Why is Fallout interpreted as a 'critique of capitalism'?

[rusty_shackleford]

Yeah, I asked the source. We didn't used to put agenda messages like that in our games back then, it's a more recent phenomenen.

https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Hubologists
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Daniel_Bird

Not really the same, I'd put that at the same level as parodies which FO2 is absolutely full of.

[Vergil]

Not really the same, I'd put that at the same level as parodies which FO2 is absolutely full of.

Maybe if they were out of the way side characters but Hubologists are a major faction you have to interact with and the other is the vice president next door to the leader of the main enemy faction.
Not to mention all the allegories for heckin racismarinos with Vault City.

[rusty_shackleford]

Not to mention all the allegories for heckin racismarinos with Vault City.

You mean the black first citizen(Lynette) that was made black specifically to highlight that traits libtards see in whites aren't unique to whites? Avellone has spoken about this prior.

Furthermore, I suspect that she was made a black character to add an additional edge to her hypocrisy over slavery

[Vergil]

Not to mention all the allegories for heckin racismarinos with Vault City.

You mean the black first citizen(Lynette) that was made black specifically to highlight that traits libtards see in whites aren't unique to whites? Avellone has spoken about this prior.

Furthermore, I suspect that she was made a black character to add an additional edge to her hypocrisy over slavery

This is the same logic as "internalized racism" that you see today. It's even worse for her to be a dirty evil fascist (who dares to not allow infinite immigration of random wasteland trash into her city) because she's black and should know better! The point is they very clearly did put politics in there. Chris Avellone and Fallout 2 are some of the worst examples of the sort of **** you see commonly now in an older game.

[rusty_shackleford]

I think the real question is, who was old enough on the FO2 dev team to have been alive as an adult to experience Quaylisms? Avellone would have been much too young.

This is the same logic as "internalized racism" that you see today. It's even worse for her to be a dirty evil fascist (who dares to not allow infinite immigration of random wasteland trash into her city) because she's black and should know better! The point is they very clearly did put politics in there. Chris Avellone and Fallout 2 are some of the worst examples of the sort of **** you see commonly now in an older game.

As for why Lynette's a *****... well, Lynette does have an extreme managerial, economic, and efficient soul, and she's used to getting her way. She wasn't abused, tortured, or twisted in any way when she was young, she just got a certain privileged and superiority complex hardwired into her head around five or six years old, and she's never been the same. She's always known that she was destined to lead the Vault 8 Citizens, and that power has gone to her head.

She's been the leader of Vault City for many, many years, and she's seen the worst that the wasteland has to offer - but rather than taking sympathy on the poor souls that have come to Vault City for protection, she has instead taken the view that these "outlanders" were simply not strong or smart enough to achieve what Vault City has, and thus, are inferior. She tends to work too much and too hard, and she sees all her time as precious, so she has little patience for socializing without a purpose (i.e., if it doesn't involve politicking, she's going to be working late at the office instead) or for people dropping in and wasting her time.

This is just a stereotype of rich kids who get given everything and tend to act much like she does.

It makes more sense if instead of thinking of national immigration, you think on smaller scale. These people gatekeep the hell out of their neighborhoods. There's entire area codes in California that are exempt from having to construct certain types of housing for the poor because they're marked as 'historical' or 'charter', etc., Unsurprisingly, the people who live there tend to be mega-rich and/or close friends of those with political power.

[Vergil]

I think the real question is, who was old enough on the FO2 dev team to have been alive as an adult to experience Quaylisms? Avellone would have been much too young.

This is the same logic as "internalized racism" that you see today. It's even worse for her to be a dirty evil fascist (who dares to not allow infinite immigration of random wasteland trash into her city) because she's black and should know better! The point is they very clearly did put politics in there. Chris Avellone and Fallout 2 are some of the worst examples of the sort of **** you see commonly now in an older game.

As for why Lynette's a *****... well, Lynette does have an extreme managerial, economic, and efficient soul, and she's used to getting her way. She wasn't abused, tortured, or twisted in any way when she was young, she just got a certain privileged and superiority complex hardwired into her head around five or six years old, and she's never been the same. She's always known that she was destined to lead the Vault 8 Citizens, and that power has gone to her head.

