What makes Kingdom Come: Deliverance an RPG?

[Nooneatall]

I guess Disco really is an RPG then.

Yeah I'll fight against that. I'm sure people saying final fantasy isnt an RPG are quick to say that ****** visual novel is.
Anyone who likes that "game" is a *** with no valid opinions.

[Zothique]

I really let myself get dragged into an autistic thread...

Yeah, I'm amazed at how much of a new low this is, even for this place.

[rusty_shackleford]

I really let myself get dragged into an autistic thread...

Yeah, I'm amazed at how much of a new low this is, even for this place.

idgi, I think it's good to have discussions to refine definitions

[Xenich]

I really let myself get dragged into an autistic thread...

Yeah, I'm amazed at how much of a new low this is, even for this place.

idgi, I think it's good to have discussions to refine definitions

The alternative is dumbed down generations of people who have no clue what a word means and prefer to use the cycle of idiomatic iterations of words termed by low intellects.

[rusty_shackleford]

What is the closest game to KCD that's not considered an RPG?
RDR2, perhaps?

[somerandomdude]

When I saw 8 arrows sticking out of a dude's face, and he was still coming at me completely un-phased, that's how I know it's an RPG.

[The_Mask]

I agree with you that stuff like Dark Souls is not an RPG.

Heathen.

[Xenich]

What is the closest game to KCD that's not considered an RPG?
RDR2, perhaps?

Thief series? All action based play, with tools, no character development (that I can remember). Only difference is that its play is segmented into missions.

[Cipher]

I agree with you that stuff like Dark Souls is not an RPG.

Heathen.

What makes it an RPG? Stats on gear and level ups? Because other games that are most definitely not RPGs also have that. Is it the setting? Because other games that are most definitely RPGs are not in fantasy based setting.

[Xenich]

I agree with you that stuff like Dark Souls is not an RPG.

Heathen.

What makes it an RPG? Stats on gear and level ups? Because other games that are most definitely not RPGs also have that. Is it the setting? Because other games that are most definitely RPGs are not in fantasy based setting.

That is why I think key elements of an RPG are things like "to hit", "damage and scaling", etc... essentially gated mechanics that require development to surpass an obstacle. This can be done with levels, skills, attributes, etc... but must require development for continued progression.

Granted, it isn't "exact", there are some contentions possibly, but it is a general aspect that I think clearly defines the function of an RPG.

As we discussed, just having them present doesn't establish that it is an RPG, rather if it is required.

I think too many games have "RPG aspects" for flavor (as we pointed out with Dark Souls), but if they aren't required, its just an action, adventure, etc.. game as its base.

Where this gets a bit... cloudy is Strategy games, but then I think they are more clearly defined by their style, presentation, and format as their focus is a bit different (few games that are strategy do I think... is this an RPG and not a strategy game due to their clear presentation).

[TKVNC]

You have to roll back the clock to the early 20th Century to a **** one of G-d's chosen people called Jacob Levy Moreno.

Basically psychodrama is 'pretending' to be someone else, and experiencing their emotions / view / sense of events. That's really the origin of 'role play'.

So I guess we can apply that - an RPG is only a game where you're taking the role of someone else, and experiencing their view, emotions, or senses (even if they're simulated); ultimately it has nothing to do with actual 'mechanics'.

Which makes me think that any game where there is a scripted character, and scripted story to which that character plays a vital, irreplacable role, is not an RPG. Because you're not experiencing their emotions, as such - just watching a, albeit non-linear, movie play.

KCD is not an RPG because Henry -HAS- to be Henry for the story to work, he can't be Peter, or Thomas, or anyone else -- conversely, Skyrim while scripted, the story can be experienced from the lens of anyone.

[WhiteShark]

You have to roll back the clock to the early 20th Century to a **** one of G-d's chosen people called Jacob Levy Moreno.

Basically psychodrama is 'pretending' to be someone else, and experiencing their emotions / view / sense of events. That's really the origin of 'role play'.

That's not what roleplaying means in the context of roleplaying games. Roleplaying games are sub-tactical scale wargames. 'Role' refers to the combat role of a character. That's why the classes revolve around combat. Your role is your battlefield function.

[TKVNC]

sub-tactical scale wargames

What.

[WhiteShark]

sub-tactical scale wargames

What.

The 'tactical scale' normally refers to one player controlling a small squad of soldiers. Since you typically only control a single character in (tabletop) RPGs, they're termed 'sub-tactical'.

[Ratcatcher]

RPG means Rusty Played (this) Game. I thought many of you were still confused about this simple concept, hence the clarification. Scroll past if you already knew this.

[Yankee Zulu]

Look at the settlemet in this game. Its not a deadzone with mamequins instead of people.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/1ItNYP9U1 ... fo=0&rel=0

[Galdred]

we were having some DEEPTHINKS in chat, and i wanted to move it to the forum.

