Dark Souls II: The Pinnacle of a Franchise

[Vergil]

CAN YOU IMAGINE HAVING MORE THAN 2 WAYS OF HEALING YOUR CHARACTER LMAO

[Statesman]

DeS isn't just some prototype, it's a great game. It's also a lot more of a 'coherent experience' than DS1, which has blatantly unfinished parts like Izalith.

On its own, sure it is a great game but it is still the baseline from which the rest of the franchise developed...and was arguably even more blatantly unfinished than DS1 (see the Broken Archstone/Northern Limit, the disjointed "teleport to map" excuse for the hub), several archstones being just a boss arena, etc). To be fair, nearly all Fromsoft games (outside maybe Sekiro) are a mess in that regard.

yeah but at least DeS is not forcing us to play through empty unfinished levels while fighting copy-pasted capra demons. That makes the game feel coherent and consistent.

Demon's Souls also re-uses bosses as enemies, has less enemy variety, more gimmick bosses that were supposed to be full fledged boss battles (Dragon God/Storm King/Old Monk) and even some "finished" areas are just as empty as Demon Ruins/Lost Izalith. I could see someone arguing in favor of DeS achieving a consistent quality throughout the game, but pretty much everything it does has been surpassed by later entries in the series which is why I called it a prototype. Did you play the original game or the remake?

[Vergil]

Gimmick bosses are good.

[Vergil]

This game needs the Devil May Cry/Resident Evil announcer voice at the main menu saying "DARK SOULS.... TWO"

[Breathe]

Bloodborne is objectively terrible and it you like it I will assume you are a redditor (lovecraft fan)

How dare you, Bloodborne is a masterpiece.

[wndrbr]

Demon's Souls also re-uses bosses as enemies, has less enemy variety, more gimmick bosses that were supposed to be full fledged boss battles (Dragon God/Storm King/Old Monk) and even some "finished" areas are just as empty as Demon Ruins/Lost Izalith.

the lower enemy variety isn't a problem given that the game is significantly shorter than the later souls titles. I like gimmick bosses, and DeS imo had reasonably good 'gimmick/proper boss fight' balance.

Been a while since I played DeS, but I don't recall any areas in the game that were as bad as Demon Ruins or Izalith.

I could see someone arguing in favor of DeS achieving a consistent quality throughout the game, but pretty much everything it does has been surpassed by later entries in the series which is why I called it a prototype.

DeS has a bunch of potentially interesting ideas that got tossed out in the spiritual sequels, such as the world tendency. It has a somewhat different style of storytelling, a more grounded world, different tone that feels like a 'horror fantasy' instead of 'high fantasy but postapoc', distinct minimalistic soundtrack, imo a neater and tighter designed levels due to them being separate stages instead of parts of a world, etc etc.

And even if we ignore all that, DeS is a singleplayer title with its own campaign. I don't understand people who call games like that 'prototypes' just because it had a sequel that built on the first game. No one calls fallout 1, doom 1 or thief the dark project "prototypes". Games aren't just bare mechanics, after all.

Did you play the original game or the remake?

original. I don't have a ps5.

[Vergil]

Shulva is not kicking my *** NEARLY as much as the first time I got here. It's what filtered me so hard I had stopped playing entirely last time I had really put serious time into DSII.

[Stack of Turtles]

Gimmick bosses are awesome and not liking them because you'd rather stab more glowing weak points or whatever is gay.

[Statesman]

the lower enemy variety isn't a problem given that the game is significantly shorter than the later souls titles. I like gimmick bosses, and DeS imo had reasonably good 'gimmick/proper boss fight' balance.

Gimmicks aren’t inherently bad, but in a game series known for difficulty/fomenting multiple playthroughs, it can feel underwhelming when a boss is meant to be defeated in exactly the same way by every single player. Which is why I tend to distinguish from Gimmick and Puzzle Bosses, which can have modifiers, recommended setups, and so on, but can still allow players to have vastly different experiences each time through.

Been a while since I played DeS, but I don't recall any areas in the game that were as bad as Demon Ruins or Izalith.

W5 (outside Maiden Astraea) is about as undeveloped as Demon Ruins/Lost Izalith, 5-2 specially feels like a half-baked test map. 2-2, 3-2 and 5-1 are just linear corridors with slight differences (5-1 ascends while 3-2 has the illusion of openness) and would be at best transitional areas on later entries in the series. Even the "good" maps in DeS are still too linear to be worth a second playthrough.

DeS has a bunch of potentially interesting ideas that got tossed out in the spiritual sequels, such as the world tendency. It has a somewhat different style of storytelling, a more grounded world, different tone that feels like a 'horror fantasy' instead of 'high fantasy but postapoc', distinct minimalistic soundtrack

On paper, World Tendency sounds like a cool idea, but tying it to a server-sync was a mistake. Which is why it ended up being dismembered into separate mechanics. You'll have to expand upon what you meant by a different style of storytelling, since Demon's Souls used the same "Read Item Descriptions" style that Fromsoft has favored since day 1. The "horror fantasy tone" was done better in Bloodborne (makes sense, since it started development as Demon's Souls 2) and soundtrack-wise, all From games have had serviceable but musically unimpressive soundtracks so .

And even if we ignore all that, DeS is a singleplayer title with its own campaign. I don't understand people who call games like that 'prototypes' just because it had a sequel that built on the first game. No one calls fallout 1, doom 1 or thief the dark project "prototypes". Games aren't just bare mechanics, after all.

