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The ESRB wants to start using facial scanning technology to check people's ages

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The ESRB wants to start using facial scanning technology to check people's ages

Post by Segata »

https://www.pcgamer.com/the-esrb-wants- ... ples-ages/

The ESRB wants to start using facial scanning technology to check people's ages

Remember a couple years ago, when Chinese gaming giant Tencent began using facial recognition to keep the kids from playing too many videogames? It turns out that the Entertainment Software Rating Board, North America's videogame rating agency, is looking to do something quite similar.

The ESRB, along with digital identity company Yoti and Epic Games-owned "youth digital media" company SuperAwesome, have filed a proposal with the FTC seeking approval for a new "verifiable parental consent mechanism" called Privacy-Protective Facial Age Estimation. Simply put, the parent takes a selfie, assisted by an "auto face capture module," which is then analyzed by the system to ensure it's the face of an adult, who can then grant whatever permissions are required. The entire process of verification takes less than a second "on average," and images are permanently deleted after the verification is complete.

"The upload of still images is not accepted, and photos that do not meet the required level of quality to create an age estimate are rejected," the filing states. "These factors minimize the risk of circumvention and of children taking images of unaware adults."

Of course, kids outsmarting the system isn't the only risk at play here. Accuracy strikes me as the big one, given that facial recognition technology is so notoriously racist: A study conducted in the US, for instance, found that Asian and African American people were up to 100 times more likely to be incorrectly identified by facial recognition systems than white people. And maybe I'm underestimating the magic at work here but determining whether someone is 16 or 18 based on a single selfie also strikes me as a real roll of the dice. The ESRB dismissed concerns about the "fairness" of the system, however, saying that "the difference in rejection rates between gender and skin tone is very small."

"The data suggests that for those between 25 and 35, 15 out of 1,000 females vs 7 out of 1,000 males might be incorrectly classified as under-25 (and would have the option of verifying using another method)," the filing states. "The range of difference by skin tone is between 8 out of 1,000 vs 28 out of 1,000. While bias exists, as is inherent in any automated system, this is not material, especially as compared to the benefits and the increase in access to certain groups of parents."

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It's important to note that none of this is proposed as a replacement for current systems: Instead, the ESRB presented its facial age verification plan as "an additional, optional verification method" that will be of particular use to people who don't have photo ID. In a statement send to PC Gamer, Yoti also noted that the system works without actually recognizing or identifying individuals: Instead, the technology simply estimates the age of the image it sees.

That's all good, but in my eyes it doesn't change the fact that, yeah, this really is a gross invasion of privacy—I sure as hell don't want to be sharing my mug with the Great Digital Overmind just so my hypothetical kid can play some GTA Online. Quite honestly, I also don't think relying on potentially-dodgy technology to enforce our social mores is such a great idea to begin with. And come on, does anyone seriously think that a sharp 16-year-old won't have this system beat in about 15 minutes anyway?

The ESRB actually made its request to the FTC back on June 2, but it's only come to light now (via GamesIndustry) because the FTC is now seeking public comment on the plan. If you'd like to share your thoughts, you've got until August 21 to do so at federalregister.gov.
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Post by Segata »

Segata Sanshiro wrote: July 25th, 2023, 17:39
Of course, kids outsmarting the system isn't the only risk at play here. Accuracy strikes me as the big one, given that facial recognition technology is so notoriously racist
******* lol, it's always like this. No "such invasive technology could start a problematic dystopian trend" but "what about muh raycisssums?????". I guess it will be back to the "drink verification can" method so Tyrone doesn't get oppressed.

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Post by Gunnar »

Normalizing dystopia
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Post by WhiteShark »

Segata Sanshiro wrote: July 25th, 2023, 17:39
While bias exists, as is inherent in any automated system,
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Post by The_Mask »

This is very very creepy. I'm not sure what those people are thinking.
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Post by Segata »

The_Mask wrote: July 25th, 2023, 20:56
This is very very creepy. I'm not sure what those people are thinking.
"Zu vill have no privacy, zu vill submit to the social credit system"

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Post by aweigh »

would be funny to deny zoomers the joy of the new ***** sex scenes in last of us part 3.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

I'd support this as long as it was required, by law or regulation, to be optional. Like a more advanced form of parental control chips in TVs.

