No Alphabets 7.1 — Baldur's Gate 3

[rusty_shackleford]

I suspect it probably wasn't that difficult but we have nobody actually trained to do it anymore.

[Faceless_Sentinel]

Yeah, no ****. But having difficulty buckling a hundred straps on your back doesn't mean that you lose mobility on the battlefield.

Perhaps not. But I hear somewhere that medieval full plate is so heavy that if a knight fell off his horse, he won't be able to get up. Carrying up to 110 pounds with your whole body is a massive stamina drain and greatly affects your mobility. That's why they put knights on horses and not run around the battlefield on foot like a ordinary soldier. And full plate is expensive, only sons of noble houses can afford it. So there is more in the life of a knight than just wearing his heavy load and swinging his sword. They are not battle monks. Also this:https://www.livescience.com/15128-armor ... nergy.html

All of this is ********.
There are videos in this very thread of people in full armor doing flips and getting up from prone in seconds.
Nice phrasing on the "up to 110 pounds." A typical suit of full plate weighs about 55 pounds. That is less than a standard combat load for a US army soldier (about 80 pounds).
Knights were a warrior class. Their prestige and privileges come from the fact that their job is to fight in wars. If there are no wars, they train (tournaments and ****).
Also this "study" you linked is about a literal LARPer walking on a treadmill in his replica suit of armor. He's not a "son of a noble house" who trained for war since childhood and could afford a battle-ready suit of full plate with proper weight distribution.
Are you gonna tell me that swords weren't sharp and were just used to bash open full plate armor next?

Would you give some links to prove your point? As you can see people here don't know much about medival armor, to them video you mentioned indistinguishable from lany larpers or cosplayers videos.

[Kain]

All of this is ********.
There are videos in this very thread of people in full armor doing flips and getting up from prone in seconds.
Nice phrasing on the "up to 110 pounds." A typical suit of full plate weighs about 55 pounds. That is less than a standard combat load for a US army soldier (about 80 pounds).
Knights were a warrior class. Their prestige and privileges come from the fact that their job is to fight in wars. If there are no wars, they train (tournaments and ****).
Also this "study" you linked is about a literal LARPer walking on a treadmill in his replica suit of armor. He's not a "son of a noble house" who trained for war since childhood and could afford a battle-ready suit of full plate with proper weight distribution.
Are you gonna tell me that swords weren't sharp and were just used to bash open full plate armor next?

Running around with the weight distributed all over your body and mainly on your back are 2 different things. Carrying that weight while pointing and shooting is different from carrying that and swinging a sword. As we move toward the 19th century, people who use full armor become less and less. Crossbow and gun power are now dismiss the full plate's protective power, and they become deadweight. Also, knights only start wearing this suit when they enter adulthood, when their bodies stop growing. Knights, as members of the nobility, rule over the mass of the army, which is made up of the peasant class. Their armor serves as a symbol of social status and a protective measure. If a knight falls in battle, he will likely be taken prisoner rather than be killed. And even in the worst case, his body can still be returned for ransom. So, while they have more combat training than the ordinary peasant, they are not gods of war nor super warriors, and will never run on foot unless they have to. Wearing full plate + fighting on foot + prolong battle => out of breath => toast.

[Kain]

Would you give some links to prove your point? As you can see people here don't know much about medival armor, to them video you mentioned indistinguishable from lany larpers or cosplayers videos.

Just put on your face mask, wear a 25-pound bag and try to punch and kick a sandbag for 5 minutes straight.

[Magick]

Would you give some links to prove your point? As you can see people here don't know much about medival armor, to them video you mentioned indistinguishable from lany larpers or cosplayers videos.

Just put on your face mask, wear a 25-pound bag and try to punch and kick a sandbag for 5 minutes straight.

No one has said its weightless or doesn't restrict mobility or breathing / heat management at all.
Of course it does, compared to nothing. But the tradeoff is protection.

It also protects perfectly well vs ranged weapons (not so much guns after a certain period). Watch arrows vs armour.


What IS ******** is suggesting that one couldn't get up from the floor etc, when you have a video of modern day dude literally doing pressups and moving just fine. It clearly wasn't that bad.

[Kain]

No one has said its weightless or doesn't restrict mobility or breathing / heat management at all.
Of course it does, compared to nothing. But the tradeoff is protection.

It also protects perfectly well vs ranged weapons (not so much guns after a certain period). Watch arrows vs armour.


What IS ******** is suggesting that one couldn't get up from the floor etc, when you have a video of modern day dude literally doing pressups and moving just fine. It clearly wasn't that bad.

