go from "we're trying to be as historically accurate as possible" to Hollywood slop writing.

Somehow I'm not surprised. Alistair was obnoxious in Origins, honestly I dropped him as soon as I had Wynne.

[Element]

Cruelty squad 2 = rpg confirmed

[Lhynn]

what are some RPGs where I can get a bear companion?

Believe you can tame animals in svarogs dreams. And bears are pretty strong.

[Acrux]

There's a NWN2 EE listed on SteamDB, and it's not by Beamdog.

https://steamdb.info/app/2738630/history/

https://forums.beamdog.com/discussion/8 ... ed-edition

Ah, someone did some sleuthing and found it's probably from Aspyr based on the EULA. Nothing to see here.
https://store.steampowered.com/eula/2738630_eula_0

[Val the Moofia Boss]

New Trails game came out an hour ago, woohoo time to play-

Wait, what?

[Finarfin]

Which one of these should I start with? Way too many of them

[Rand]

@Val the Moofia Boss listed that somewhere but I can't find the posts.

@rusty_shackleford If Val the Moofia Boss responded to me by quoting me, how can I find that post using search terms?
I can search by author easily enough, but I can't figure out how (it it's even possible) to search by replies to a specific user as well.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

@Finarfin

the series is split into four arcs. The schtick is that it is a serialized JRPG series set in the same setting with the same cast of characters and overarching subplots that cross multiple games. The charm used to be its late renaissance/early modern setting where airships have just been invented and that is leading to the eroding of old power structures, the formation of the almighty state, and an escalating cold war between two aggressive powers. You pick the arc that most appeals through you and start at its first game and then play through its sequels. Ie, if the Erebonian Empire arc appeals to you, then you start at Trails of Cold Steel 1 and then play CS2 > CS3 > CS4 > Reverie. If Trails in the Sky appeals to you then play Sky 1 > 2 > 3. The new game is Kuro 2 so you're supposed to play Kuro 1 before that. You can start at Kuro 1 (localized as Daybreak) if you want, but my personal recommendation would be to start at either Sky 1 or CS1. Sky 1 is "only" 40-50 hours long (as opposed to the 90+ hours each game becomes starting with CS1) and the second half of the story is interesting. CS1 is my favorite due to the fantasy Prussia setting, civil turmoil and cold war feel, the magitek airships and mechs, noble swordsmen wearing trenchcoats and cravats practicing special styles of swordsmanship in their dojos, etc. It has very engaging combat and character building when played on hard and nightmare difficulty. You can also start at the other two arcs, Crossbell and Kuro, but they take place in boring modern urban cities, have structural problems where you spend too much time talking to NPCs which defuses the tension, combat isn't as engaging, etc.

I was planning on recommending the first Trails in the Sky for the adventurer's guild. I think the codex would enjoy CS1 more, but that's a 90+ hour long commitment whereas Sky is half that length and they have since patched in turbo mode so you can skip through the boring parts.


















@Rand this might be the post you were thinking of.

What about the other trails games? Have heard great things

The series is divided into four arcs. The first two arcs, the Trails in the Sky trilogy and the Crossbell duology are grossly overrated, but I found them entertaining enough to at least finish. I have played every game up through Kuro no Kiseki 1.

I quite enjoyed the first Trails in the Sky game. It has a boring first 20 hours, forgettable sidequests, and mediocre combat, but I really liked the coup storyline that begins in chapter 3 when you reach the city of Zeiss. I replayed the first Sky game a couple years ago and it still holds up as my favorite Trails game outside of the Cold Steel saga. The second Sky game is where you see a lot of problems that regularly plague the franchise begin to crop up, namely filler chapters where you chase a supervillain around and then he teleports away and you have just spent 20 hours accomplishing nothing. The third Sky game has some fun combat and character building, though it becomes a little bitter storywise when you realize that they set up all of these interesting plot threads that will be discarded or have botched payoffs in future games.

