Brain/talent drain in game devs, how to stop it?

[Marcus]

And these figures make sense to you?

Given the development costs of MMOs like WoW and FF14 (had 400+ devs last I checked) and how Genshin operates somewhat similarly being an ongoing high fantasy game with new content being released, it doesn't seem that farfetched. 300 million over 6 years, so on average about 50 million per year, though obviously it was probably lower when development began in 2017 with 100 people and then ramped up after the base game's success in 2020, and by 2021 they had 700 people working on the game. It's an international release with localization and voice acting and distribution in multiple languages and territories, probably hired lawyers or consulting firms in multiple different countries to understand the local laws. There are probably some other unforeseen costs.

What about the 300 million USD for the marketing, though? Isn't that completely insane?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

And these figures make sense to you?

Given the development costs of MMOs like WoW and FF14 (had 400+ devs last I checked) and how Genshin operates somewhat similarly being an ongoing high fantasy game with new content being released, it doesn't seem that farfetched. 300 million over 6 years, so on average about 50 million per year, though obviously it was probably lower when development began in 2017 with 100 people and then ramped up after the base game's success in 2020, and by 2021 they had 700 people working on the game. It's an international release with localization and voice acting and distribution in multiple languages and territories, probably hired lawyers or consulting firms in multiple different countries to understand the local laws. There are probably some other unforeseen costs.

What about the 300 million USD for the marketing, though? Isn't that completely insane?

300 million over 3 years since the base game's launch in 2020, on average about 100 million per year. Doesn't sound insane to me. User acquisition is very expensive today, doesn't matter if you're spending on Amazon or Facebook ads to advertise your selfpublished novel or if you are a Hollywood movie trying to gets lots of people in seats to make up for your hundred million dollar budget. The era of the blockbuster is over. The news-media infrastructure required to channel everyone's attention into one thing like Star Wars or Harry Potter doesn't exist anymore. The internet happened and everyone spun off into their own microniches, which makes it very hard and expensive to grab lots of people's attention.

If you're going to make an expensive game, then you're going to need a lot of people buying the game to make up for the costs. To get lots of people to buy your game, they have to know that it exists. Which means a large marketing campaign, and a large marketing campaign today costs lots of money. So expensive games also have expensive marketing campaigns. That's the way it is. If you don't want an expensive marketing campaign, then you need to have a business strategy around keeping the cost of your game low and just sell to your small dedicated fanbase who don't need to be informed that your game exists or convinced to buy it like what Nihon Falcom does.

[Acrux]

And these figures make sense to you?

Given the development costs of MMOs like WoW and FF14 (had 400+ devs last I checked) and how Genshin operates somewhat similarly being an ongoing high fantasy game with new content being released, it doesn't seem that farfetched. 300 million over 6 years, so on average about 50 million per year, though obviously it was probably lower when development began in 2017 with 100 people and then ramped up after the base game's success in 2020, and by 2021 they had 700 people working on the game. It's an international release with localization and voice acting and distribution in multiple languages and territories, probably hired lawyers or consulting firms in multiple different countries to understand the local laws. There are probably some other unforeseen costs.

What about the 300 million USD for the marketing, though? Isn't that completely insane?

It's pretty standard for any product's marketing budget to be about half of the total development costs, so it sounds right in line with most things anymore.

[maidenhaver]

I don't want to stop the brain drain. I want to see it all burn.

[UltraFan123]

I also reckon that the current game devs would likewise rather see the industry burn down than allow "chuds" to take over it. lol

[Orvas Dren]

I'm not sure you know how money works. I guess that makes sense if you grew up in Soviet Yugoslavia.
You can't pay a dev team out of the $30 million your game might make until after you have that money. You could give them equity, which is how it used to work and is now a broken system, or you could accept capital from an investor who will expect you to show how inclusive your game is, if you can even find any investors anymore. Either way, you won't even attract talent when there isn't talent to attract.

For those of you who don't know 30 million is more than enough to keep a small team together in the same place, and these are games with often shoestring budgets. The initial capital required is not 30 ******* million lol. The barrier to entry in gaming is lower than ever, learning gamedev and making games is more accessible than ever, and a competitive rate right now is actually lower than it was a couple years ago thanks to how tech is doing.

It is absurd to think that the gaming market size is to small to sustain plenty of decent gamedevs. Even if x y and z gacha games have a majority share, the market is still absurdly massive and growing. Just because you are a blackpilled ****** who would rather whine all day doesn't mean that there is nothing that can be done or being done. If you honestly think things are so screwed just go ahead and ack and save everyone the trouble.

Low barrier to entry = less capable people can clear the barrier.

that's not how it works at all since said people are seldom the ones getting hired to work at big companies, they are just making their own games and mods. Doom wads and derivative games are a good example of this. Lower barrier of entry just means someone with the will and passion to learn can without having to lay down absurd amounts of money or go to school for it

[Marcus]

300 million over 3 years since the base game's launch in 2020, on average about 100 million per year. Doesn't sound insane to me...

It's pretty standard for any product's marketing budget to be about half of the total development costs, so it sounds right in line with most things anymore.

Alright, alright. I yield. 600 million USD is clearly a perfectly fine sum to spend on the development of a video game. I hope more developers will do the same in the future. You go, money burning developers!

[J1M]

If we extrapolate like a climate scientist: the data points of solo developers creating games equivalent to early console titles and now boomer shooters implies that eventually tooling will support someone building their own Deus Ex.

[bloodedhunter]

The 3D and higher production values made it more attractive to Western gamers who were conditioned by the media to reject 2D games.

I would disagree on that. I would say it was the militant scam operations that flooded the market with ****** 2D asset flips over the last decade that soured public opinion on 2D games.

[Unhelpful Contrarian]

I would disagree on that. I would say it was the militant scam operations that flooded the market with ****** 2D asset flips over the last decade that soured public opinion on 2D games.

Very true. Used to really like it back in the mid 2010’s back when the indie gaming market started to hit it big. But now feels like it’s a crouch in making cheaper games that have low budgets rather then a deliberate artistic design.

[Big Red Dog]

you cant drain an empty tub

[maidenhaver]

you cant drain an empty tub

You can drain deez nuts.

[Big Red Dog]

you cant drain an empty tub

You can drain deez nuts.

thats gay, you just asked another man to drain your nuts, thats gay