Almost everything depends on the character skill and not the player skill. Combat gives a strong illusion of being about player skill, but the enemy blocking or not depend on a roll against the relative warfare vs defense skills.
Granted, you can abuse the game design issues and masterstrike your way to victory, but that still is much easier with a good character than a bad one.

[Tweed]

It's an RPG because I say it is.

[rusty_shackleford]

games where you can be good at everything rank really low on the RPG scale

KCD is an RPG because it's medieval, if it was sci-fi with the same mechanics it would be considered an action game with RPG elements

depending on character skill means nothing when your character can be good at everything, plenty of action games depend on character skills that eventually max out

[Oyster Sauce]

games where you can be good at everything rank really low on the RPG scale

gothicbros not like this...

[rusty_shackleford]

games where you can be good at everything rank really low on the RPG scale

gothicbros not like this...

Because of how the game gates progress it's not quite the same, but the gothic games definitely have this issue in the latter part.

[rusty_shackleford]

games where you can be good at everything rank really low on the RPG scale

gothicbros not like this...

Also, @wndrbr was right, Gothic games do have choices and specialization, it's just not very obvious.

in KCD: you don't get to choose a faction to join, you don't have to make a choice which attribute to main, and you don't decide which weapon skill to max out.

If KCD was a gothic-like game, there would be a choice of a faction and a specialization, i.e. either join sir Hanush' faction to get access to sir Bernard's skill training (by the end of the game you become an armor-clad knight), or join sir Radzig's faction to get access to roguish skills (by the endgame you become Radzig's squire and get to do the covert ops wetwork), or stay as an independent and hone your skills with Father Godwin (you become a warrior-monk-poet).

As it is, KCD's main plot is a bit too railroaded, even after you finish the prologue.

[maidenhaver]

I started this game last night and rage quit when I couldn't beat the thieving **** in a fist fight.

The first 3-4 hours are very cinematic, at one point I forgot I was playing a game and not watching an HBO show.

Mafia was the same. All you did was drive to cutscenes.

[TKVNC]

The presence of black excellence makes KCD an RPG.

Fundamentally, being an RPG is about having malians in your game.

[rusty_shackleford]

I played it again for a bit and it's definitely an action game with RPG elements.

There's no character building which is an important aspect of RPGs. Even Witcher 3 had some character building, choices, etc., This is easily the biggest knock against the game, there's really only two possible Henry characters: Henry who doesn't sin, and Henry who sins. They really only differ in whether they commit crimes or not. The main difference between KCD and most Zelda games is just quest design.

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I prefer learn by use tho over most other advancement systems tbh

[Vergil]

Sounds like even that option is gonna be gone once Henry canonically commits the german vice with his boyfriend.

[rusty_shackleford]

I played it again for a bit and it's definitely an action game with RPG elements.

There's no character building which is an important aspect of RPGs. Even Witcher 3 had some character building, choices, etc., This is easily the biggest knock against the game, there's really only two possible Henry characters: Henry who doesn't sin, and Henry who sins. They really only differ in whether they commit crimes or not. The main difference between KCD and most Zelda games is just quest design.

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I prefer learn by use tho over most other advancement systems tbh

Another point in RPG favor is the inventory, categorization by differentiation.

Detailed inventory(item) mechanics are the realm of the RPG genre.
Survivy-crafty games have it too, but they tend to nearly always be at least part RPG. Survival horror games do not, which may sound weird at first, but the inventory exists as a form of resource management rather than for the same purpose as RPGs — RPGs can and sometimes do use inventories as resource management, however.

But still, like survivy crafty games, it remains just RPG elements.

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Also, I forgot how much of the gameworld is completely uninteractable compared to TES games. Perfect example of when I previously posted how the Creation engine heavily carries Bethesda. If you see something in a TES game that might be something you'd want to interact with, you can probably interact with it.
Seeing entire bookshelves that are just static uninteractable props is sad.

[Vergil]

Nothing wrong with the creation engine bethesda just has a drought of decent staff, aren't ambitious anymore, and focus heavily on console limitations.

[Irenaeus]

No *******.

[Oyster Sauce]

Also, I forgot how much of the gameworld is completely uninteractable compared to TES games. Perfect example of when I previously posted how the Creation engine heavily carries Bethesda. If you see something in a TES game that might be something you'd want to interact with, you can probably interact with it.
Seeing entire bookshelves that are just static uninteractable props is sad.

On the other hand, it's nice that NPCs will go pick up brooms, buckets, or farm tools and actually use them. They even put them away when they're done instead of grabbing them from their inventory like a Skyrim villager might. There are pros and cons with each game's props immersion-wise.