The Crossbell duology are my least favorite Trails games. Trails in the Sky and Trails of Cold Steel take place in a pre-modern setting, where an industrial revolution has just happened a few decades ago and only maybe one house per town has a switchboard, cars are rare and most people walk along the road or ride a horse, people gather around at the tavern to listen to crackling radio broadcasts, people wear old timey clothes and dresses and so on. Etc. But then you reach Crossbell and it takes in a modern urban city with brutalist architecture, modern investment banks, everyone has an LCD screen broadcasting live television in color, people wear modern clothes, everyone has a modern looking car, etc. It didn't transport me to another world like Sky and Cold Steel did. Another issue is that the 100 hour long duology primarily takes place in the same city. You don't really journey through the wilds and visit many different settlements like in Sky or Cold Steel. I did not like the cast either, and the combat is downgraded from Sky the 3rd. The plot suffers from feeling like filler, as overall nothing you do really matters. Lastly, the protagonists make absolutely infuriating decisions at the end of the second game that made me despise them and Crossbell and their involvement in future games. Just for that, I would never replay Crossbell.




For Trails of Cold Steel, I became very immersed in the setting. It has cool mechs. I found the characters to be likeable. I got invested in the story, which was pretty good in the first two games. The writing starts becoming really wonky from CS3 onward, and the presence of those damnable Crossbellians detracted from my enjoyment, but I still generally liked the (Erebonian) setting and (Erebonian) characters. Reverie has a fun plot and lets you mix and match your favorite Cold Steel characters from 50 party members. The CS games have my favorite combat and character building system in the franchise. CS1 and CS2 are pretty challenging all the way through on nightmare difficulty. CS3 onward has an issue where the difficulty is frontloaded, but then it becomes easier as it goes on and by the end there is no challenge whatsoever. The first two CS games had an above average English dub.

Kuro no Kiseki/Trails Through Daybreak I posted an indepth review of here on HQ. It feels like Crossbell 2.0 in that it is set in a boring modern urban cities with people in boring modern clothes and everyone owns a car and so on. Unlike Crossbell, though, it is not almost entirely set in one city so there is a bit more variety, though you still don't get to hike across the world like in Sky or in Cold Steel. The cast is overall quite bland. Has the most boring combat in the series. I played on max difficulty and only wiped once. None of the bosses were interesting. Character building isn't as fun as in Cold Steel. Kuro 1 suffers from the same issue that plagued Sky 2, Crossbell, CS3, and much of CS4 in that it is mostly filler chapters where you chase a supervillain around who then teleports away and you have accomplished nothing. Still, I could see myself maybe replaying it one day.

Overall my ratings would be:

• 10/10 (Masterpiece) - Trails of Cold Steel II
• 9/10 (Great) - Trails of Cold Steel I, Trails in the Sky the 3rd
• 8/10 (Very Good) Trails in the Sky FC, Trails into Reverie
• 7/10 (Good) Trails of Cold Steel IV, Trails of Cold Steel III
• 6/10 (Fine) Kuro no Kiseki 1
• 5/10 (Average) Trails in the Sky SC, Zero no Kiseki
• 4/10 (Bad) Ao no Kiseki (overall game is probably a 5/10 but I hate the ending so much. What were they thinking?)

[Rand]

@Rand this might be the post you were thinking of.

It's one of them, thanks.

[rusty_shackleford]

average jrpg: uguu am I pretty sama-san? ~~
average chinkrpg: I have reincarnated for 77 lifetimes to perfect my Whispering Blade Fells Mountain technique, my mind knows nothing but dedication

[Roguey]

https://www.newsweek.com/entertainment/ ... 26-2036005

Microsoft has announced that Playground Games' upcoming revival of the Fable series has suffered a major delay, with the release date slipping from the previously announced 2025 to 2026.

The announcement was made via an official Xbox Game Studios podcast, where Head of Xbox Game Studios Craig Duncan revealed that Playground Games was going to be spending more time on the game to make it the best it can be.

"We previously announced the date for Fable as 2025," Duncan says, "We are actually going to give Fable more time and it's going to ship in 2026 now. While I know that's not maybe the news people want to hear, what I want to assure people of is that it's definitely worth the wait. And I have unequivocal confidence in the Playground team."

Worth the wait indeed. Outer Worlds 2 getting the latter part of 2025 all to itself, let's stagger out the slop.

[Rand]

Say what you will about Wartales and the frogs that make it, but they're dedicated to making their game the best that they can (they're ********, though..)
I give them due credit them for using No Man's Sky ongoing development playbook and adding to their game in good faith and for the enjoyment of their players.


https://store.steampowered.com/news/app ... 2115971437