The Elder Scrolls

[Vergil]

No. Are you gay? Yes.

I'm not much of a morning person but I'm decently full of mirth yea

[Hurtyy]

I know I already said this but I'm close to 100% skyrim and I have to say again: **** this game is bland and boring. I have no idea how this got to the top of any lists. It's basically a ubislop game. The quests and dialogue all suck and the gameplay is like eating boiled unseasoned chicken. Can I write a review in the review section @WhiteShark I want to rant about how bad this game is.

tes games are pretty front-loaded, and since Morrowind, they've worked around that by having a narrative break in the mq. In mw, you get promoted to opperative, oblivion you get sent ro find artefacts, and skyrim you look for dragon burials. The mq's are paper thin. Skyrim doean't have good guilds, though.

Only Morrowind has narrative breaks in the main quest. One of the most common criticisms of Oblivion and Skyrim is that it railroads you into the plot and then keeps a constant pace where you have to use cognitive dissonance to explain why your character fucks around picking mushrooms and flirting with argonian girls during the apocalypse

The only logical narrative break in Skyrim is when you are tasked by Farengar to go find the tablet on Bleak Falls Barrow. Since by then you have already alerted the Jarl to the dragon problem and that Riverwood needs extra security because of it but dragon attacks have not become a daily occurrence nor the end of the world nature of their return is known. As far as the PC knows at that point, the attack is an isolated incident by a surviving dragon

[Stack of Turtles]

The only logical narrative break in Skyrim is when you are tasked by Farengar to go find the tablet on Bleak Falls Barrow. Since by then you have already alerted the Jarl to the dragon problem and that Riverwood needs extra security because of it but dragon attacks have not become a daily occurrence nor the end of the world nature of their return is known. As far as the PC knows at that point, the attack is an isolated incident by a surviving dragon

That's stupid in its own right though. Dragons are semi-divine creatures who were barely heard of at that point in history. If an angel came down from heaven and smote Washington, DC with fire and brimstone, would you conclude this is just an isolated angel attack incident?

[Hurtyy]

The only logical narrative break in Skyrim is when you are tasked by Farengar to go find the tablet on Bleak Falls Barrow. Since by then you have already alerted the Jarl to the dragon problem and that Riverwood needs extra security because of it but dragon attacks have not become a daily occurrence nor the end of the world nature of their return is known. As far as the PC knows at that point, the attack is an isolated incident by a surviving dragon

That's stupid in its own right though. Dragons are semi-divine creatures who were barely heard of at that point in history. If an angel came down from heaven and smote Washington, DC with fire and brimstone, would you conclude this is just an isolated angel attack incident?

This idea of dragons being legends is itself a ******** retcon tho. As in Elder Scrolls Redguard the Emperor literally had a dragon under it's service and in Daggerfall you could find dragonlings.

Also if you go with Hadvar, he himself suggests that the Dragon might be under control of the Stormclocks and they somehow have gotten themselves a dragon for their rebellion. So it is not impossible the PC might believe that as well

[Vergil]

The issue still that
A: You have to say that you will go to bleak falls barrow and then either be a liar who never goes there or worse decided to take 4 years to go to the ruin and the entire dragon invasion has been waiting for you
B: If you want to do ANY quest (Civil War and Boethiah come to mind) that involves Bulgruuf you will be told to **** off until you start the MQ

[rusty_shackleford]

Daggerfall was meant to have dragons but it was cut. It was actually one of the advertised features of the game. It's why there's a Dragonish language skill but exactly one creature(dragonlings) that can speak it.

[Vergil]

Skyrim really does **** up the common perception of dragons in the setting. The big deal was never supposed to be that dragons were extinct and unseen but that there were randomly showing up en masse and destroying towns instead of being rare. Like someone mentioned Tiber Septim had a dragon general. No one should think that dragons existing is a myth.

[Brother Michael]

You are the Shezzarine, so the world literally does wait for you. Act like it.

