Why so few shooters games with ammo customization?

[WaterMage]

Think in Bf3/4, Children Online Daycare, etc. In many games, you can change everything in your guns, from the muzzle break to the stock. But not ammo. With modern Fallout games, FL:NV allows you to use incendiary, slugs, coin shots, and tons of types of ammo in your shotgun. In Bugthesda fallouts, you can only use the "buckshot" ammo.

And some games even make all weapons of the same category use the same ammo. For example, in FC3, every sniper uses the same ammo, so the AMR firing explosive armor-piercing ammo capable of OHKilling any animal and destroying armored helicopters with few shots (if you hit engines or rotors) uses the same "resource" of a Dragunov. In Escape from Tarkov, .338 LM armor piercing, which can outright ignore any armor in the game (and IRL can pierce even some armored vehicles armor), is ultra expensive and hence rarely used. Having this type of ammo as a rare resource can force the player to think twice before using such ammo.

And is not a matter of complexity. For example, in 7d2d, every "short" firearm uses 9mm with two exceptions using 44 magnum(a revolver and desert eagle vulture), and every long firearm uses 7.62, but you can craft and load different types of ammo. Armor-piercing ammo is great for horde nights as it can kill multiple zombies with one shot. But also has the problem of damaging your own base and also can deal easily with soldiers turned into zombies in armor. Hollow point does increased damage against unarmored enemies but is worthless against the most heavily armored enemies. Shotguns can use slugs and breaching ammo, but if you want to use dragon breath and more exotic ammo, you need to mod the game.

[Oyster Sauce]

Feature bloat. In FNV I used the strongest ammo I had until I ran out, then the second strongest, then the third strongest. There's functionally no meaningful difference between swapping to electric bullets to fight a robot and switching to an electric gun.

[wndrbr]

Having too many ammo types makes inventory/resource management feel frustrating. Most of the time the combat systems aren't even complex enough to warrant many alternative ammo types anyway.

[WaterMage]

Having too many ammo types makes inventory/resource management feel frustrating. Most of the time the combat systems aren't even complex enough to warrant many alternative ammo types anyway.

Disagreed. Look to Bioshock, every gun has 3 ammo types. It gives much more variety to each gun.

Feature bloat. In FNV I used the strongest ammo I had until I ran out, then the second strongest, then the third strongest. There's functionally no meaningful difference between swapping to electric bullets to fight a robot and switching to an electric gun.

This with energy weapons, And there are a difference between swamping to electric bullets or swtiching to a electric gun. The dev don't need to make new models and animations. The gun also weights much more than ammo. In hardcore, carrying few .308 AP ammo weights much less than carrying another new gun.

If the game threats ammo type poorly, is game fault, not the idea of multiple ammo types fault.

See UnderRail for eg. Another game that did ammo in a spectacular way.

[wndrbr]

Bioshock is a game with a very small amount of guns. Having multiple ammo types per weapon in a game with dozens (if not hundreds) of guns would be suboptimal.

It's alright when the "alternative ammo" is something that's only appliable to specific weapons (i.e. a grenade launcher that can be loaded with HE/incendiary/gas grenades, or a shotgun that can be loaded with buckshot/dragonbreath/breaching slugs), having this as a broad feature is just bloat.

It'll make the game more difficult for the gamedesingers to balance too.

[wndrbr]

I actually like when a game combines the various different ammo types into one unified type. Unless your game is an open world survival sim with a focus on resource management elements, it doesn't matter if your rifle is loaded with .308, or 8mm mauser, or 7.62x54r - it may as well be just 'rifle ammo'. In a videogame there would be no difference between these full-powered cartridges except for the fact that they'd be used in different guns.

Medal of Honor games had M1 Garand, scoped Springfield and Kar98 all sharing the same abstract "rifle rounds", and it was fine. In Resident Evil 4 all pistols (USP, Mauser Red9, FN Five Seven, etc) all share the same abstract "pistol rounds", and it's fine.

[WaterMage]

in a game with dozens (if not hundreds) of guns would be suboptimal.

Well, again check UnderRail.

It'll make the game more difficult for the gamedesingers to balance too.

**** Balance. It destroys games as much as equality cultism destroys societies. I don't care if is unbalanced. Being able to load dragon breath rounds in my shotgun and watch my enemies in fire in FNV, being able to line multiple zombies and kill multiple zombies with a single 7,62 AP shot in 7d2d, being able to make enemy armor irrelevant with a .338 LM AP in Escape from Tarkov is cool. Being able to use poison arrows or explosive arrows in Dragon's Dogma is cool.

