Games peaked in 2001, graphics peaked in 2014

[Yankee Zulu]

This whole thing is overexaggerated as usual. Do some modern games have poor optimization and too high system requirements? Yes, its true. Have graphics not progressed since 2014? They most certainly have. There was a time when I thought Gothic 2 graphics were state of the art. Not today but I still enjoy the art direction and style, I loved Archolos.

The american "big tech", i.e. the **** are to blame. There are only 2 american corps which control CPUs and GPUs, two most important components for gaming. They do whatever the **** they want.

Another part is game engines. I say the more of them the better because competition. Others say **** you we want Unreal engine. **** Unity as well.
Dagor engine looks really good and performs better than Unreal but who the **** uses it besides Gaijin?

All you can do is whine whine whine

That does look really nice. It runs smooth and less requirements on system specs?

According to Gaijin Dagor is faster.

https://app2top.com/news/gaijin-enterta ... 75175.html

[Element]

The problem I think is that as graphics progress they tend to lead to lots of visual noise that is superfluous. Good graphics are nice, but once you get used to them you stop noticing them, whilst elements of inferior fidelity stick out immediately. So lots of $ is sunk into making making sure the reflections have just the right luminosity and what not, but none of that translates into good gameplay. People then get addicted to the new shiny stuff and can't go back to playing something inferior, unless its explicitly stylized. So here we are.

[Faceless_Sentinel]

I love to see when people talk about things that they don't understand but pretend they know everything. Please, continue, I need more of this of this comical ignorance.

If graphics are so insignificant, why do you play modern games? Why don't you play "peak gamedesign over graphics" games from snes and alike?

[rusty_shackleford]

If graphics are so insignificant, why do you play modern games? Why didn't you play "peak gamedesign over graphics" games from snes and alike?

Playing Star Wars: Dark Forces

[J1M]

I love to see when people talk about things that they don't understand but pretend they know everything. Please, continue, I need more of this of this comical ignorance.

If graphics are so insignificant, why do you play modern games? Why don't you play "peak gamedesign over graphics" games from snes and alike?

I am currently playing FFXI, Deus Ex Invisible War, and Vampire The Masquerade Bloodlines.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I love to see when people talk about things that they don't understand but pretend they know everything. Please, continue, I need more of this of this comical ignorance.

If graphics are so insignificant, why do you play modern games? Why don't you play "peak gamedesign over graphics" games from snes and alike?

Currently playing FF11, Atelier Ayesha, and Deus Ex.

[Faceless_Sentinel]

I love to see when people talk about things that they don't understand but pretend they know everything. Please, continue, I need more of this of this comical ignorance.

If graphics are so insignificant, why do you play modern games? Why don't you play "peak gamedesign over graphics" games from snes and alike?

I am currently playing FFXI, Deus Ex Invisible War, and Vampire The Masquerade Bloodlines.

Why do you need early 3D? How dare you neglect godlike 2D snes gamedesign! You fail for satanic third dimension seduction, shame on you, shame!

[rusty_shackleford]

I love to see when people talk about things that they don't understand but pretend they know everything. Please, continue, I need more of this of this comical ignorance.

If graphics are so insignificant, why do you play modern games? Why don't you play "peak gamedesign over graphics" games from snes and alike?

I am currently playing FFXI, Deus Ex Invisible War, and Vampire The Masquerade Bloodlines.

Why do you need early 3D? How dare you neglect godlike 2D snes gamedesign! You fail for satanic third dimension seduction, shame on you, shame!

Because 3D enables game design not possible in 2D. You can use 2D sprites in 3D space to achieve a similar effect and it has been done well e.g., Ultima Underworld, Daggerfall, etc.,

[Faceless_Sentinel]

I love to see when people talk about things that they don't understand but pretend they know everything. Please, continue, I need more of this of this comical ignorance.

If graphics are so insignificant, why do you play modern games? Why don't you play "peak gamedesign over graphics" games from snes and alike?

Currently playing FF11, Atelier Ayesha, and Deus Ex.

Why do you need early 3D? How dare you neglect godlike 2D snes gamedesign! You fail for satanic third dimension seduction, shame on you, shame!

[WhiteShark]

I love to see when people talk about things that they don't understand but pretend they know everything. Please, continue, I need more of this of this comical ignorance.

If graphics are so insignificant, why do you play modern games? Why don't you play "peak gamedesign over graphics" games from snes and alike?

I am currently playing FFXI, Deus Ex Invisible War, and Vampire The Masquerade Bloodlines.

Why do you need early 3D? How dare you neglect godlike 2D snes gamedesign! You fail for satanic third dimension seduction, shame on you, shame!

Observe how this user, when confronted with the realization that others do not, in fact, play modern games, immediately moves the goal posts 30 years into the past.

[rusty_shackleford]

@Faceless_Sentinel

Why not give Daggerfall a try with Daggerfall Unity?
Free on Steam:
Daggerfall Unity: https://www.dfworkshop.net/

You can get a free copy of DOS Daggerfall from Steam and a free copy of Daggerfall Unity from the Releases page. Then simply unzip the latest version of Daggerfall Unity to its own folder and point it to the DOS version. Daggerfall Unity will take care of everything else.

