Pantheon: EA Release

[rusty_shackleford]

they could have just taken eqemu and made this in 1/10th the time with 1/5th the resources

[rusty_shackleford]

To be clear, I'm not saying that copying EQ is bad, I'm saying that just being EQ, changing a few names, adding a hunger mechanic, and making it run like absolute **** is bad

[Xenich]

they could have just taken eqemu and made this in 1/10th the time with 1/5th the resources

Probably right for the most part (though the client was always the pain with that route).


Set your bar low though, seriously... the basics are there for mechanics and game play and it is fun. For that purpose, the game is enjoyable, but yeah... 10 years? Yep... wasted for what they have, but.. well... its here... so we will see what they do with it now, IF they actually do anything with it (Which remains to be seen).

[Xenich]

To be clear, I'm not saying that copying EQ is bad, I'm saying that just being EQ, changing a few names, adding a hunger mechanic, and making it run like absolute **** is bad

You running bad?

What FPS are you getting?

There are some tricks to up it, though I hear the 3000/4000 nvidia cards are having some issues.

[Xenich]

So what class did you pick?

[rusty_shackleford]

To be clear, I'm not saying that copying EQ is bad, I'm saying that just being EQ, changing a few names, adding a hunger mechanic, and making it run like absolute **** is bad

You running bad?

What FPS are you getting?

There are some tricks to up it, though I hear the 3000/4000 nvidia cards are having some issues.

I already quit playing, going to refund it, I'd rather not pay to beta test someone's EQ clone

[Xenich]

To be clear, I'm not saying that copying EQ is bad, I'm saying that just being EQ, changing a few names, adding a hunger mechanic, and making it run like absolute **** is bad

You running bad?

What FPS are you getting?

There are some tricks to up it, though I hear the 3000/4000 nvidia cards are having some issues.

I already quit playing, going to refund it, I'd rather not pay to beta test someone's EQ clone

Your call, but to be fair you didn't really try anything or even get up above the "noob" process to see any changes.

To each their own though, I like it at least for the mechanics and there is nothing out there like that (that isn't 20 year old rehashed content I have done to death).

[rusty_shackleford]

Your call, but to be fair you didn't really try anything or even get up above the "noob" process to see any changes.

Not a single class appealed to me, I begrudgingly picked summoner.

The most notable change from EQ is they made my favorite class(ranger) a gay archer. Ranger might have been dogshit in EQ, but at least it was actually a ranger.
I am not sure what has caused people to think 'ranger' means 'archer', presumably idiots or ESLs who think it means "someone who is at range"

[Xenich]

Your call, but to be fair you didn't really try anything or even get up above the "noob" process to see any changes.

Not a single class appealed to me, I begrudgingly picked summoner.

The most notable change from EQ is they made my favorite class(ranger) a gay archer. Ranger might have been dogshit in EQ, but at least it was actually a ranger.

Someone was complaining about Summoner not being anything like original EQ, something about an ability to "throw their pet" which I had no clue what they were talking about. I will have to check it out sometime.

I have only played enchanter, necro and monk so far. Enchanter is pretty straight EQ from what I could see, necro is close for the most part, and monk well... different with some chain like changes to skills (ie one is an attack that also turns to an evade option when you use it and apparently this will be expanded on as you level up).

Anyway, I know there are a lot of differences, but I haven't ran into them yet because I am still "noob" level playing around with things.

Still, going to be EQ/Vanguard like and that is what a lot of people wanted, or at least at this point will accept considering the alternatives.

[rusty_shackleford]

Someone was complaining about Summoner not being anything like original EQ, something about an ability to "throw their pet" which I had no clue what they were talking about. I will have to check it out sometime.

I summoned some short term buff 'shard' that followed me and my attack was to throw it at enemies

[Xenich]

Someone was complaining about Summoner not being anything like original EQ, something about an ability to "throw their pet" which I had no clue what they were talking about. I will have to check it out sometime.