One aspect that I liked BF1 over BF3/4 is that BF1 brought K-bullets to Recon and brought incendiary ammo for certain support machine guns. In BF3, is so ridiculous that a 7,62 machine gun mounted in a vehicle can damage even ground attack helicopters but the same 7,62 machine gun in infantry hands can't damage unarmored vehicles. Hell, .408 CT can't do it too.

it doesn't matter if your rifle is loaded with .308, or 8mm mauser, or 7.62x54r - it may as well be just 'rifle ammo'.

Disagreed. Firing a .22 LR rifle or a 14.5x114mm and spending the same resource even for a pure gameplay standpoint is ridiculous.

Medal of Honor games had M1 Garand, scoped Springfield and Kar98 all sharing the same abstract "rifle rounds", and it was fine. In Resident Evil 4 all pistols (USP, Mauser Red9, FN Five Seven, etc) all share the same abstract "pistol rounds", and it's fine.

Five Seven IRL has great penetration against armor. In many games, this is complete ignored.

[ArcaneLurker]

Usually a gun is made for a specific ammo type. Whether it's the barrel or some kind of sci-fi/ fantasy mechanism.
If the gameplay involves a lot of looting and scarcity of ammo, it makes sense to have the different types available, to hopefully prompt a slight variety of gameplay.

[Tweed]

System Shock did it right, most guns had two to choose from. A few were utilitarian like tranq darts. Most were heavier penetration or damage for enemies with heavier armor. In one case it was simply a bigger magazine for the weapon.

[Element]

Just make more weapons

[WaterMage]

Just make more weapons

Yes, have a pump action shotgun with buckshot, a pump action shotgun with slugs, a pump action shotgun with birdshot, a pump action shotgun with dragon breath ammo, a pump action shotgun with slugs armor piercing /sarcasm

[Tweed]

Just make more weapons

Yes, have a pump action shotgun with buckshot, a pump action shotgun with slugs, a pump action shotgun with birdshot, a pump action shotgun with dragon breath ammo, a pump action shotgun with slugs armor piercing /sarcasm

Some games did. STALKER had a rifled shotgun specifically for firing slugs and darts better than a standard shotgun, but it couldn't shoot buckshot. For some odd reason Legacy: Realm of Terror had a Savage Arms shotgun modified to shoot rock salt, as in chunks of rock salt. The reason for this was to kill huge worms under the ground.

[Xenich]

I actually like when a game combines the various different ammo types into one unified type. Unless your game is an open world survival sim with a focus on resource management elements, it doesn't matter if your rifle is loaded with .308, or 8mm mauser, or 7.62x54r - it may as well be just 'rifle ammo'. In a videogame there would be no difference between these full-powered cartridges except for the fact that they'd be used in different guns.

Medal of Honor games had M1 Garand, scoped Springfield and Kar98 all sharing the same abstract "rifle rounds", and it was fine. In Resident Evil 4 all pistols (USP, Mauser Red9, FN Five Seven, etc) all share the same abstract "pistol rounds", and it's fine.

I wish they did though. I think it would be cool if more attention were paid to the capability of various rounds in a more detailed fashion so as to properly represent their capability in different situations.

[WaterMage]

I wish they did though. I think it would be cool if more attention were paid to the capability of various rounds in a more detailed fashion so as to properly represent their capability in different situations.

Yep. For, in VtMB, vampire hunters should be using Dragon Breath rounds against the charname in my shotgun as they are weak against fire and resistant vs "piercing" damage. If there is werewolves, having a small part of the bullet made of silver can help.

in Skyrim, a very dumbed down game, there are 8 types of crossbow bolts.

[WaterMage]

One game that I'm playing is Combat Master.

Is not a milsim, is a very arcadeish game and ... You can customize ammo. MAC-10 for eg can use 9mm or .45 ACP.



And there are "premium" rifles which one of the features is that you can use on it is that they have "tracer" ammo that leaves some effect behind. In case of the "Wolf" pack( https://combat-master.fandom.com/wiki/Wolf_Package ), Remington 700 "Moonshadow", it fires a "icy" tracer effect. And as you can see, I can use it in conjunction with FMJ ammo. There is also the ability to use hollow point and other "weapon perks".

[Finarfin]

One game that I'm playing is Combat Master.

Is not a milsim, is a very arcadeish game and ... You can customize ammo. MAC-10 for eg can use 9mm or .45 ACP.



And there are "premium" rifles which one of the features is that you can use on it is that they have "tracer" ammo that leaves some effect behind. In case of the "Wolf" pack( https://combat-master.fandom.com/wiki/Wolf_Package ), Remington 700 "Moonshadow", it fires a "icy" tracer effect. And as you can see, I can use it in conjunction with FMJ ammo. There is also the ability to use hollow point and other "weapon perks".