She's been the leader of Vault City for many, many years, and she's seen the worst that the wasteland has to offer - but rather than taking sympathy on the poor souls that have come to Vault City for protection, she has instead taken the view that these "outlanders" were simply not strong or smart enough to achieve what Vault City has, and thus, are inferior. She tends to work too much and too hard, and she sees all her time as precious, so she has little patience for socializing without a purpose (i.e., if it doesn't involve politicking, she's going to be working late at the office instead) or for people dropping in and wasting her time.

This is just a stereotype of rich kids who get given everything and tend to act much like she does.

When you put it this way she's starting to remind me of someone.

[Roguey]

I think the real question is, who was old enough on the FO2 dev team to have been alive as an adult to experience Quaylisms? Avellone would have been much too young.

I'm sure the Monica Lewinsky and Dan Quayle jokes on the Oil Rig were all him, though.

No. it was one of the lead designers. Those jokes sure have aged well (sarcasm), and it's even better that almost no one will recognize some of the references anymore because they are so outdated (which is why it's bad to even use modern refs even as jokes).

[rusty_shackleford]

I think the real question is, who was old enough on the FO2 dev team to have been alive as an adult to experience Quaylisms? Avellone would have been much too young.

I'm sure the Monica Lewinsky and Dan Quayle jokes on the Oil Rig were all him, though.

No. it was one of the lead designers. Those jokes sure have aged well (sarcasm), and it's even better that almost no one will recognize some of the references anymore because they are so outdated (which is why it's bad to even use modern refs even as jokes).

Heh, called it. Those jokes were a decade out of date when the game released, the guy who put them in must be pushing 60 now, if not older.

Honestly doesn't seem like something Feargus would do, so I guess it was Matthew J. Norton?

[Roguey]

onestly doesn't seem like something Feargus would do, so I guess it was Matthew J. Norton?

Yeah, here's his X account and his last repost is what you'd expect https://x.com/SoCalRover

[asf]

i fail to see the issue with not wanting ******* living anywhere near you

[rusty_shackleford]

i fail to see the issue with not wanting ******* living anywhere near you

because they're hypocrites who are happy with helping to fund ******* living near you, not them

[anonusername]

i fail to see the issue with not wanting ******* living anywhere near you

because they're hypocrites who are happy with helping to fund ******* living near you, not them

Not only happy, they will call you racist if you try to do anything about it.

[rusty_shackleford]

Rusty is right yet again

[Zothique]

Rusty is right yet again

The people that write the TV show are the new masters, coronated and spunked upon by Todd himself.

Hilarious that the resident bearfag shiteater is now being treated as some sort of evil mayonigger we can't listen to anymore because it's heckin 2024 and plots can evolve over time wheeeee.

As I've said a few times in other threads now, just needs nuked. Except there's apparently tons of genderqueers and other subhuman trash that just can't WAIT for some post-apoc scenario where they can buttfuck new and wonderous science experiments mutated by... stuff. And we would have destroyed le-heckin capitalism too! Sooper based!

**** YOU ALL

[Vergil]

Rusty is right yet again

I hate Tim Cainal's profile picture.

[Thor Kaufman]

tl;dr thread

It's a false dichotomy and only ******* could think that. Communism and Capitalism are just two sides of the same shekel. And, the endgoal of capitalism is communism.

[wndrbr]

Rusty is right yet again

I hate Tim Cainal's profile picture.

Tom of Finland energy with that peaked cap

[Roguey]

Emil the dimwit also entered the discussion, much to his regret (he deleted after commies got mad at him)

[J1M]

The Vault Experiments may be sort of over the top and silly, but adding (retconning them into) the canon made vaults one of my favorite elements of Fallout.

I hated that element, it turns human tragedy into goofy tinfoil hat bullshittery and it permanently scarred the franchise as a whole, allowing every mouthbreathing author out there to **** out a moronic "experiment" to justify all manner of stupidity.

In Fallout 1 the implication was that the vaults were failing due to human error, mismanagement, wartime shortages et al - it tells a far grimmer tale when Fallout 13 is in trouble because someone in the supply-chain ****** up and replacement chips didn't get delivered, or that Vault 12 failed because the vault door was faulty, or that people were forced to leave Vault 15 because of overcrowding.

Agreed, the same conditions can be created via accident or circumstance if there's an idea worth exploring (vault of all women, etc.) without undermining the entire setting.

[J1M]

Rusty is right yet again

Great example of why "death of the author" is a ******** concept and poorly named.

[Rand]

Because millennials have no original thoughts and are programmed by boomers.

