Do you prefer classes or classless systems?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

/title

Personally, I prefer classes as they can deliver on more potent aesthetic class fantasies (that are also defined by what they cannot do) than a classless system where the lines are blurred and everyone is just some generic character who has the potential to do anything.

[TKVNC]

Classless - but I have a good reason for it - you should have archetypes (like fighter, etc) but without being firmly locked into them -- however... You should not be able to have infinity stats.

[Humbaba]

I'm in favor of giving you a large catalogue of positive and negative traits to mix and match with. There is one such system but I forgot its name. I also think that's how Shadowrun works.

[Tweed]

I don't care.

[Stack of Turtles]

The middle ground is best, like TKVNC said. I've never seen the "traits grab bag" work well... traits are never balanced against each other so "be better at everything" and "do one weird funny niche thing" take up exactly the same slot, and everyone ends up using the same five or so good traits.

[Tweed]

The middle ground is best, like TKVNC said. I've never seen the "traits grab bag" work well... traits are never balanced against each other so "be better at everything" and "do one weird funny niche thing" take up exactly the same slot, and everyone ends up using the same five or so good traits.

Underrail does it just fine. The biggest deciding factor is whether or not you're going to be stealthy and if you're going to craft, other than that you're open for what you can make (or at least attempt to make). If you fail the Depot A test then it's back to the drawing board.

[TKVNC]

The middle ground is best, like TKVNC said. I've never seen the "traits grab bag" work well... traits are never balanced against each other so "be better at everything" and "do one weird funny niche thing" take up exactly the same slot, and everyone ends up using the same five or so good traits.

Underrail does it just fine. The biggest deciding factor is whether or not you're going to be stealthy and if you're going to craft, other than that you're open for what you can make (or at least attempt to make). If you fail the Depot A test then it's back to the drawing board.

I think the primary issue a lot of games have is that there is no way around the combat in a lot of situations, so you're effectively compelled to make a fighter of some sort.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

The middle ground is best, like TKVNC said. I've never seen the "traits grab bag" work well... traits are never balanced against each other so "be better at everything" and "do one weird funny niche thing" take up exactly the same slot, and everyone ends up using the same five or so good traits.

Underrail does it just fine. The biggest deciding factor is whether or not you're going to be stealthy and if you're going to craft, other than that you're open for what you can make (or at least attempt to make). If you fail the Depot A test then it's back to the drawing board.

I think the primary issue a lot of games have is that there is no way around the combat in a lot of situations, so you're effectively compelled to make a fighter of some sort.

RPG devs seem to be unable to imagine cathartic climaxes that are not fighting a big bad, and if it is a game without combat then it is typically not an RPG like we think of them but one of those puzzle games like Factorio or kidys platformer or something. The Banner Saga 3 climaxing in a negotiation/dialogue is the only RPG I can think of off of the top of my head. Can't recall any RPGs like the Dragonriders of Pern novels where there is little to no combat but still high tension and adventuring and use of powers required (the Pern videogame was mainly centered around combat).

[maidenhaver]

Classless for arpg.

[WaterMage]

Depends a lot on the game propose. I don't think that Classes would work in UnderRail. That said, most classless RPGs are gear farming cooldown managing Barbie dressing game with little to no RPG on it. Hence in modern games, I prefer RPGs with classes. In older RPGs, I prefer classless, I like that in Gothic 1, if you want to be a mage, you need to convince a mage to take you as an apprentice and can use any weapon and armor.

[AliciaDurge]

Depens on the game, but mostly I prefer classes. It’s simple and easy to build on within resources of the game.

[Tweed]

The middle ground is best, like TKVNC said. I've never seen the "traits grab bag" work well... traits are never balanced against each other so "be better at everything" and "do one weird funny niche thing" take up exactly the same slot, and everyone ends up using the same five or so good traits.

Underrail does it just fine. The biggest deciding factor is whether or not you're going to be stealthy and if you're going to craft, other than that you're open for what you can make (or at least attempt to make). If you fail the Depot A test then it's back to the drawing board.

I think the primary issue a lot of games have is that there is no way around the combat in a lot of situations, so you're effectively compelled to make a fighter of some sort.