If an X-rated site detects that the user requires facial authorization, then it uses it, for example.
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Post by Gunnar »

Why would you support it when it's creating another system of control that can be used against you? Even if they rolled it out with such a law, it would be a simple matter to change the law later once the system is accepted by everyone.
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Post by The_Mask »

I dislike this as a tool to teach AI about people. I don't know, this feels very creepy.
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rusty_shackleford wrote: October 28th, 2024, 07:36
Mediocre or bad games can still have parts that are good.
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Post by Ratcatcher »

It will be implemented small scale, as a test. It will fail tho, as your average teen jogger will register as a full fledged adult thug because, duh. Once underage rocket surgeon can access BG3 upcoming R rated DLC ("The turgor of MAPs & Lolis", working title) the whole thing will be deemed a rayciss fiasco and quietly swept under the rug.


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Post by A12 »

rusty_shackleford wrote: July 25th, 2023, 21:17
I'd support this as long as it was required, by law or regulation, to be optional. Like a more advanced form of parental control chips in TVs.

If an X-rated site detects that the user requires facial authorization, then it uses it, for example.
Nah ***** personally the simple fact that an avenue like this even exists is enough to dissuade me from supporting it. Like sure it might be "optional" at first but who's to say that further regulation wont get enacted to broaden its scope?
regardless i think this is still baseless media **** as of yet cause the "logistics" of an facual recognition server/model is still too expensive to be practical
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Gunnar wrote: July 25th, 2023, 21:34
Why would you support it when it's creating another system of control that can be used against you? Even if they rolled it out with such a law, it would be a simple matter to change the law later once the system is accepted by everyone.
If laws can be used against people, should we just abolish all laws?
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Post by Acrux »

This shouldn't pass because there are a lot of consumer protection and privacy laws aimed at kids in the US. But, we're no longer in a sane world so anything goes.
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Post by The_Mask »

Imagine kids starting to steal masks just to fool the filter? Kids watching Mission Impossible hating on Tom Cruise because he can change into anyone.

Imagine people providing masking services? Imagine the industry you'd be creating?

I chose my nickname because I liked a comicbook when I was a kid, but turns out, I was just predicting the future.
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rusty_shackleford wrote: October 28th, 2024, 07:36
Mediocre or bad games can still have parts that are good.
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Post by MadPreacher »

rusty_shackleford wrote: July 25th, 2023, 21:48
Gunnar wrote: July 25th, 2023, 21:34
Why would you support it when it's creating another system of control that can be used against you? Even if they rolled it out with such a law, it would be a simple matter to change the law later once the system is accepted by everyone.
If laws can be used against people, should we just abolish all laws?
I didn't realize that the government was the parent and master in the US. I believe you have it inversed as the people are the parents and masters. I'm tired of ceding my rights over quote common unquote sense. The common sense alternative is let the parents handle it. It's disappointing to hear that you supported the Soviet Union in all this.
Last edited by MadPreacher on July 25th, 2023, 22:01, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by A12 »

Acrux wrote: July 25th, 2023, 21:48
This shouldn't pass because there are a lot of consumer protection and privacy laws aimed at kids in the US. But, we're no longer in a sane world so anything goes.
Maybe in the EU, but i aint surprised if regulation like this is supported in the US cause of the moral panic surrounding video violent games
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Post by aweigh »

rusty_shackleford wrote: July 25th, 2023, 21:48
Gunnar wrote: July 25th, 2023, 21:34
Why would you support it when it's creating another system of control that can be used against you? Even if they rolled it out with such a law, it would be a simple matter to change the law later once the system is accepted by everyone.
If laws can be used against people, should we just abolish all laws?
the way i see it systems of law are basically the enforcement of a society's moral values, so highly invasive laws like this communicate something problematic with the society at large.

that's why not upholding laws is also a statement on the current state of morality.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

aweigh wrote: July 25th, 2023, 21:59
rusty_shackleford wrote: July 25th, 2023, 21:48
Gunnar wrote: July 25th, 2023, 21:34
Why would you support it when it's creating another system of control that can be used against you? Even if they rolled it out with such a law, it would be a simple matter to change the law later once the system is accepted by everyone.
If laws can be used against people, should we just abolish all laws?
the way i see it systems of law are basically the enforcement of a society's moral values, so highly invasive laws like this communicate something problematic with the society at large.

that's why not upholding laws is also a statement on the current state of morality.
you're right, we should ban porn instead
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Post by MadPreacher »

aweigh wrote: July 25th, 2023, 21:59
rusty_shackleford wrote: July 25th, 2023, 21:48
Gunnar wrote: July 25th, 2023, 21:34
Why would you support it when it's creating another system of control that can be used against you? Even if they rolled it out with such a law, it would be a simple matter to change the law later once the system is accepted by everyone.
If laws can be used against people, should we just abolish all laws?
the way i see it systems of law are basically the enforcement of a society's moral values, so highly invasive laws like this communicate something problematic with the society at large.