I summoned some short term buff 'shard' that followed me and my attack was to throw it at enemies

Ah, that is kind of... weird. Wonder what the idea is behind that and if it eventually becomes some type of mechanic they build on.

[Kalarion]

Your call, but to be fair you didn't really try anything or even get up above the "noob" process to see any changes.

Not a single class appealed to me, I begrudgingly picked summoner.

The most notable change from EQ is they made my favorite class(ranger) a gay archer. Ranger might have been dogshit in EQ, but at least it was actually a ranger.
I am not sure what has caused people to think 'ranger' means 'archer', presumably idiots or ESLs who think it means "someone who is at range"

Ranger might have been dogshit in vanilla (I wasn't around for it), but by Kunark they were serviceable, and by Velious they were completely viable and cool. They got steroids in Luclin with the combination of their new spells and AAs. AM and EQ did turn them into super-archers, but by PoP they had course-corrected enough that Rangers were once again a true hybrid that could switch between melee, range and casting.

One of my favorite pastimes from PoP was begging my ranger friends to cast Frozen Wind repeatedly just so I could watch the spell effect

[Xenich]

Updated the OP to a different format, just build releases so people can track changes and progression if they are interested rather than seeing me blather on about crap.

[Xenich]

Interesting...

So there is a "climbing" skill in the game. I just assumed it would be only in specific noted areas (ala EQ2), but actually it looks like you can climb most places. How far you can get will depend on your skill level I think and your endurance meter. I noticed this when I was testing how far you can fall without taking damage (so far, pretty far) and as I was falling I was able to catch the side of the cliff on the way down and climb from there.

I kind of like that. Pretty cool.

[Xenich]

After I play a bit more, maybe get up to level 10 or so on my monk I will post some screens and things to compare and contrast about it being similar to EQ as well as looking at some of the newer features of play. Might give a better idea of what is going on, because @rusty_shackleford is correct, it is very EQesq in MANY ways, but it does have some other features, it just follows that very obvious template.

Briefly, I get the strong visual/feel of EQ as well as Vanguard (more visual), with some different systems and approaches here and there (nothing huge, but certainly different) and obviously the zones are not EQ like, nor would I say Vanguard like either (lots of vertical aspects of play). The mob system is more akin to Vanguard with its teir system for group mobs (they call them Chevrons).

One thing I did notice is that even many level 1 mobs have different abilities they use (some will knock you down, debuff you, stun you, etc...).

Like I said, I will play a bit and do a little mini-review on my time after a while.

[rusty_shackleford]

ok I gave in and bought it again

[rusty_shackleford]

game is obviously very unfinished and pretty much in an alpha state, steam really needs to clamp down on what qualifies as "early access"

[Tweed]

So it's just literally EQ, but worse? Why do people keep trying to make literal EQ, but worse?

[rusty_shackleford]

So it's just literally EQ, but worse? Why do people keep trying to make literal EQ, but worse?

Kinda, yeah. I guess it's more like an inbetween of original WoW and EQ, leaning towards WoW combat but EQ design.
But still, it's hard to justify this actually existing.

[rusty_shackleford]

The fact that this is the result of a decade of development is… insulting. I know it wasn't in full development that entire time, but still. It's a complete nothingburger compared to Project Gorgon which had even less funding and two primary developers.
Project Gorgon is neat because there's nothing else really like it, and if someone asked me what niche small-M MMO they should buy, I'd definitely say Project Gorgon.

EverQuest was made in around 3 years using entirely new technology and essentially creating its own genre with not much(beyond MUDs) to base it off of.


I see no innovation here, nothing new. It's entirely derivative… this is basically a new game for people who play those progression EQ/WoW servers.

[Xenich]

The fact that this is the result of a decade of development is… insulting. I know it wasn't in full development that entire time, but still. It's a complete nothingburger compared to Project Gorgon which had even less funding and two primary developers.
Project Gorgon is neat because there's nothing else really like it, and if someone asked me what niche small-M MMO they should buy, I'd definitely say Project Gorgon.