Underrail is built around it and doesn't pretend otherwise, if you're a stealth character you can avoid a lot more encounter and some can be avoided with speech skills, but you're not doing a pacifist run and Tchort isn't going to hug it out with you, that's what tentacle hentai is for.

[maidenhaver]

Talking it out with the final boss is always faggy ****.

[maidenhaver]

A true choose your own ending would include stealthily ignoring the final boss.

[UltraFan123]

I like how Tyranny does skill-based and trait-based abilities.

You can be a spellcaster with all the heavy armor you want, but if you want to be a good caster then you must marry the mage staff and forsake all other weapons, even if you can use any weapon if you want.

Also, it's impossible to excel at all forms of magic because proficiency depends in how frequently you use particular spells of a specific element, so if again you want to be a decent caster you must focus in as little elements as possible because otherwise your spells will be inferior to those of a specialized mage.

Fighters are similar; if you want to excel in combat then you must focus in just one particular type of style, either weapon and shield, two weapons, a single huge weapon, or long-range weapons. Because if you're the type to play around with all weapons simply because you can then your weapon skills will be mediocre.

[Unhelpful Contrarian]

Classes all the way.Skyrim was the first RPG I played that was Classless and it was awful.

[GhostCow]

I prefer classless because it gives me more freedom to build my character how I want and offers more replayability

[Magick]

Class. But I like it where they give you a weaker secondary. If they add a bit of "learning" other stuff on top then that's fine.

I always like to play the glass cannon mage. The complete freedom ones just end up leaving me a bit of a mess. I like to know my strengths and weaknesses fro the start and go from there, and see everyone else having theirs.

We're all naturally good at different stuff, it's not all pure learning. Not everyone is a complete blank slate.

[Irenaeus]

Classes but some classless games are pretty cool.

[DagothGeas5]

I prefer classes, but the likes of how World of Warcraft Ascension server (build your own class) handles classless I found unexpectedly pleasant to customize and invent my own playstyle.

[UltraFan123]

I like it where they give you a weaker secondary. If they add a bit of "learning" other stuff on top then that's fine.

I'm reminded of the class system that the never-coming MMO Ashes of Creation will supposedly have.

450px-Ashes_of_Creation_Class_List.jpg

Sorry for the low quality pic since this is the only one I could find.

The idea of giving you the choice to specialize in just one thing or have a secondary sub-class to complement your main one always sounds good for player freedom and customization.

In the class chart above it also shows how the primary class that was chosen first affects the trajectory of how the secondary class will develop the build.

Starting first as a [Fighter] then picking [Mage] as a side makes you a [Spellsword] that uses magic to complement melee combat, while picking the classes in opposite order instead makes you a [Battle Mage] that uses weapons to complement spellcasting.

I would really like it if one day there's a single-player CRPG that implements a class combination system like this one.

[rusty_shackleford]

it doesn't matter

[Xenich]

Depends on mood honestly.

[Tangerine]

I like classes in fantasy games and classless in sci-fi/sci-fantasy games.

[Breathe]

Much prefer classes and the interplay between them. Personally, I just find it more entertaining and interesting. Even in fps games I steered toward class based games like BF.

[Just Locus]

Classless for ARPGs because they often have a very narrow focus - killing things, everything else is just what kind of flavor appeals to you the most.

Classes for cRPGs/RPGs because constraining the player's ability to level up will force them to roleplay their character mechanically in a nicer, more intuitive way. It also improves replay value. Obviously if you're going for a more sandbox-y kind of feel, than maybe classless is also the way to go.

[WhiteShark]

I prefer classless because it gives me more freedom to build my character how I want and offers more replayability

I find classes to be more replayable than classless because classless strongly incentivizes making the same amorphous blob of optimal traits every time.

[Just Locus]

You could disincentivize jack-of-all-trades builds by giving perks a downside that the player has to consider, which will gradually build up to a specialized character over time. Most just opt for a classless system because players just opt for the path of least resistance and making it so they don't even have to think about the progression is the more monetarily safe option

[MrTwinkls]

Gameplay-wise I prefer classless but if a game narrative acknowledges your choice when creating a character and game world heavily reacts to it then classes.

[rusty_shackleford]

It doesn't matter and I think many have it backwards. Going to do a much longer form of this when I get some time.

Food to chew on: Gothic 2 has some of the weakest 'rpg elements', and is one of the games that best represents the genre.