[rusty_shackleford]

Daggerfall was meant to have dragons but it was cut. It was actually one of the advertised features of the game. It's why there's a Dragonish language skill but exactly one creature(dragonlings) that can speak it.

also forgot that you get a quest to go slay a recently hatched dragon, and it's definitely a dragon
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:The_Dragonslayer

[rusty_shackleford]

The issue still that
A: You have to say that you will go to bleak falls barrow and then either be a liar who never goes there or worse decided to take 4 years to go to the ruin and the entire dragon invasion has been waiting for you
B: If you want to do ANY quest (Civil War and Boethiah come to mind) that involves Bulgruuf you will be told to **** off until you start the MQ

nearly every RPG ever made fucks this up so it's not like skyrim is unique in this regard

[Vergil]

The issue still that
A: You have to say that you will go to bleak falls barrow and then either be a liar who never goes there or worse decided to take 4 years to go to the ruin and the entire dragon invasion has been waiting for you
B: If you want to do ANY quest (Civil War and Boethiah come to mind) that involves Bulgruuf you will be told to **** off until you start the MQ

nearly every RPG ever made fucks this up so it's not like skyrim is unique in this regard

Games like Fallout and Daggerfall having time limits mitigate this issue heavily though.

[rusty_shackleford]

The issue still that
A: You have to say that you will go to bleak falls barrow and then either be a liar who never goes there or worse decided to take 4 years to go to the ruin and the entire dragon invasion has been waiting for you
B: If you want to do ANY quest (Civil War and Boethiah come to mind) that involves Bulgruuf you will be told to **** off until you start the MQ

nearly every RPG ever made fucks this up so it's not like skyrim is unique in this regard

Games like Fallout and Daggerfall having time limits mitigate this issue heavily though.

People whined endlessly about time limits "abloo bloo bloo why can't I go do random side quests without repercussions????" so we don't get them anymore. Even Fallout had most of its time limits removed in patches.

[Vergil]

nearly every RPG ever made fucks this up so it's not like skyrim is unique in this regard

Games like Fallout and Daggerfall having time limits mitigate this issue heavily though.

People whined endlessly about time limits "abloo bloo bloo why can't I go do random side quests without repercussions????" so we don't get them anymore. Even Fallout had most of its time limits removed in patches.

Which is very funny considering things like consequence free instant fast travel have made them even easier to deal with.

[rusty_shackleford]

Only RPG I can think of that actually cared about time is Pathfinder: Kingmaker, btw. Nearly all the quests are timed, entire mainquest is based on time. You do adventuring/side-quests in-between major activities.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Timed events are fun. They give the game a sense of tension "oh my gosh I'm not going to make it", even if the timers are balanced so that you can actually do anything with time to spare anyway.

[rusty_shackleford]

Timed events are fun. They give the game a sense of tension "oh my gosh I'm not going to make it", even if the timers are balanced so that you can actually do anything with time to spare anyway.

Even if the timers aren't strict, it also makes you actually plan your adventure out.

[maidenhaver]

Only RPG I can think of that actually cared about time is Pathfinder: Kingmaker, btw. Nearly all the quests are timed, entire mainquest is based on time. You do adventuring/side-quests in-between major activities.

Can we go so far to say a true rpg needs a a timed campaign, or its just an action game with extra steps?

[Oyster Sauce]

There are dragons in Morrowind if you fly high enough. The ones near the ground use invisibility spells.

[Vergil]

There are dragons in Morrowind if you fly high enough. The ones near the ground use invisibility spells.

You have to keep swimming north until you find the secret grove of Akatosh where there are some dragons being hidden there

[Hurtyy]

The issue still that
A: You have to say that you will go to bleak falls barrow and then either be a liar who never goes there or worse decided to take 4 years to go to the ruin and the entire dragon invasion has been waiting for you
B: If you want to do ANY quest (Civil War and Boethiah come to mind) that involves Bulgruuf you will be told to **** off until you start the MQ

The civil war is a massive bore and disappoinment so I don't see the problem there unless you like the changes the civil war brings to the holds.