>khokhol game
>full of ukro emblems and slava oinkraini messages
No thank you.

[anonusername]

Custom ammo is best done as a form of alternate firing mode on specific weapons. e.g. Allowing a shotgun to swap between buckshot and slugs. Actually managing the exact ammo calibers and loads is way too autistic for all but the most niche games.

[rusty_shackleford]

only time I cared enough to swap ammo was in underrail because it was turn-based

[A Chinese opium den]

Ammo customization only works in games that are dedicated to the scavenging progression style, otherwise it just becomes a matter of picking the best one and always using it(which it does in late wipe tarkov as well). I think the newer call of duties (or at least DMZ which I've played) have the option to change ammo for different stat boosts related to the type, which works pretty well since COD has always been a game series where you unlock increasingly strong attatchments for using a gun.

[Kronus]

STALKER CoP & mods do a great service when it comes to ammo types, and everyone feels and functions very different one from another. AP was a lategame must for anything but mutants.

As for today's stuff well, I guess most might want to feel satisfied with a 'bare minimum' if we got the FPS equivalent to SM2 or anything similar, that at least has functional basic gameplay mechanics and dares to be mildly engaging for a while without being a blatant ripoff or a microtransaction shitfest.

[WaterMage]

>khokhol game
>full of ukro emblems and slava oinkraini messages
No thank you.

Sorry but I rather play games made by slavs than by ESG AAA Commiefornia. BTW, the Stalker dev used to identify himself as "russian" but thanks to the KGB Dwarf stupidity now a Ukrainian nationalist and donates millions and millions to Ukrainian army.

only time I cared enough to swap ammo was in underrail because it was turn-based

In FNV, did you never loaded a shotgun with dragon breath rounds? Is very fun.

[Lich]

Sorry but I rather play games made by slavs than by ESG AAA Commiefornia. BTW, the Stalker dev used to identify himself as "russian" but thanks to the KGB Dwarf stupidity now a Ukrainian nationalist and donates millions and millions to Ukrainian army.

"I rather eat **** than eat diarrhea"

[WaterMage]

"I rather eat **** than eat diarrhea"

Yep. The polish Tainted Grail : The fall of Avalon and Dragon Age : Failguard/Avowed are the same **** /sarcasm

Jokes aside, the unique bad Polish studio imo is CDPR.

[Lich]

"I rather eat **** than eat diarrhea"

Yep. The polish Tainted Grail : The fall of Avalon and Dragon Age : Failguard/Avowed are the same **** /sarcasm

Jokes aside, the unique bad Polish studio imo is CDPR.

Enjoy your diarrhea.

[WaterMage]

Enjoy your diarrhea.

Yep. I love a "diarrhea" of a Celtic mythology themed game where the people looks like Celts and I can use spears like this :



Lets be real, if the same game was made by a commiefornian, you would be chilling for this game. And the game will be full of Afrocyber pansexual celts.

[herkzter]

a game's gunplay design has to be designed to accommodate using various types of ammo. as Tweed mentioned, it's done in STALKER well because each type of specialized ammo has a specific use for certain situations

if it's an afterthought, then specialized types of ammo for weapons will just quite literally collect dust in your stashes or inventory

[wndrbr]

[WaterMage]

You are missing the most important. Chechen milk extraction farms. This therm caused so much butthurt among vatniks in codex... Jokes aside, I only talk about Milei in the thread about his government. Same with Frankfurt school and Yuri Bezmenov, many people criticize "wokeness" and the wokeness has a source, I'm just pointing out the origins of the modern wokeness. About the AMR in FNV, I mentioned far more the shotguns in New Vegas in this thread. Either way sorry for committing the ultimate heresy of liking more

This :



Over ******** bugthesda gun design **** like this :



Believe or not, this is supposed to be a "assault rifle"

[WaterMage]

Other thing that I forgot to say.

By having multiple ammo, you can use the same ammo in multiple weapon categories where it makes sense. For example, in underrail, there are 15 weapons which can use 9mm ( https://stygiansoftware.com/wiki/index. ... Acid_Round ), in FNV, you start the game with a rusky bolt action in 556. Then can find a semi auto carbine in 556 and in end game, have a marksman semi auto rifle in the same caliber or a light machine gun. It allows a good progression without making numbers ridiculous high.

[Norfleet]

So few shooters have ammo customization because in 99% of cases, it boils down to "the good ammo" and "the **** ammo you only use because you're conserving or out of the good ammo". Even real life is not as picky about ammo types as you might think. You don't really need armor-piercing ammo to fight armored opponents. People who are shot multiple will fall down, armor or no. They might not die if the bullets don't penetrate, but they WILL be down and you can just finish them with your bayonet.