[Xenich]

I love to see when people talk about things that they don't understand but pretend they know everything. Please, continue, I need more of this of this comical ignorance.

If graphics are so insignificant, why do you play modern games? Why don't you play "peak gamedesign over graphics" games from snes and alike?

Just was playing Wizardry series again off and on.

Oh, and while I am not a console fan, I did enjoy the SNES/Sega Shadow runs recently.

A game with poor graphics is still a good game, but no matter how pretty and awesome looking a bad game is, it is still ****.

[Faceless_Sentinel]

I am currently playing FFXI, Deus Ex Invisible War, and Vampire The Masquerade Bloodlines.

Why do you need early 3D? How dare you neglect godlike 2D snes gamedesign! You fail for satanic third dimension seduction, shame on you, shame!

Observe how this user, when confronted with the realization that others do not, in fact, play modern games, immediately moves the goal posts 30 years into the past.

No, I just point out how stupid this "games don't need detailed graphics" and "graphics are not evolving since ps3" stupid and equivalent to "you don't need 3D graphics, snes graphics are the best".

[Faceless_Sentinel]

I am currently playing FFXI, Deus Ex Invisible War, and Vampire The Masquerade Bloodlines.

Why do you need early 3D? How dare you neglect godlike 2D snes gamedesign! You fail for satanic third dimension seduction, shame on you, shame!

Because 3D enables game design not possible in 2D. You can use 2D sprites in 3D space to achieve a similar effect and it has been done well e.g., Ultima Underworld, Daggerfall, etc.,

Are you really saying that early 3D is equal to 2D sprites imitating 3D effects?

[Faceless_Sentinel]

I love to see when people talk about things that they don't understand but pretend they know everything. Please, continue, I need more of this of this comical ignorance.

If graphics are so insignificant, why do you play modern games? Why don't you play "peak gamedesign over graphics" games from snes and alike?

A game with poor graphics is still a good game, but no matter how pretty and awesome looking a bad game is, it is still ****.

May be you should blame game designers for bad gamelay and not 3D modellers and render engineers?

[asf]

it is just pajeets programming these days

[rusty_shackleford]

Why do you need early 3D? How dare you neglect godlike 2D snes gamedesign! You fail for satanic third dimension seduction, shame on you, shame!

Because 3D enables game design not possible in 2D. You can use 2D sprites in 3D space to achieve a similar effect and it has been done well e.g., Ultima Underworld, Daggerfall, etc.,

Are you really saying that early 3D is equal to 2D sprites imitating 3D effects?

No, early polygonal 3D was a thing that was used too but it was difficult to convey intent with just flat polygons, or in the case of very early 3D graphics, wireframes.

[J1M]

I love to see when people talk about things that they don't understand but pretend they know everything. Please, continue, I need more of this of this comical ignorance.

If graphics are so insignificant, why do you play modern games? Why don't you play "peak gamedesign over graphics" games from snes and alike?

I am currently playing FFXI, Deus Ex Invisible War, and Vampire The Masquerade Bloodlines.

Why do you need early 3D? How dare you neglect godlike 2D snes gamedesign! You fail for satanic third dimension seduction, shame on you, shame!

I'd be willing to play all 3 of those games if they were translated into 2D sprites. Invisible War would be objectively improved.

[Xenich]

I love to see when people talk about things that they don't understand but pretend they know everything. Please, continue, I need more of this of this comical ignorance.

If graphics are so insignificant, why do you play modern games? Why don't you play "peak gamedesign over graphics" games from snes and alike?

A game with poor graphics is still a good game, but no matter how pretty and awesome looking a bad game is, it is still ****.

May be you should blame game designers for bad gamelay and not 3D modellers and render engineers?

Not sure your point here as it concerns what I was discussing.

[rusty_shackleford]

There's also the incorrect notion that older art is easier to make(it's not.) If anything, era-accurate art becomes more difficult to make as time goes on(e.g., specific tools used to achieve it no longer work/supported, etc.,), not less. Art from a specific era isn't just "art but worse". And pixel art specifically is an art unto itself, very few people around can make high quality pixel art and they charge a lot for it.

"Graphics peaked" because… well, yes. With regards to the assets themselves, all that has really happened between 2014 and 2024 is an increasing use of high poly/resolution textures/models for increasingly irrelevant parts of the game(hint: this is where the filesize bloat is coming from) rather than just the main character and set-pieces. There is a diminishing return here such that doubling the poly-count of a character no longer provides any noticeable improvements.
A large amount of the reduction in performance has been (imo failed) attempts at increasing the "realisticness"(for lack of a better word) of global illumination, reflections, etc., These are, of course, just approximations and I don't particularly care for any real-time GI solution as they still look significantly worse than baked GI did years ago. When graphics "peaked", games were using baked GI with hacks to mix in real-time lighting, so of course entirely real time solutions don't look much better and perform worse, they're just easier for the designers.