Daggerfall was meant to have dragons but it was cut. It was actually one of the advertised features of the game. It's why there's a Dragonish language skill but exactly one creature(dragonlings) that can speak it.

Do you know how they were supposed to be implemented in Daggerfall before being cut?

Skyrim really does **** up the common perception of dragons in the setting. The big deal was never supposed to be that dragons were extinct and unseen but that there were randomly showing up en masse and destroying towns instead of being rare. Like someone mentioned Tiber Septim had a dragon general. No one should think that dragons existing is a myth.

Yep, pretty much. People should know dragons are real but think they are extremely rare if not extinct

[rusty_shackleford]

Do you know how they were supposed to be implemented in Daggerfall before being cut?

Nope, but there is a dragon still in the files that's not part of the game. He has a portrait. He was meant to have an actual 3D model, not just a sprite, but the model is not part of the game. The texture for his portrait & the texture for his model are present.
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Skakmat
https://tcrf.net/The_Elder_Scrolls_II:_ ... ll#Skakmat

[edit]
https://en.uesp.net/wiki/General:Mark_Jones_Interview

MJ: O yeah! To be honest, most of the work an artist does never makes the light of day. It's either improved and altered or just abandoned. Perhaps the most frustrating one that never saw the final game was the dragon in Daggerfall. 3D dragon. Built, textured and animated. Never got in. Month's work...Pop! gone Nice to see that dragons are back in Skyrim though!

[edit2]
https://www.imperial-library.info/conte ... erson-2019

Yeah, Skakmat was also going to be your “in” with Nulfaga. You befriend him and he shows you the way to Shedungent, her home.

[Vergil]

The issue still that
A: You have to say that you will go to bleak falls barrow and then either be a liar who never goes there or worse decided to take 4 years to go to the ruin and the entire dragon invasion has been waiting for you
B: If you want to do ANY quest (Civil War and Boethiah come to mind) that involves Bulgruuf you will be told to **** off until you start the MQ

The civil war is a massive bore and disappoinment so I don't see the problem there unless you like the changes the civil war brings to the holds.

Daggerfall was meant to have dragons but it was cut. It was actually one of the advertised features of the game. It's why there's a Dragonish language skill but exactly one creature(dragonlings) that can speak it.

Do you know how they were supposed to be implemented in Daggerfall before being cut?

Skyrim really does **** up the common perception of dragons in the setting. The big deal was never supposed to be that dragons were extinct and unseen but that there were randomly showing up en masse and destroying towns instead of being rare. Like someone mentioned Tiber Septim had a dragon general. No one should think that dragons existing is a myth.

Yep, pretty much. People should know dragons are real but think they are extremely rare if not extinct

The civil war being a neutered bore doesn't excuse having the issue of needing to be dragonborn to do it without mods.

[Zothique]

I've never once played a Khajiit because only homos like them, true story yall.

[Rand]

nearly every RPG ever made fucks this up so it's not like skyrim is unique in this regard

Games like Fallout and Daggerfall having time limits mitigate this issue heavily though.

People whined endlessly about time limits "abloo bloo bloo why can't I go do random side quests without repercussions????" so we don't get them anymore. Even Fallout had most of its time limits removed in patches.

Most of the time limits were broken in the original release build anyway.

[maidenhaver]

Only RPG I can think of that actually cared about time is Pathfinder: Kingmaker, btw. Nearly all the quests are timed, entire mainquest is based on time. You do adventuring/side-quests in-between major activities.

Can we go so far to say a true rpg needs a a timed campaign, or its just an action game with extra steps?

I am going to add this to the definition of RPG. A crpg needs a time limit and a party to be a RPG. An arpg needs a timer, but not a party.

[Oyster Sauce]

Imagine talking about gay wheels and spokes when you could discuss the gorilla people who want to be elves

We're so back

[Manny V]

Imagine talking about gay wheels and spokes when you could discuss the gorilla people who want to be elves

We're so back

wow redguards lookin kinda different

[asf]

hm yes, i don't remember them so well dressed

[Vergil]

[Vergil]