The Way of the Foolish Man

[Vergil]

Well noted hardcore right winger George Lucas.

[Vergil]

Korra vs. Aang?

Yea the show the mostly revolved around brown people and asians was super conservative especially the part where the bad guys were evil war mongering nazis.

SWtoR vs KotOR?

Do you think ******* Bioware writers (many of whom would go on to write for later bioware games) were conservative? The actual first gay character in all of Star Wars came from **KOTOR**. You legitimately just have no clue what it is you're talking about.

None of these people are "conservatives" at all. Having an ego and wanting to have sole domain over your creation has nothing to do with conservatism. Not to mention how many of these people openly support the fagging up of their respective properties (if not directly involved themselves).

I'm sorry you didn't get much in the way of serious responses. I was very disappointed to see how it developed.

It didn't get a serious response because it didn't warrant it. He cracked out the thesaurus to write a bunch of bloated nonsense full of filler and then got pissy with tard rage at the slightest ribbing only digging the hole further.
He has no point, most franchises people have fond memories of were made by libtards with plenty of libtard social views and programming in them. They were held back by the culture of the time. In most cases they aren't upset about what's been "done" to their creation, they're happy because they have always been ideologically in lockstep with it.

[madbringer]

@Odrackyir, I've honestly found your thoughts very interesting, but I haven't had the energy to give this thread the sort of post it deserves. I'm sorry you didn't get much in the way of serious responses. I was very disappointed to see how it developed.

Which would be why I said, all creators are conservatives, they're just bad at politics, and fail to glimpse what's going to become of their works and their world.

Yes, I think I agree with this. To create in a serious way, one must care about reality, because that's what creation is about: the making of a fictional reality. Caring about reality is a conservative thing. Leftists are all style and no substance. They don't care if their ideas clash and contradict each other. As long as it superficially appears to fulfill their idealistic desire, they're pleased. I think that's why creativity in media has died as leftism has come into full bloom.

[WhiteShark]

He has no point, most franchises people have fond memories of were made by libtards with plenty of libtard social views and programming in them. They were held back by the culture of the time. In most cases they aren't upset about what's been "done" to their creation, they're happy because they have always been ideologically in lockstep with it.

This matches my thesis, and I assume his, exactly: when they were inadvertently forced to conform more closely to reality (which is conservative) in their creations, they were better, and as they became free to indulge pure idealistic fancy without regard for how things really work, their creations became bad. They were only incidentally more conservative back in the day, but it's enough to prove the point that conservative―or perhaps it were proper to call them realist―views are vitally necessary to good fiction.

So, were they ideologically conservative? No, clearly not, but, on some level, their creations were a product of a lingering cultural conservatism that has largely vanished from so-called creatives, who, without it, aren't creative in the slightest. I doubt George Lucas is pleased with what Star Wars has become under the influence of current day politics, even if he can't (or won't) identify that as the reason for its fall.

[A Chinese opium den]

Well noted hardcore right winger George Lucas.

This but unironically.

[TKVNC]

It didn't get a serious response because it didn't warrant it. He cracked out the thesaurus to write a bunch of bloated nonsense full of filler and then got pissy with tard rage at the slightest ribbing only digging the hole further.
He has no point, most franchises people have fond memories of were made by libtards with plenty of libtard social views and programming in them. They were held back by the culture of the time. In most cases they aren't upset about what's been "done" to their creation, they're happy because they have always been ideologically in lockstep with it.

I'm late to the party; I think Conservatism does not lend itself to creativity - you're not creating anything new - when you're simply trying to keep something as it is. I'd argue none of the great designers, engineers, or anything were ever conservative - even Tolkien himself professes he is an 'anarchist' (that doesn't mean a blackblock incel) - I think, with this in mind, it's also quite clear in his work.

But regardless, the issue here has, in my mind, nothing to do with political leanings, and it's entirely more simple:

Americans cannot write compelling stories, or worlds.

Because they have no real history, and their culture is so 'current'; driven by trends for the purpose of profit. The American is not placed to create a world that is grounded, or real, only that is superficially appealing, and with any level of inspection its shallowness becomes quite apparent.

[Vergil]

[Irenaeus]

[Deleted]

[Deleted]

[Deleted]

[Lhynn]

[Deleted]

[Deleted]

[Deleted]

[Redacted]

[Brother Michael]

*******

[Vergil]

[Raped and Beheaded]

[rusty_shackleford]

Because they have no real history, and their culture is so 'current'; driven by trends for the purpose of profit. The American is not placed to create a world that is grounded, or real, only that is superficially appealing, and with any level of inspection its shallowness becomes quite apparent.

Pre-US history is just English history. Americans didn't spring out of the ground.

[Brother Michael]

Because they have no real history, and their culture is so 'current'; driven by trends for the purpose of profit. The American is not placed to create a world that is grounded, or real, only that is superficially appealing, and with any level of inspection its shallowness becomes quite apparent.

Pre-US history is just English history. Americans didn't spring out of the ground.

Dragon’s Teeth my *****

[gerey]

I'm late to the party; I think Conservatism does not lend itself to creativity - you're not creating anything new - when you're simply trying to keep something as it is.

I disagree - the building blocks of storytelling haven't really changed since cavemen began telling stories to each other hundreds of thousands of years ago. The narrative beats that resonate with the majority of the public are biologically hardwired into the human brain.

A whole era of sci-fi storytelling, the so-called Golden Age, had a very conservative bias to it - the (white) man is always the hero, the damsel is always in distress, and the alien is always the antagonist. What you refer to as "conservative" ideas in storytelling are basically what has, is and always will be popular with the vast majority of humans.

Leftists have been attempting to reinvent the wheel by "subverting expectations" for more than a century now, and they have failed time and again. The only way they can propagate their ideas is when they hide them within the structure and tropes of conservative storytelling.

