Junior Adventurer's Guild - December: Deus Ex: Invisible War

[Unhelpful Contrarian]

To fair it the ending is left ambiguous of what the full ramifications would be.

"Share your mind with everyone" sounds like assimilation to me. Whatever the final product of JC's ending is and however prosperous it may be it can't really be called human anymore.

► Show Spoiler

JC did say that it wasn’t like the Omar which is a hivenind but to curate. But I do agree with you that your not human at that point even through it’s the only ending that fixes the problem and going back to status quo or going back to dark ages.

[rusty_shackleford]

JC stopped existing when he merged with Helios. Just because he's using JC's body like a meatsuit doesn't mean it's JC.

[Tweed]

JC stopped existing when he merged with Helios. Just because he's using JC's body like a meatsuit doesn't mean it's JC.

Saman says as much and if you do what Leo wants you find out he was using you for the Omar which Saman also pointed out. In the end it seems like the Templars are right and only logical ending if you don't want a one world government.

[Lord of Riva]

JC stopped existing when he merged with Helios. Just because he's using JC's body like a meatsuit doesn't mean it's JC.

Saman says as much and if you do what Leo wants you find out he was using you for the Omar which Saman also pointed out. In the end it seems like the Templars are right and only logical ending if you don't want a one world government.

The Omar, though do not modify the world to support their worldview, the ending is a very extreme interpretation of Anarchy into post-apocalypse where the omar the thrive. Paraphrased narration:

"Countless Empires were created and fell until the world was forever changed through conflict and out of that barren planet only those emerged that were capable of surviving under these conditions."

It's not really logical, Killing everyone would lead to basically the same outcome as the templar ending in reality, but to suggest the Omar and the scifi-communism thing Helios suggests are the same seems wrong.

And it's also not a "World government"

[Tinky Winky]

Finished this, with the best ending

► Show Spoiler

This is actually a lot better than I've expected, though the game is too easy even at the highest difficulty. Cloak + bot control make the game trivial, since you can just run up to the bot/turret, hack it and kill everything in an area.

[rusty_shackleford]

Remember to finish as many AG games this month as possible to bankrupt @Oyster Sauce

[Unhelpful Contrarian]

JC stopped existing when he merged with Helios. Just because he's using JC's body like a meatsuit doesn't mean it's JC.

Saman says as much and if you do what Leo wants you find out he was using you for the Omar which Saman also pointed out. In the end it seems like the Templars are right and only logical ending if you don't want a one world government.

Maybe I missed something because I was never be able to find hard evidence that Leo was being controlled by the Omar but only vague implications of it being possible.

[Tweed]

Remember to finish as many AG games this month as possible to bankrupt @Oyster Sauce

I can't, someone wants me to play Chronicles of Veleta instead.

[DagothGeas5]

I'm very new on learning about Deus Ex (only know a few lines and saw a friend play it, even also thought there only was one Deus Ex), I wanted to ask: is there a game that is to be avoided or where the franchise falls off or something like it?

[Finarfin]

I'm very new on learning about Deus Ex (only know a few lines and saw a friend play it, even also thought there only was one Deus Ex), I wanted to ask: is there a game that is to be avoided or where the franchise falls off or something like it?

Invisible War lol. But I'd say only The Fall and Deus Ex: GO are bad. the Rest is good.

[logincrash]

I'm very new on learning about Deus Ex (only know a few lines and saw a friend play it, even also thought there only was one Deus Ex), I wanted to ask: is there a game that is to be avoided or where the franchise falls off or something like it?

Deus Ex 1 is a classic. Deus Ex 2 is a disappointing sequel. The prequels made by Square Enix (Human Revolution and Mankind Divided) are good to okay, but the art direction is much gayer than the original game as they're much more artsy-fartsy.

[DagothGeas5]

I'm very new on learning about Deus Ex (only know a few lines and saw a friend play it, even also thought there only was one Deus Ex), I wanted to ask: is there a game that is to be avoided or where the franchise falls off or something like it?

Deus Ex 1 is a classic. Deus Ex 2 is a disappointing sequel. The prequels made by Square Enix (Human Revolution and Mankind Divided) are good to okay, but the art direction is much gayer than the original game as they're much more artsy-fartsy.

Thank you! Will keep the knowledge of the artstyle direction in mind as those things (like with the Soul Reaver remake and Dragon Age 2) I find very unsightly.

[rusty_shackleford]

I'm very new on learning about Deus Ex (only know a few lines and saw a friend play it, even also thought there only was one Deus Ex), I wanted to ask: is there a game that is to be avoided or where the franchise falls off or something like it?

Deus Ex 1 is a classic. Deus Ex 2 is a disappointing sequel. The prequels made by Square Enix (Human Revolution and Mankind Divided) are good to okay, but the art direction is much gayer than the original game as they're much more artsy-fartsy.