[Rand]

The vaults as experiments is stupid and gay.
you want to say something about human nature, like war as one example? The vaults provide it.
They all start out with the best of intentions: saving American families from the war.
And then they go in the vaults, and humanity's nature takes over. They all pervert in different ways. Scarcity and stress bring out the worst in people.
Many, if not most fail after a generation or two. Each becoming deranged. The people in the vaults become the problems themselves. You don't need an outside agent like Vault-Tec or whoever.
I could go over all the opportunities for storytelling that come to mind after just 30 seconds, but I'm too lazy. The list, however, is potentially long and varied.
But no. We can't have nice things.

[Tweed]

Great example of why "death of the author" is a ******** concept and poorly named.

More recently the author usually rises from the grave to make sure his work can only be interpreted one way.

But in this case the author is murdered so that his work can be interpreted how the reader wants.

[Rand]

I hated that element, it turns human tragedy into goofy tinfoil hat bullshittery and it permanently scarred the franchise as a whole, allowing every mouthbreathing author out there to **** out a moronic "experiment" to justify all manner of stupidity.

In Fallout 1 the implication was that the vaults were failing due to human error, mismanagement, wartime shortages et al - it tells a far grimmer tale when Fallout 13 is in trouble because someone in the supply-chain ****** up and replacement chips didn't get delivered, or that Vault 12 failed because the vault door was faulty, or that people were forced to leave Vault 15 because of overcrowding.

The vault experiments were a patch on the fact that a vault could hold at most 500-1000 people and they said there were only 122 of them. 122,000 people at best (not even that) spread across America? That's the population of a small city. Dead civilization walking.

The vaults as originally envisioned held 10k or more.
Thy had to scale them back because it was either that or not allow players to enter them, or come up with a railroading system to not let them explore them.

[Rand]

Are you shure? To me his very authoritarian.

The Realpolitik analyses of the NCR and the Legion were outlined quite well by Marcus in New Vegas. But what are your ultimate thoughts on House?

He's a laissez-faire dictator. "Do whatever you want as long as you don't cross me." Mr. House doesn't care about other people and what they do as long as Vegas remains prosperous and he remains in control.

Perhaps Mr. House is 'dictatorial' to the extent that he won't permit anyone to breach his quasi-governmental monopoly on force, but otherwise I'm not sure what you mean by 'laissez-faire dictator,' which seems like one heck of an oxymoron.

He doesn't place many restrictions on people -- or on businesses -- but he always gets his cut, and when he does make a decree, it's absolute. New Vegas is a place where people have to feel like they can do whatever they want. Mr. House doesn't restrict sexual behavior, drug use, or most other types of personal behavior. The only people who really feel his direct presence are representatives of other governments, those who explicitly cross him, and the heads of the families who have to give him a share of his profits.

The dictator whose only laws are "Pay me my cut" and "Don't do **** that messes with my bottom line."

House uses the profits to improve Vegas at every opportunity.
He's not after the money as a scorecard. He wants to do things with it.

[maidenhaver]

And because he's a lich, he doesn't have a dynasty to expand. His aim is space:

[Stack of Turtles]

(vault of all women, etc.)

Seems pretty boring to explore a vault full of corpses with clawed-out eyes where all the food, water, and air has run out.

[J1M]

(vault of all women, etc.)

Seems pretty boring to explore a vault full of corpses with clawed-out eyes where all the food, water, and air has run out.

Interesting to the writer.

[RangerBoo]

Emil the dimwit also entered the discussion, much to his regret (he deleted after commies got mad at him)

Not just because of that but also because many people where pointing out that he and Graham Wagner rewrote the canon to the Fallout series being that rich billionaire capitalists started the Great War instead of China and he proceeded to block anybody who brought that up. It seems like the Fallout shows honeymoon is finally coming to an end with people now looking at it objectively like they do with all Bethesda products. It is like clockwork. What is funny to me was how Emil was so adamant about rewriting the canon to Fallout into his vison but the moment he gets scrutiny for it he proceeds to block people and create a safe space for himself. These really shows how poor of a writer he is.

[Roguey]

Not just because of that but also because many people where pointing out that he and Graham Wagner rewrote the canon to the Fallout series being that rich billionaire capitalists started the Great War instead of China and he proceeded to block anybody who brought that up.

I doubt Emil did much of anything for the show other than rubberstamp and nod along with whatever the show people said.

In Mothership Zeta, he presented evidence that the war was started by aliens. Man is a moron.