Why does every MMO go to crap?

[rusty_shackleford]

I miss Star wars galaxies

SWG Legends has an active playerbase and gets content updates
https://swglegends.com/

Not emulated, the server+client sourcecode and database was leaked some years back.

[Nooneatall]

I miss Star wars galaxies

SWG Legends has an active playerbase and gets content updates
https://swglegends.com/

Not emulated, the server+client sourcecode and database was leaked some years back.

Yeah I know I mess around with it every once in awhile. I should go through and grind tkm someday.

[Trickster]

I miss Star wars galaxies

SWG Legends has an active playerbase and gets content updates
https://swglegends.com/

Not emulated, the server+client sourcecode and database was leaked some years back.

I hope **** doesn't happen like with SMT: Imagine when a greedy publisher sued people who revived a dead game.

[rusty_shackleford]

I miss Star wars galaxies

SWG Legends has an active playerbase and gets content updates
https://swglegends.com/

Not emulated, the server+client sourcecode and database was leaked some years back.

I hope **** doesn't happen like with SMT: Imagine when a greedy publisher sued people who revived a dead game.

Almost certainly won't because nobody actually knows who owns SWG. The IP has traded hands too many times, and it's not Disney that owns it because it was licensed out.

[Norfleet]

Why does everything go to crap? Answer: Entropy. The entropy of a closed system must always increase, therefore, everything inevitably goes to crap. You can only stave it off by pumping continuous energy into it (which just makes everything else worse on net), and eventually the will to do so runs out.

[WhiteShark]

I hope Ross' Stop Killing Games campaign succeeds and forces companies to release server software for MMOs they close. Even better if they (are forced to) release a means for playing older versions of the games since the universal trend is that the best version is from slightly after launch.

[Cipher]

I remember back around Mists of Pandaria (iirc), that if you paid your sub they would gift you a max level character so you could jump right into the post-game.

I've seen similar in several games and it absolutely baffles me. Who is this for? Returning players can just log back in and continue with their high level characters. Do new players actually want to skip 90% of a game's content? I know I don't.

As I said in my post, it is about "bringing more wallets" into the game. WhiteShark, convince some of your friends to play, if they pay now, they can even get a max level character to join YOU in the post-game! Spare them the horrible ordeal of actually playing the game. Peer pressure them into joining you now! And, wouldn't you know? If they pay for 1 entire year, they get a massive discount as well as a HOST of goodies. Convince them to pay us, quickly, before the offer expires!

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I remember back around Mists of Pandaria (iirc), that if you paid your sub they would gift you a max level character so you could jump right into the post-game.

I've seen similar in several games and it absolutely baffles me. Who is this for? Returning players can just log back in and continue with their high level characters. Do new players actually want to skip 90% of a game's content? I know I don't.

The problem with Retail WoW is that the fun is at the endgame, ie current level cap in current expansion land doing the current raid or zone with other people. Anything before that is mostly devoid of challenge (due to powercreep) and people to bump into and interact with, ergo not fun. It is not fun to be spending hours and hours doing mediocre sidequesting in Outland by yourself when everyone is in Pandaria doing Timeless Isle and the Siege of Orgrimmar raid. Most people will not tolerate doing that and lots of people dropped before they made it to endgame, hence why the level boost exists to try to fast forward people past a boring experience to the more fun part. This was not the case in Vanilla as all content was relevant and being played at all levels. People couldn't get catchup gear and skip past Molten Core and so on and just do the latest raid of Naxxramas, so people were still coming and going through the old raids to progress, and veteran players coming back to earlier content to help their friends and to also flex with their better gear.

[Norfleet]

The problem with Retail WoW is that the fun is at the endgame, ie current level cap in current expansion land doing the current raid or zone with other people.

That's basically true of nearly all MMOs: All the older content is rendered effectively invalid by the new stuff, being that it no longer plays a relevant role in anything.

[Xenich]

The problem with Retail WoW is that the fun is at the endgame, ie current level cap in current expansion land doing the current raid or zone with other people.

That's basically true of nearly all MMOs: All the older content is rendered effectively invalid by the new stuff, being that it no longer plays a relevant role in anything.

I never understood why more MMOs don't reuse content. There is no reason instanced content shouldn't have checks for higher level player entry which spawns level range appropriate mobs in the dungeon, or even repopulates the dungeon with a variation of the main theme, but for a higher level players. They could do this in iterations as levels get higher and higher reusing all the existing older instance content within equal progression of level tiers.

Heck there is no reason they couldn't populate non-instance areas with high levels mobs etc... similar to how EQ did which connects some story relevance to those dungeons.

[Norfleet]

I never understood why more MMOs don't reuse content. There is no reason instanced content shouldn't have checks for higher level player entry which spawns level range appropriate mobs in the dungeon

That isn't what kills content. Few people care if the mobs are level-appropriate. Levels are purely a form of artificial gate, anyway. No, what kills content is no longer being relevant to the game. When the end reward of a dungeon is that it drops some worthless **** from 3 seasons ago that is completely outclasssed by vendor greens as the grand prize for winning, what the **** is the point?

At this point, if you're there at all, it MIGHT be to experience the story of the dungeon. In which case you are not going to want "level-appropriate" mobs that you have to use modern gearing to face, because you're going to be soloing this dump, as you're gonna have a ***** of a time pulling a group to play it.