Being a prototype is not meant to imply something is inherently incomplete/non-functional or unfinished. I don't know why you got the idea that the original remark was supposed to be disparaging or derogatory. Paraphrasing what I have stated before, Demon's Souls is the original game (that arguably started a sub-genre) on which later games were developed from.

What if Miyazaki worked on Demon's Souls from the start and had an interconnected world=Dark Souls
What if Fromsoft's B-Team experimented without Miyazaki=Dark Souls 2
What if Miyazaki did Demon's Souls 2 on a Victorian Lovecraftian setting=Bloodborne
What if Miyazaki added Bloodborne mechanics and went back to linear level designs=Dark Souls 3
What if Miyazaki made it an open world game=Elden Ring

[Vergil]

I think part of the reason Shulva was so nightmarish to me was that I was playing during that period where everything had been taken offline for a while so there were zero player messages or anything like that. It's an extremely puzzle focused area with a confusing layout so having to raw dog it was the worst possible was to experience it.

[Lord of Riva]

I played dark souls 2 after 3 actually and I thoroughly enjoyed it, I have literally no clue in what shape it is worse than 1 which also had some irksome design decisions from time to time.

[wndrbr]

You'll have to expand upon what you meant by a different style of storytelling, since Demon's Souls used the same "Read Item Descriptions" style that Fromsoft has favored since day 1.

well i guess i should've worded it differently. I found DeS to be way less byzantine and obtuse. You can get the picture without autistically combing through item descriptions, and the vaati **** was there to provide additional details. DeS and Sekiro imo struck the perfect balance of having understandable enough plot with item descriptions/environment providing some cool hidden context. Meanwhile DS series, Bloodborne and especially ER felt too confusing for the sake of confusing.

Again, it's just a thing that i thought DeS did better than some of the later entries.

The "horror fantasy tone" was done better in Bloodborne (makes sense, since it started development as Demon's Souls 2)

Bloodborne is more of a lovecraft cosmic horror pastiche with some gothic horror elements. DeS, OTOH, combines the classic medieval fantasy tropes like knights/castles/dragons with horror, which I found unusual.

and soundtrack-wise, all From games have had serviceable but musically unimpressive soundtracks

i liked DeS' soundtrack because it was minimalistic and had clear melodies. Starting from DS1 the music became progressively more and more homogenous and overproduced, with lots of musical instruments and choir blaring in the background.

I haven't played the ps5 remake, but i saw a bunch of gameplay clips and i listened to the reimagined OST, and it had all the problems of those later Souls games - it was overly bombastic and overproduced, while at the same time less memorable.

[Vergil]

My dark twisted poison nightmare is over...

[Lich]

DeS > Bloodborne > DS2 >>> DS >>>>> Elden Ring >>>>>>> DS3

[Vergil]

I wonder how many people creaming over Bloodborne have played it at all recently considering it's locked to the gaystation.

[rusty_shackleford]

Mass Effect >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> DeS > Bloodborne > DS2 >>> DS >>>>> Elden Ring >>>>>>> DS3

Fixed

[Lich]

DeS > Bloodborne > DS2 >>> DS >>>>> Elden Ring >>>>>>> DS3 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mass Effect

Fixed

Thanks. Informative!

[swolenigga]

I think part of the reason Shulva was so nightmarish to me was that I was playing during that period where everything had been taken offline for a while so there were zero player messages or anything like that. It's an extremely puzzle focused area with a confusing layout so having to raw dog it was the worst possible was to experience it.

christ you're stupid

have you ever done a brain scan to get the crayon out of your meatglob?

[Lich]

I think part of the reason Shulva was so nightmarish to me was that I was playing during that period where everything had been taken offline for a while so there were zero player messages or anything like that. It's an extremely puzzle focused area with a confusing layout so having to raw dog it was the worst possible was to experience it.

You sound very filtered for someone who claims to have played this game before.

[Vergil]

I think part of the reason Shulva was so nightmarish to me was that I was playing during that period where everything had been taken offline for a while so there were zero player messages or anything like that. It's an extremely puzzle focused area with a confusing layout so having to raw dog it was the worst possible was to experience it.

You sound very filtered for someone who claims to have played this game before.

I never played through Shulva. Back when I played this game all the time the dlc wasn't even out.

[Vergil]

Would unironically do this to however created fume knight

[wndrbr]

Don't be greedy.

[Vergil]

Sauronpilled crown

[Lich]

Sauronpilled crown

What weapons and spells are you using?

[Vergil]

Sauronpilled crown

What weapons and spells are you using?

Raw infused Bluemoon Greatsword +10

[Lich]

Sauronpilled crown

What weapons and spells are you using?

Raw infused Bluemoon Greatsword +10

Why lol

[Vergil]

What weapons and spells are you using?

Raw infused Bluemoon Greatsword +10

Why lol

S'cool

[Lich]

Raw infused Bluemoon Greatsword +10

Why lol

S'cool

Moonlight Greatsword is cooler and you can get it in your first playthrough by using a bonfire ascetic.

[Vergil]

Why lol

S'cool

Moonlight Greatsword is cooler and you can get it in your first playthrough by using a bonfire ascetic.

I didn't want to try and get through that area/boss with NG+ difficulty and the bluemoon sword is very powerful for how early you can get it but I might go and do that now. Does the Moonlight Greatsword still have the same moveset? A big draw to bluemoon is that it basically had the same moveset as the ******* sword I was using which I like a lot.

EDIT: Nevermind there have been violent gangrapes that resulted in death more enjoyable than brightstone cove on NG+

EDIT EDIT: Never nevermind I sodomized Navlaan so it was doable. Got the soul.

[Vergil]

Oh the real Moonlight Greatsword is basically unusable with my build cool