One of the most influential storytellers of the whole 20th century is Lovecraft. Do you think someone like him would have his stories published in this day and age?

Do you think a non-subversive Warhammer 40k story about humanity killing disgusting xenos would do well? Would the sight of Space Marines decked in knightly heraldry, shouting their allegiance to their Emperor, as they rush into an unending tide of monsters resonate with the public?

The simple truth is that leftists do not offer the same kindness and tolerance as conservatives did to them, hence why we never get to see stories promoting "conservative" ideas being published.

Because they have no real history

My Anglo mockery aside, that's blatantly untrue. The USA has been around for longer than many nations today, and they clearly have a vast, rich and diverse history, even ignoring the cultural heritage the European migrants brought in with them when they arrived and cleansed the land of the vermin infesting it.

[Acrux]

I think it's funny this turned into a real discussion after that guy tried to delete his stuff and ran away.

[Vergil]

I think it's funny this turned into a real discussion after that guy tried to delete his stuff and ran away.

The adults are talking now that the ******** ****** has been removed from the premises.

[rusty_shackleford]

I think it's funny this turned into a real discussion after that guy tried to delete his stuff and ran away.

Would prefer if people didn't do this, bit annoying to go and roll back a bunch of posts.

[TKVNC]

I'm late to the party; I think Conservatism does not lend itself to creativity - you're not creating anything new - when you're simply trying to keep something as it is.

I disagree - the building blocks of storytelling haven't really changed since cavemen began telling stories to each other hundreds of thousands of years ago. The narrative beats that resonate with the majority of the public are biologically hardwired into the human brain.

A whole era of sci-fi storytelling, the so-called Golden Age, had a very conservative bias to it - the (white) man is always the hero, the damsel is always in distress, and the alien is always the antagonist. What you refer to as "conservative" ideas in storytelling are basically what has, is and always will be popular with the vast majority of humans.

Leftists have been attempting to reinvent the wheel by "subverting expectations" for more than a century now, and they have failed time and again. The only way they can propagate their ideas is when they hide them within the structure and tropes of conservative storytelling.

One of the most influential storytellers of the whole 20th century is Lovecraft. Do you think someone like him would have his stories published in this day and age?

Do you think a non-subversive Warhammer 40k story about humanity killing disgusting xenos would do well? Would the sight of Space Marines decked in knightly heraldry, shouting their allegiance to their Emperor, as they rush into an unending tide of monsters resonate with the public?

The simple truth is that leftists do not offer the same kindness and tolerance as conservatives did to them, hence why we never get to see stories promoting "conservative" ideas being published.

Because they have no real history

My Anglo mockery aside, that's blatantly untrue. The USA has been around for longer than many nations today, and they clearly have a vast, rich and diverse history, even ignoring the cultural heritage the European migrants brought in with them when they arrived and cleansed the land of the vermin infesting it.

The comment about America was mostly true, but also just a jab for the fun of it.

In regards to History, and I suppose Rusty said it too, America used to be English - so that's the basis of their stories - I think what I mean is that they don't necessarily have a 'deep' pool of American specific historical literature to pull from, and so they are prone to making **** up (unless you think American-Indian **** is relevant?). Whereas for most of the World there are certain cultural ties that people unknowingly have, even if they don't know they have them, since they weave their way through the culture. This isn't really a thing for America.

I guess you could argue that tropes (if that's the right word, maybe not) are inherently conservative - since they're unchanging 'element's of storybuilding - but at the same time, they're realistically devoid of political leaning in their own sense, political truth, and opinion are different to leaning though, at least I would argue that; if someone wants to inject their politics into a world, or maybe infuse is a better word, see Tolkien, it doesn't change the tropes, or their use, just how they're 'dressed'? Maybe that's not right, but it's close to what I mean.

Americans, and I suppose I mean specifically California, but there's something to be said for the whole nation - do not have a 'living' link to this culture, and so do not create stories in the same way, instead they take an outsiders superficial misunderstanding, and consider it gospel - look at George RR. Martin, for example. Just a shittier version of Tolkien.

[TKVNC]

I think it's funny this turned into a real discussion after that guy tried to delete his stuff and ran away.

Would prefer if people didn't do this, bit annoying to go and roll back a bunch of posts.

I steal topics like a ****** steals bikes.

[Irenaeus]

In regards to History, and I suppose Rusty said it too, America used to be English - so that's the basis of their stories - I think what I mean is that they don't necessarily have a 'deep' pool of American specific historical literature to pull from,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_literature

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folklore_ ... ted_States

Stop sounding like a ******

[TKVNC]

In regards to History, and I suppose Rusty said it too, America used to be English - so that's the basis of their stories - I think what I mean is that they don't necessarily have a 'deep' pool of American specific historical literature to pull from,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_literature

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folklore_ ... ted_States

Stop sounding like a ******

I guess you didn't really read any of what I said. Read again, American Indian stories don't matter.

[Kalarion]

In regards to History, and I suppose Rusty said it too, America used to be English - so that's the basis of their stories - I think what I mean is that they don't necessarily have a 'deep' pool of American specific historical literature to pull from,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_literature

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folklore_ ... ted_States

Stop sounding like a ******

I guess you didn't really read any of what I said. Read again, American Indian stories don't matter.

You're not paying attention. I somewhat sympathize in one sense, I too hate clicking Wikipedo links and skim them as fast as possible.

Ever heard of Daniel Boone? Davy Crockett? Lewis and Clark? Doc Holiday? Wyatt Earp? Butch Cassidy? Wild Bill Hickock? John Henry (yes, yes, I know, shut up)? Rip Van Winkle? Johnny Appleseed? Huckleberry Finn? Tom Sawyer?