that's why not upholding laws is also a statement on the current state of morality.
You know the government is going to do an end run around the Fourth Amendment's protections by purchasing the data and use it against you when they can.
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Post by aweigh »

rusty_shackleford wrote: July 25th, 2023, 22:02
aweigh wrote: July 25th, 2023, 21:59
rusty_shackleford wrote: July 25th, 2023, 21:48


If laws can be used against people, should we just abolish all laws?
the way i see it systems of law are basically the enforcement of a society's moral values, so highly invasive laws like this communicate something problematic with the society at large.

that's why not upholding laws is also a statement on the current state of morality.
you're right, we should ban porn instead
would you include gravure under porn?
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Post by Gunnar »

rusty_shackleford wrote: July 25th, 2023, 21:48
Gunnar wrote: July 25th, 2023, 21:34
Why would you support it when it's creating another system of control that can be used against you? Even if they rolled it out with such a law, it would be a simple matter to change the law later once the system is accepted by everyone.
If laws can be used against people, should we just abolish all laws?
This argument doesn't even follow what I said, makes no sense and doesn't address the issue that I'm pointing out, it's basically a non-sequitor.

The law can be changed. That's the issue. They do this all the time, introduce something with controls and then later remove the controls. A law isn't going to stop them from using this tech the way they want to.
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Post by KnightoftheWind »

This stuff will be optional, until it isn't. Give them an inch, they take an entire country.
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Post by Tweed »

Next up, tissue samples, spit swabs, sperm count, and microchips.
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Post by Atlantico »

rusty_shackleford wrote: July 25th, 2023, 21:17
I'd support this as long as it was required, by law or regulation, to be optional. Like a more advanced form of parental control chips in TVs.
I don't support this because I don't think anyone, not private corporations, individuals or the government, should be able to harvest, use and/or process biometric data.

The only laws on this or any similar matter should be a blanket ban on such data harvesting and processing.

I wouldn't give my fingerprint at a convenience store to buy a beer. Showing ID to another human is fine. Scanning your face to "guess your age" is not.
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Post by Humbaba »

rusty_shackleford wrote: July 25th, 2023, 21:17
I'd support this as long as it was required, by law or regulation, to be optional. Like a more advanced form of parental control chips in TVs.

If an X-rated site detects that the user requires facial authorization, then it uses it, for example.
Are you ********? Our so called free speech paladin is defending authoritarian surveillance tech "if it's optional" and by optional he means if companies are allowed to freely utilise it. No moral hazard there, nope not at all. Holy ****.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Humbaba wrote: July 26th, 2023, 11:25
rusty_shackleford wrote: July 25th, 2023, 21:17
I'd support this as long as it was required, by law or regulation, to be optional. Like a more advanced form of parental control chips in TVs.

If an X-rated site detects that the user requires facial authorization, then it uses it, for example.
Are you ********? Our so called free speech paladin is defending authoritarian surveillance tech "if it's optional" and by optional he means if companies are allowed to freely utilise it. No moral hazard there, nope not at all. Holy ****.
I'm not sure if you guys even bothered reading what I typed before picking up your torch and pitchforks.
I favored it as an opt-in on the client side. If a device has such a feature, it must be required to be used.

Altho the entire thing could be avoided just by having a security mechanism that blocks content deemed adult-only on devices that are flagged as protected.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

If I had an easy way to detect if someone is under 18 and block them from this site I'd do it btw.
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Post by Humbaba »

rusty_shackleford wrote: July 26th, 2023, 12:20
I favored it as an opt-in on the client side. If a device has such a feature, it must be required to be used.
Oh **** that's even stupider. Let's give the normies the opportunity to submit themselves to state or company surveillance. Not to mention that this "client side feature" would be made mandatory by most tech companies in short order.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Humbaba wrote: July 26th, 2023, 12:30
rusty_shackleford wrote: July 26th, 2023, 12:20
I favored it as an opt-in on the client side. If a device has such a feature, it must be required to be used.
Oh **** that's even stupider. Let's give the normies the opportunity to submit themselves to state or company surveillance. Not to mention that this "client side feature" would be made mandatory by most tech companies in short order.
You're right, just remove all laws and regulations because they may be used improperly.
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