EverQuest was made in around 3 years using entirely new technology and essentially creating its own genre with not much(beyond MUDs) to base it off of.


I see no innovation here, nothing new. It's entirely derivative… this is basically a new game for people who play those progression EQ/WoW servers.

I think at some point they were trying to "innovate", but lost that when they chased "muh graphics" for several years. Brad had numerous ideas they were going to implement ( may still with some), but when they spun their wheels for so long, well... yeah.

On that front, absolutely, 10 years? WTF? and for what? A an art style and implementation which looks a lot like a tech demo? Agreed.

For me personally, I don't care about any of that (I spent years bitching about it, I am over it).

The game has the right balance of what EQ had in many of its systems I have seen so far. PG doesn't even hit that mark, it looks and plays similar, but the game from what I looked over is heavy in a lot of mainstream adjustments that conflict with the entire point.

This game feels more like EQ in its layers of systems and play (Literally, which is why people say... "Its EQ"), but... I see a lot of vanguard in it (did you play it @rusty_shackleford? Because that is what I would describe when you say it is "WoW" like, those are mostly Vanguard style and appearance of play, which yes...had some WoW feel to it).

There are nuances to it though that I will have to delve into when I do a mini-review to explain what I mean and I get that "feeling" like I did when I first played EQ.

This game is akin to playing Beta 3 EQ. Limited zones, many mechanics, features, etc... are missing (ie in EQ Beta 3, only one zone, no sound, and many features missing). I wouldn't call that completely, it certainly is more fleshed out (not worth 10 years though) with I think 6 zones, yeah whoopie EQ had what? Roughly 70 at release?, but it feels right on many levels and that hits my enjoyment factor with all the key aspects of EQ restrictions and play that none of the other games out there attend to at that style and level.

For the buy in, if you didn't pledge, this is the issue that people have to decide and I would say for most unless they like "alpha/Beta" play and progression (constant changes, likely occasional wipes, etc...) it may not be worth it, but for me I have alpha/beta'd the bulk of the MMOs out there of that age as well as key ones over the years and it doesn't bother me (heck I played on test server for most of original release).

Here is what I think... IF, and that is a BIG IF, they can make progress from here on by tuning the game and adding the content, I think it will turn out actually to be a very good game, but... IF that is the "missing" in play that is sought. It won't innovate too much (there are some interesting new mechanics with climbing, their climate system, etc...), but it will cover the basics of why I liked EQ and games like Vanguard, that is there in spades.

Not to mention, the core of this games server tech was designed around the concept of multiple rule sets, so... there are some aspects of the play I want even more like original EQ (ie naked corpse runs, absolutely no maps, etc... ) and that is one thing that none of the games out there that are even close to EQ like have and since I am a stickler on that, this game is the only one that is likely to achieve that original experience with that tech, though Monsters & Memories may achieve that, we will see.

At this stage, it is just... watch and see what they do. If they do, great... if they don't.. well.. like I said, I had already written it off anyway, so it is no loss.

Oh and as to the green up there? Yes, yep... right and to be fair, that is what a lot of people were asking for when this whole project started, not an EQ Next or crap, more akin to major expansion, graphics, and new mechanics expansion to those servers. On that, it hits the mark on what many of us were seeking.

[Xenich]

So it's just literally EQ, but worse? Why do people keep trying to make literal EQ, but worse?

I am not sure how someone would take it as "worse" unless they are arguing over things like corpse runs being made softer, and "literal", nah... in a lot of things yes, but there are many vanguard mechanics and some new things (climbing pretty much anything) and various other things like the climate system that players have to gear and deal with.

It is pretty much a copy and past of the core of EQ and Vanguard with some flavors and adjustments.

Worse though?

Someone would have to outline that for me to at the least give them credit to a point. Right now, there are people making statements that are more reactive and matter of fact than actually trying to be honest about it (youtube and trolls ranting about the game).