OTOH, I find the real-time shadows in Doom 3 and other old games to actually look better than many modern (soft-)shadow mapping implementations. I like the dark, inky shadows:

[Faceless_Sentinel]

I am currently playing FFXI, Deus Ex Invisible War, and Vampire The Masquerade Bloodlines.

Why do you need early 3D? How dare you neglect godlike 2D snes gamedesign! You fail for satanic third dimension seduction, shame on you, shame!

I'd be willing to play all 3 of those games if they were translated into 2D sprites. Invisible War would be objectively improved.

If you think games you mentioned are possible in 2D sprites, please tell me where you buy naivety pills.

[WhiteShark]

If you think games you mentioned are possible in 2D sprites, please tell me where you buy naivety pills.

Have you actually never played any 3D game with 2D sprites? Are you familiar with a hidden gem called "Doom"?

[rusty_shackleford]

If you think games you mentioned are possible in 2D sprites, please tell me where you buy naivety pills.

One of the most popular MMORPGs did use sprites for characters in a 3D environment.

[J1M]

Why do you need early 3D? How dare you neglect godlike 2D snes gamedesign! You fail for satanic third dimension seduction, shame on you, shame!

I'd be willing to play all 3 of those games if they were translated into 2D sprites. Invisible War would be objectively improved.

If you think games you mentioned are possible in 2D sprites, please tell me where you buy naivety pills.

You are in for a treat. RPGs existed prior to 3D engines. You have a wonderful catalog of games available to try for the first time, like Fallout. And there's no reason Bloodlines couldn't work as a top-down game built out of 2D sprites when its biggest strengths are its voice acting and setting.

[rusty_shackleford]

And there's no reason Bloodlines couldn't work as a top-down game built out of 2D sprites when its biggest strengths are its voice acting and setting.

IMO it would need good hand-drawn animations for NPC dialogue, or something like Fallout talking heads at least. Would lose a lot of the vibe otherwise.

[Tweed]

I love to see when people talk about things that they don't understand but pretend they know everything. Please, continue, I need more of this of this comical ignorance.

If graphics are so insignificant, why do you play modern games? Why don't you play "peak gamedesign over graphics" games from snes and alike?

► Show Spoiler

val.jpg

Pls ****** harder. Of course, you have me iggy'd.

[Faceless_Sentinel]

"Graphics peaked" because… well, yes. With regards to the assets themselves, all that has really happened between 2014 and 2024 is an increasing use of high poly/resolution textures/models for increasingly irrelevant parts of the game(hint: this is where the filesize bloat is coming from) rather than just the main character and set-pieces. There is a diminishing return here such that doubling the poly-count of a character no longer provides any noticeable improvements.

High polycount and high resolution texures of characters and surroundings help creates better visuals, animations, improve narrative delivery and avoid shitsow like this:

► Show Spoiler

A large amount of the reduction in performance has been (imo failed) attempts at increasing the "realisticness"(for lack of a better word) of global illumination, reflections, etc., These are, of course, just approximations and I don't particularly care for any real-time GI solution as they still look significantly worse than baked GI did years ago. When graphics "peaked", games were using baked GI with hacks to mix in real-time lighting, so of course entirely real time solutions don't look much better and perform worse, they're just easier for the designers.

Real time lightning, shadows and reflections improved significantly significantly with years, especially with ray and path tracing and we finally can use them in gameplay and they look like real shadows and reflections, not a pixelated mess that was in old games.

[Faceless_Sentinel]

If you think games you mentioned are possible in 2D sprites, please tell me where you buy naivety pills.

Have you actually never played any 3D game with 2D sprites? Are you familiar with a hidden gem called "Doom"?

Yes I know about this. Looks awful after half life 2.

[Faceless_Sentinel]

I'd be willing to play all 3 of those games if they were translated into 2D sprites. Invisible War would be objectively improved.

If you think games you mentioned are possible in 2D sprites, please tell me where you buy naivety pills.

You are in for a treat. RPGs existed prior to 3D engines. You have a wonderful catalog of games available to try for the first time, like Fallout. And there's no reason Bloodlines couldn't work as a top-down game built out of 2D sprites when its biggest strengths are its voice acting and setting.

I hope all realtime shooting, aiming and spellcasting will be just like in 3D. Thanks God nobody listened people like you in the industry and we get masterpieces like firts two Prince of Persia.

[Nooneatall]

If you think games you mentioned are possible in 2D sprites, please tell me where you buy naivety pills.

You are in for a treat. RPGs existed prior to 3D engines. You have a wonderful catalog of games available to try for the first time, like Fallout. And there's no reason Bloodlines couldn't work as a top-down game built out of 2D sprites when its biggest strengths are its voice acting and setting.

I hope all realtime shooting, aiming and spellcasting will be just like in 3D. Thanks God nobody listened people like you in the industry and we get masterpieces like firts two Prince of Persia.

You trollin my *****