Modern day dude wearing armor make by modern smith, which have much less weight and restriction than the medieval version of it. And if you fall off your horse while wearing such heavy armor, the impact may paralyze you, and you are unable to get up at all. It's also easier to pin down a guy who is wearing heavy armor than one who doesn't.

[Magick]

No one has said its weightless or doesn't restrict mobility or breathing / heat management at all.
Of course it does, compared to nothing. But the tradeoff is protection.

It also protects perfectly well vs ranged weapons (not so much guns after a certain period). Watch arrows vs armour.


What IS ******** is suggesting that one couldn't get up from the floor etc, when you have a video of modern day dude literally doing pressups and moving just fine. It clearly wasn't that bad.

Modern day dude wearing armor make by modern smith, which have much less weight and restriction than the medieval version of it. And if you fall off your horse while wearing such heavy armor, the impact may paralyze you, and you are unable to get up at all. It's also easier to pin down a guy who is wearing heavy armor than one who doesn't.

...so?

I'm heavier wearing clothes than I am without, I still wear them because the benefit is worth it.
If the benefit was literally life and death, I would train to ensure it doesn't hamper me that I cannot do what I need to do, as people did back then.

Falling off a horse in no armour can paralyse you too. Happened to one of the supermen actors.
Irrelevant.

Properly made armour was very flexible. This whole "can't get up" stuff is BS.
Sure one needed decent stamina to wear it, but that comes through training. They weren't sat in office chairs all day.

Seriously watch arrows vs armour 2. The SHAPE of the armour matters the most.

[Kain]

Heavy armor is only worth it if you have a horse to ride on, or fight a defensive battle, as it can stop arrows. But if you have to run around on foot, it's dead weight, training or no. I have experience with fighting hand-to-hand while wearing spot armor, which has much less weight and restriction than plate armor. But even with that, it quickly drains my stamina with all the heart generates while moving around. Also, heavy armor won't save you if your opponent decides to bash you with a blunt weapon like a mace, or piece through it with a war pick. Historically, armies with heavy armor tend to lose to those with much lighter equipment in prolonged battles.

[Kain]

Laughing at me won't change the fact that armies stopped using full plates in the 17th century. They ditch extra protection for better mobility.

[Tangerine]

Laughing at me won't change the fact that armies stopped using full plates in the 17th century. They ditch extra protection for better mobility.

Do you think they stopped using full plate because they collectively decided it was just too darn heavy, or do you think there may have been some other reason it was dropped?

[DagothGeas5]

For the below, at 8:32 (on phone and can't do the timestamp thing)

[Kain]

Do you think they stopped using full plate because they collectively decided it was just too darn heavy, or do you think there may have been some other reason it was dropped?

I think it's because centuries of fighting teach them that out of breath soldiers are dead soldiers. It makes me think of darksouls games where the top players mostly use light armor or no armor at all.

[TKVNC]

No one has said its weightless or doesn't restrict mobility or breathing / heat management at all.
Of course it does, compared to nothing. But the tradeoff is protection.

It also protects perfectly well vs ranged weapons (not so much guns after a certain period). Watch arrows vs armour.


What IS ******** is suggesting that one couldn't get up from the floor etc, when you have a video of modern day dude literally doing pressups and moving just fine. It clearly wasn't that bad.

Modern day dude wearing armor make by modern smith, which have much less weight and restriction than the medieval version of it. And if you fall off your horse while wearing such heavy armor, the impact may paralyze you, and you are unable to get up at all. It's also easier to pin down a guy who is wearing heavy armor than one who doesn't.

****, look how paralysed poor Mike Loades is.

You're talking complete ****. Armour actually protects you if you fall.

I think it's because centuries of fighting teach them that out of breath soldiers are dead soldiers. It makes me think of darksouls games where the top players mostly use light armor or no armor at all.

Real life is not a video game. Watch MMA and other combat sports to see paralels, you never just wail on people, you plan, time, and execute your attacks. In battles too, you fought in a unit, not in a duel, tired men were swapped out with fresher men.

They stopped using armour because it became less and less useful against guns; yet plate was still used in the 19th century, just less of it.

[LemonDemonGirl]

Oh my god, it's a video game.

[Rand]

Laughing at me won't change the fact that armies stopped using full plates in the 17th century. They ditch extra protection for better mobility.

It wasn't useful protection anymore because of the proliferation of effective guns and heavy crossbows. Melee was deprecated.
But they still wore helmets and breast and backplates into the 18th century because melee weapons were still used sometimes.