I don't want to claim either way because I have already made assumptions about some things and ended up finding out as I played I was wrong on some features. So take the fast "summaries" you see with a grain of salt by many people (no offense @rusty_shackleford ), what they may be saying is "generally" true on many points, but is fast tracking over a bit I think on some things.

At this point it really is, if you don't like it, fine... if you do, great... the real review will be what they do from here on, and what it ends up being at release.

Past that, its a lot of quick generalizations and categorizations that aren't entirely respective to everything even though they may be layered with facts.

[rusty_shackleford]

Worse in the sense it has 1/20th the content

[rusty_shackleford]

PG doesn't even hit that mark, it looks and plays similar, but the game from what I looked over is heavy in a lot of mainstream adjustments that conflict with the entire point.

Did you actually play it?

[Xenich]

PG doesn't even hit that mark, it looks and plays similar, but the game from what I looked over is heavy in a lot of mainstream adjustments that conflict with the entire point.

Did you actually play it?

No, as I said I had looked over all the features and had issue with some of the things it deviated from concerning what I wanted with EQ like aspects. I think corpse runs was one, travel concepts If I remember right I had issue with, etc...

Looked up again on death penalties:

Normally, when you die, you simply respawn at a designated location in the area. No fuss, no muss, no other penalty.

But when you fight designated "boss monsters," indicated by a flashing warning screen before you arrive, the stakes go up. Boss monsters can do horrific things to your character, like transform them into a big spider or make them see ghosts -- and these curses are permanent until you find a way to remove them. The stakes are huge! But you're never surprised by a boss monster -- you get to choose when you want to take that risk (if ever).

For players who want a bigger penalty, you can turn on "Hardcore Mode." These players will find that some of their items break when they die. To fix them, they have to return to the location they died. Otherwise, the items are useless junk forever.

(And to be added later in development: ) For seriously hardcore players, you can turn on No-Respawn Mode. Your character simply won't be able to respawn -- they'll be stuck as a corpse. Your only hope is for another player to give you a rare resurrection item that brings you back to life. Hope you made some friends before you died! (This mode is mostly intended for "hardcore guilds," groups of players who want to share a super-dangerous game experience. It's not recommended for players who prefer playing alone.)

No corpse run, selective death penalties in only certain situations.

Also I don't like self imposed handicaps in an MMO, it is like telling a person if they don't like a modern mainstream mechanics, just don't use it... which kind of defeats the point in an MMO style of game.

PG is more... well... shooting for a different focus on that era of play, but IMO missing the points of the layers many of those negatives played on the overall system in games like EQ.

[Xenich]

Worse in the sense it has 1/20th the content

Absolutely. If they don't get enough content out for it by release, that will be a big mark.

[rusty_shackleford]

No, as I said I had looked over all the features and had issue with some of the things it deviated from concerning what I wanted with EQ like aspects. I think corpse runs was one, travel concepts If I remember right I had issue with, etc...

Yes, it's not a game derived from the EQ line, it's much different. Don't go into it expecting EQ and you'll probably enjoy it. I played it for hundreds of hours, still had a bunch of content I didn't do, and that was a few years ago.

[Xenich]

No, as I said I had looked over all the features and had issue with some of the things it deviated from concerning what I wanted with EQ like aspects. I think corpse runs was one, travel concepts If I remember right I had issue with, etc...

Yes, it's not a game derived from the EQ line, it's much different. Don't go into it expecting EQ and you'll probably enjoy it. I played it for hundreds of hours, still had a bunch of content I didn't do, and that was a few years ago.

I edited my post above to give you more specifics... but like I said, the system misses the overall concepts of the mechanics I am after. Just wasn't what I am looking for in those areas. Pantheon hits them pretty much head on and that was what I was missing mostly in games today.

[rusty_shackleford]

@Xenich what's your char name tho

[Xenich]

@Xenich what's your char name tho

Tanix is my monk.
Level 6

No crafting as of yet, have no clue what I should do or pick.

Right now, just doing some leveling, also working on skill ups (ie climbing, swimming, sprinting, etc...)