I didn't care much for the first Deus Ex but actually liked the prequels. YMMV, I guess, but I'm probably in a small minority here.

[Tweed]

We live in a world where demented ******* praise IW and hate the prequels. Zillions must die.

[Unhelpful Contrarian]

We live in a world where demented ******* praise IW and hate the prequels. Zillions must die.

Deus Ex IW deserves its criticisms however I honestly very much dislike the narrative decisions they choose, however I will fully admit the prequel gameplay is infinitely better then the sequel game.

[rusty_shackleford]

I honestly very much dislike the narrative decisions they choose

I don't.
Cyberpunk isn't supposed to be happy or have a good ending. It's supposed to be a dystopia you don't want to live in.

[Unhelpful Contrarian]

I'm very new on learning about Deus Ex (only know a few lines and saw a friend play it, even also thought there only was one Deus Ex), I wanted to ask: is there a game that is to be avoided or where the franchise falls off or something like it?

Deus Ex the fall and Go. Deus Ex IW has its fans (Myself definitely included) but its doesn’t live up to the original. So unless you care for finding out what happen to the events after the original you can skip it or at least try it once to decide yourself.

[Unhelpful Contrarian]

I honestly very much dislike the narrative decisions they choose

I don't.
Cyberpunk isn't supposed to be happy or have a good ending. It's supposed to be a dystopia you don't want to live in.

As it should but the prequels games really falters in providing moral ambiguity in the main story (pro aug vs anti aug) and so painfully obvious which side it’s wants to support.

[rusty_shackleford]

I honestly very much dislike the narrative decisions they choose

I don't.
Cyberpunk isn't supposed to be happy or have a good ending. It's supposed to be a dystopia you don't want to live in.

As it should but the prequels games really falters in providing moral ambiguity in the main story (pro aug vs anti aug) and so painfully obvious which side it’s wants to support.

Yeah, anti-aug, because the augs are terrorists.

[gerey]

To this day I don't understand why the writers were trying to paint the Council in ME1 as ******* so hard, when everything they've said makes perfect sense in context. I get that they were trying to do a "Jack Bauer in space", but I don't recall Bauer screaming at the president of the US just because there are other considerations at play when making a decision.

Saren is a trusted, experienced Specter, so there's no reason to believe unbased accusations from the humans, especially since one of the accusers has an axe to grind with Saren. When you do present the evidence they are quick to remove his privileges and organize a manhunt against him. The game expects you to view them as ******* because they don't trust the unsubstantiated "visions" of a soldier about spooky space robots coming to exterminate everyone in the galaxy. If I was in their place and some combat veteran came along and told me he's having visions of galactic genocide after getting his brain fried by an alien relic, I'd tell him to seek professional help.

Why are most of the dialogue options when dealing with the Council some variation of being a petulant child and screaming at them because you're not getting your way?

[Unhelpful Contrarian]

I don't.
Cyberpunk isn't supposed to be happy or have a good ending. It's supposed to be a dystopia you don't want to live in.

As it should but the prequels games really falters in providing moral ambiguity in the main story (pro aug vs anti aug) and so painfully obvious which side it’s wants to support.

Yeah, anti-aug, because the augs are terrorists.

Well treating augs like second class citizens for no fault of their own tends to breed resentment.

[Tweed]

To this day I don't understand why the writers were trying to paint the Council in ME1 as ******* so hard, when everything they've said makes perfect sense in context. I get that they were trying to do a "Jack Bauer in space", but I don't recall Bauer screaming at the president of the US just because there are other considerations at play when making a decision.

Saren is a trusted, experienced Specter, so there's no reason to believe unbased accusations from the humans, especially since one of the accusers has an axe to grind with Saren. When you do present the evidence they are quick to remove his privileges and organize a manhunt against him. The game expects you to view them as ******* because they don't trust the unsubstantiated "visions" of a soldier about spooky space robots coming to exterminate everyone in the galaxy. If I was in their place and some combat veteran came along and told me he's having visions of galactic genocide after getting his brain fried by an alien relic, I'd tell him to seek professional help.

Why are most of the dialogue options when dealing with the Council some variation of being a petulant child and screaming at them because you're not getting your way?

Letting them die feels good. HUMANITY **** YEAH!!!

[J1M]

To this day I don't understand why the writers were trying to paint the Council in ME1 as ******* so hard, when everything they've said makes perfect sense in context. I get that they were trying to do a "Jack Bauer in space", but I don't recall Bauer screaming at the president of the US just because there are other considerations at play when making a decision.

Saren is a trusted, experienced Specter, so there's no reason to believe unbased accusations from the humans, especially since one of the accusers has an axe to grind with Saren. When you do present the evidence they are quick to remove his privileges and organize a manhunt against him. The game expects you to view them as ******* because they don't trust the unsubstantiated "visions" of a soldier about spooky space robots coming to exterminate everyone in the galaxy. If I was in their place and some combat veteran came along and told me he's having visions of galactic genocide after getting his brain fried by an alien relic, I'd tell him to seek professional help.