[Kain]

Oh my god, it's a video game.

Stamina management is the same. If you ever enter a fighting ring in your life.

[logincrash]

Do you think they stopped using full plate because they collectively decided it was just too darn heavy, or do you think there may have been some other reason it was dropped?

I think it's because centuries of fighting teach them that out of breath soldiers are dead soldiers. It makes me think of darksouls games where the top players mostly use light armor or no armor at all.

Holy ****, you're an unironic "DEX beats STR" ******.

dex vs str.png

[TKVNC]

Oh my god, it's a video game.

W*man moment.

[Tangerine]

Oh my god, it's a video game.

Stamina management is the same. If you ever enter a fighting ring in your life.

You also recover health if you hide behind waist-high cover. It was a common tactic in WW1.

[Kain]

My point is the higher your equipment load, the sooner you run out of breath. And an exhausted army is a dead army. If you do not have the strength to swing your sword or raise your shield, what good is your armor?

[Rand]

Dude, you're just telling me you don't know what pre-musket army combat was like without using those words exactly.

[Kain]

Pre-musket are just chain mail and breastplate mostly, as only the upper class can afford full plate armor. Cavalry later don't even use armor, even though it can still provide protection against bullets.

[TKVNC]

Pre-musket are just chain mail and breastplate mostly, as only the upper class can afford full plate armor. Cavalry later don't even use armor, even though it can still provide protection against bullets.

That's entirely untrue, lmao

By the 15th century armour was being created on an industrial scale, and it was very commonly worn by professional soldiers from all economic backgrounds.

Plate came in many forms, and it was very common.

French, German, Russian, and English cavalry wore breastplates until the 19th Century, and these were still fairly effective against guns of this period.

[Kain]

I guess I confused early middle age with late middle age.

[TKVNC]

I guess I confused early middle age with late middle age.

Early Middle Ages goes up to 1066 chief, and plate didn't exist then. Besides, even during the periods wherein plate began to appear (13-14th centuries) it was still accessible to men-at-arms.

By the 11th Century, most soldiers were professionals, and not levy. They spent their money on equipment, and it was also not uncommon for Lords to buy their retainers armour.

You're actually wrong, on so many points - accept it, you're basing your 'arguments' on myths perpetuated by Hollywood, and ****** RPG's. Why do you keep trying to argue?

[Kain]

"During the Late Middle Ages, plate armour was expensive and tailor-made for the wearer. Consequently, it was generally reserved for nobility. During the English Civil War, a cuirassier's armour could weigh between 32 and 45 kilograms (71 and 99 lb),[1] making this form of armour prohibitively costly and heavy. For these reasons, full plate armour started to disappear during the first few years of the conflict."
From the wiki. But the information seems conflicting so frankly, I don't know for sure. But whatever, you believe what you want to believe. It is not like we will ever have the opportunity to bash each other's heads with hammers while wearing a full suit of armor anyway.

[TKVNC]

"During the Late Middle Ages, plate armour was expensive and tailor-made for the wearer. Consequently, it was generally reserved for nobility. During the English Civil War, a cuirassier's armour could weigh between 32 and 45 kilograms (71 and 99 lb),[1] making this form of armour prohibitively costly and heavy. For these reasons, full plate armour started to disappear during the first few years of the conflict."
From the wiki. But the information seems conflicting so frankly, I don't know for sure. But whatever, you believe what you want to believe. It is not like we will ever have the opportunity to bash each other's heads with hammers while wearing a full suit of armor anyway.

What is this alleged source of yours?

Besides - the English Civil War was the 17th Century; and plate was no longer used for normal fighting - breastplate and helmet was the common equipment of the footman. Nobility still wore full plate, simply because they could. Yet - Parliamentary cavalry often had 3/4 plate, because it was relevant for their role, and a horse could bear it comfortably.

I should add, and make it clear, because you're probably going to misunderstand it, again, as you desperately google a rebuttal, footmen stopped using plate because pike squares had become the prevailing melee strategy - because they were to deny ground to allow firearms carrying troops to fight.

[Kain]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munition_armour
I don't care for rebuttal and I don't care for what you think.

[TKVNC]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munition_armour
I don't care for rebuttal and I don't care for what you think.

Ok, we're done here then. You can't even accept you're wrong, even when about 5 other people have proven you wrong, on several occasions.

I am now legally required to tell you the following:

*************, immediately.

[Kain]

Another animal in human form is now safely ignored.