THAT is what kills content. Content can remain alive and active IF it is not actively killed off by mechanical power creep. But the moment it falls too far behind meta (and is often too difficult to get the prize from for even B- or C-tier gearing), the population is going to tank. Best case scenario, a few outliers hang around because their reward was a cool cosmetic, which thus renders it immune to being power-creeped. But it's VERY hard (and a total crapshoot) to somehow make a desirable cosmetic for EVERY dungeon, as even if you made this a pattern where every dungeon dropped at least one cosmetic item, you're even less able to guarantee that the cosmetic will be popular, because at least meta is a lever you as a dev can control. You can't control cosmetic popularity.

But story? In a dungeon? Forget it. Everyone knows dungeon runners quickly just tearass through the place, even if it's not a speedrun, because most everyone has already seen the same lame cutscene 30 bajillion times.

[Xenich]

I never understood why more MMOs don't reuse content. There is no reason instanced content shouldn't have checks for higher level player entry which spawns level range appropriate mobs in the dungeon

That isn't what kills content. Few people care if the mobs are level-appropriate. Levels are purely a form of artificial gate, anyway. No, what kills content is no longer being relevant to the game. When the end reward of a dungeon is that it drops some worthless **** from 3 seasons ago that is completely outclasssed by vendor greens as the grand prize for winning, what the **** is the point?

At this point, if you're there at all, it MIGHT be to experience the story of the dungeon. In which case you are not going to want "level-appropriate" mobs that you have to use modern gearing to face, because you're going to be soloing this dump, as you're gonna have a ***** of a time pulling a group to play it.

THAT is what kills content. Content can remain alive and active IF it is not actively killed off by mechanical power creep. But the moment it falls too far behind meta (and is often too difficult to get the prize from for even B- or C-tier gearing), the population is going to tank. Best case scenario, a few outliers hang around because their reward was a cool cosmetic, which thus renders it immune to being power-creeped. But it's VERY hard (and a total crapshoot) to somehow make a desirable cosmetic for EVERY dungeon, as even if you made this a pattern where every dungeon dropped at least one cosmetic item, you're even less able to guarantee that the cosmetic will be popular, because at least meta is a lever you as a dev can control. You can't control cosmetic popularity.

But story? In a dungeon? Forget it. Everyone knows dungeon runners quickly just tearass through the place, even if it's not a speedrun, because most everyone has already seen the same lame cutscene 30 bajillion times.

My suggestion assumes the gear would be relevant to current level gear and each iteration would synergize with the current expansions content at level. The Gear Carrot is key to MMOs, without it... there is really no point.

[A Chinese opium den]

Its because MMOs are gay, don't know what to tell you.

[J1M]

It sounds like you want to collect things that you know will be made obsolete by a patch.

[Vergil]

SWG Legends has an active playerbase and gets content updates

Is it fun now or do you just run around the desert for 9 hours pretending you're playing a video game?

[Xenich]

It sounds like you want to collect things that you know will be made obsolete by a patch.

I prefer DDO's approach of collecting things that get used each reincarnation. The whole throw in the garbage each time new content comes out I don't care for, but unfortunately with games like WoW the system is kind of hard focused to it from the start.

[Norfleet]

My suggestion assumes the gear would be relevant to current level gear and each iteration would synergize with the current expansions content at level. The Gear Carrot is key to MMOs, without it... there is really no point.

That's really quite the challenge to do. In one ****** dead game I used to play, gear didn't technically have a "level" at all. All gear was technically considered to be on the same power level, and indeed, many older pieces are/were relevant despite newer pieces dropping.

The problem is that ultimately, one has limited slots, and certain things are necessarily best-in-slot. And if everything is the SAME power level, there isn't a ladder to climb, either: The moment you're ready to play endgame content, you're ready to immediately farm best-in-slot. Thus it became increasingly difficult to justify the existence of much of other content.

[Xenich]

My suggestion assumes the gear would be relevant to current level gear and each iteration would synergize with the current expansions content at level. The Gear Carrot is key to MMOs, without it... there is really no point.

That's really quite the challenge to do. In one ****** dead game I used to play, gear didn't technically have a "level" at all. All gear was technically considered to be on the same power level, and indeed, many older pieces are/were relevant despite newer pieces dropping.

The problem is that ultimately, one has limited slots, and certain things are necessarily best-in-slot. And if everything is the SAME power level, there isn't a ladder to climb, either: The moment you're ready to play endgame content, you're ready to immediately farm best-in-slot. Thus it became increasingly difficult to justify the existence of much of other content.

True, which is why gear should change over time to different focuses. That is, take a set of expansions that have a story progression or relevance and the gear is focused to a certain means (mitigation, damage type, etc...). Then, a new set of expansion progression begins and from the introduction on to the pinnacle of that progression, gear "slowly" (no raiders throwing away their gear like they did from Vanilla to BC and being forced to wear green lowbie blues immediately) begins to shift in its focus through mitigation type, damage weapons do or focus on, etc...

Existing gear can be repurposed through crafting (ie augments, enchanting, quest turn ins, etc...). Each "set" (3+) of expansions introduces some new effects, mechanics and this synergizes with certain gear focuses.

It would take tweaking, but the point is not only would old content be repurposed (with various additions to dungeons and the like), but so would old gear as well be made relevant to current expansion needs (ie questing old dungeons for gear that could be used in the process to enhance and expand new content focus).

If implemented correctly through proper adjustment, the game could be more cyclical in its use of older content and progression. No more "throw it all away" and chase a new carrot. Players efforts to past play would be relevant to new play, making that time spent have value regardless of new expansion.