Why are most of the dialogue options when dealing with the Council some variation of being a petulant child and screaming at them because you're not getting your way?

At one point Jack Bauer confronted a United States President, by assaulting his armored limo with high caliber weapons and tear gas. On another occasion in the back of a limo he demanded that the man provide him information or be forced to eat a hotel towel, with the intention of ripping out his stomach lining.

[gerey]

At one point Jack Bauer confronted a United States President, by assaulting his armored limo with high caliber weapons and tear gas.

I was talking about the nignog president.

[J1M]

To this day I don't understand why the writers were trying to paint the Council in ME1 as ******* so hard, when everything they've said makes perfect sense in context. I get that they were trying to do a "Jack Bauer in space", but I don't recall Bauer screaming at the president of the US just because there are other considerations at play when making a decision.

Saren is a trusted, experienced Specter, so there's no reason to believe unbased accusations from the humans, especially since one of the accusers has an axe to grind with Saren. When you do present the evidence they are quick to remove his privileges and organize a manhunt against him. The game expects you to view them as ******* because they don't trust the unsubstantiated "visions" of a soldier about spooky space robots coming to exterminate everyone in the galaxy. If I was in their place and some combat veteran came along and told me he's having visions of galactic genocide after getting his brain fried by an alien relic, I'd tell him to seek professional help.

Why are most of the dialogue options when dealing with the Council some variation of being a petulant child and screaming at them because you're not getting your way?

At one point Jack Bauer confronted a United States President, by assaulting his armored limo with high caliber weapons and tear gas. On another occasion in the back of a limo he demanded that the man provide him information or be forced to eat a hotel towel, with the intention of ripping out his stomach lining.

We desperately need some games that are Jack Bauer + X. What I described was mainstream television in 2002.

[rusty_shackleford]

We desperately need some games that are Jack Bauer + X. What I described was mainstream television in 2002.

'Evil' in most RPGs should be much closer to renegade mass effect. Punching journalists, tossing bad guys out of airlocks, etc.,
Making a 'good' and 'evil' path requires making two separate campaigns, even if they're related. Otherwise one is going to be vastly inferior.

"Not Evil" and "Good" are not equivalents:
Jim Gordon the Cop is the inverse of Evil — he is actively Good.
Dirty Harry the Cop is the negation of Evil — he denies Evil.

[logincrash]

Well treating augs like second class citizens for NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN tends to breed resentment.

Buddy, being an aug is literally a choice. Square Enix really went full ****** when they decided to make the conflict a race issue ("AUGS LIVES MATTER" sign in one of Mankind Divided's cinematics). You're not born with metal arms or legs, you pay to get them and then pay for the immuno-suppressant meds for the rest of your life.

[Unhelpful Contrarian]

Well treating augs like second class citizens for NO FAULT OF THEIR OWN tends to breed resentment.

Buddy, being an aug is literally a choice. Square Enix really went full ****** when they decided to make the conflict a race issue ("AUGS LIVES MATTER" sign in one of Mankind Divided's cinematics). You're not born with metal arms or legs, you pay to get them and then pay for the immuno-suppressant meds for the rest of your life.

I should clarify that what I mean no fault of their own I’m referring to the incident in HR of where Darrow sent a signal causing people with Aug becoming murderous lunatics. Yes it is a choice to get Augs ( for the most part )however the subjugating all aug’s for a malfunction outside their control is asinine.

[Nooneatall]

We desperately need some games that are Jack Bauer + X. What I described was mainstream television in 2002.

'Evil' in most RPGs should be much closer to renegade mass effect. Punching journalists, tossing bad guys out of airlocks, etc.,
Making a 'good' and 'evil' path requires making two separate campaigns, even if they're related. Otherwise one is going to be vastly inferior.

"Not Evil" and "Good" are not equivalents:
Jim Gordon the Cop is the inverse of Evil — he is actively Good.
Dirty Harry the Cop is the negation of Evil — he denies Evil.

Being evil for normies is summed up by that "we can't kill them because then we will be the murderers" mentality. I really suspect it's based off some twisted misguided Christian prinicpal that the parasites have really leaned on. I think that because people are so ready to eat it up. Meanwhile America was very Christian in the past and did more executions and harsher punishments.

[logincrash]

I should clarify that what I mean no fault of their own I’m referring to the incident in HR of where Darrow sent a signal causing people with Aug becoming murderous lunatics. Yes it is a choice to get Augs ( for the most part )however the subjugating all aug’s for a malfunction outside their control is asinine.

No, I'm pretty sure treating people who got elective surgeries as dangerous because they can be remotely hacked to chimp out and kill other people is normal.