The Way of the Foolish Man

[Odrackyir]

I'm trying to understand how excellence translates from the mind and into a work such as these we busy ourselves with here.

You see, I believe that there's something called taste, and that there's something else, more universal. The way few people would put the quality of LOTR into question, as opposed to Harry Potter.

These sorts of interactive endeavors require that the genuine mind will concern itself with technical and not just the narrative. Which leads to the notion that there's such thing as an excellence of the means, an excellence of the systems. And that might mean, an excellence of the choices in the realm of transmission, of realization.

In games, excellence is not a fragance whose owner is left to the mind of the user to envision, as is the case with literature. It is instead a building, presented to him with all its scaffolding. Our kingdom is both the theater and the work.

I've been led to believe that the modern product was the end of the road in terms of creativity. Not because something better couldn't exist, but because it's been many years since anything real came out. Probably in the form Dark Souls. RiME, which isn't an RPG, comes to mind. Surely there're others, like Kenshi. But, where's there something large and ambitious in the realm of the means?

My mind wanders and tells me that the last point where plot, ambition and freedom intersected - not because perfection was reached, but because an honest, heartfelt attempt was made - however flawed - at combining these three, and then pushing somehow was NWN2. I can almost feel your indignation, but stay with me. I'll insist: this writing is not a circumloquium where I attempt to inflate this product's worth.

DA:O would probably be an easier, a more aesthetic candidate. And yet, for many reasons it isn't. It sports no creation tools, to name one Apparently it does, first news. But still, I've never seen anything done with them. Also, it might be the first multinational corporation all hands incursion in this specific genre, after KotOR II, which feels still like a homebrew. I'm no expert, so do correct me. It's the first which feels like a Hollywood production, like a luxury can of something good.

NWN2 creates the tools, and then it attempts to create something excellent out of it. And the result is mixed, but there's something behind all that weirdness. It's like a trapped creature that's saying, I'm here to allow you to be free. Free to express what the truth is.

What say you?

[Vergil]

What say you?

S'cool

[Odrackyir]

What say you?

S'cool

There's no way you read that so fast.

[Brother Chad]

Don't worry bro, everyone says my vampire game will save the entire industry.

[rusty_shackleford]

DA:O would probably be an easier, a more aesthetic candidate. And yet, for many reasons it isn't. It sports no creation tools, to name one

It does, btw.

I recall it needing mysql just to run and I couldn't get it working tho. Bad decision on their part to not make it as simple as the nwn editor since it was based on it…

[aweigh]

Odrackyir is a GGS alt btw

[Shillitron]

Odrackyir is a GGS alt btw

@LemonDemonGirl too

[Vergil]

Don't worry bro, everyone says my vampire game will save the entire industry.

What game?

[Odrackyir]

Odrackyir is a GGS alt btw

I'm highly suspicious I'm going to regret this, but do speak out your line of thought. I'd ask you first define what GGS is.

[Brother Chad]

Don't worry bro, everyone says my vampire game will save the entire industry.

What game?

[rusty_shackleford]

What say you?

Two of the better games I've played in the past few years have been 'mods' made for older games. I think they cover a lot of what you're discussing. They definitely have a different feel than games made by professionals, or even most indies who seem to actually hate games. They're just the result of the passion of a few dedicated fans who wanted to take what was and make something better.

[Vergil]

What say you?

Two of the better games I've played in the past few years have been 'mods' made for older games. I think they cover a lot of what you're discussing. They definitely have a different feel than games made by professionals, or even most indies who seem to actually hate games. They're just the result of the passion of a few dedicated fans who wanted to take what was and make something better.

Does Enderal have companions?

[rusty_shackleford]

What say you?

Two of the better games I've played in the past few years have been 'mods' made for older games. I think they cover a lot of what you're discussing. They definitely have a different feel than games made by professionals, or even most indies who seem to actually hate games. They're just the result of the passion of a few dedicated fans who wanted to take what was and make something better.

Does Enderal have companions?

Ehh, sorta. There's two 'companions' but they only accompany you on some quests.

[Nooneatall]

Cool autism post. Why write many word when write few word better? Beautiful good, ugly bad

[Jordy]

Cool autism post. Why write many word when write few word better? Beautiful good, ugly bad

What is brevity?

[Vergil]

Here's ChatGPT's attempt

"I'm exploring how excellence transfers from the mind to the work we create.

LOTR's quality is rarely questioned, unlike Harry Potter's. In games, excellence involves not just narrative, but also technical execution and design choices.

While literature's quality is subjective, in games, it's more tangible, like a visible structure. Creativity in modern games seems stagnant, with few exceptions like Dark Souls. Where are the ambitious projects?

NWN2 was the last time plot, ambition, and freedom truly intersected. Though flawed, it made a genuine attempt. DA lacks the creative freedom NWN2 offers. Despite its imperfections, NWN2 feels like it's striving to let us express something true.

Thoughts?"

[Odrackyir]

Cool autism post. Why write many word when write few word better? Beautiful good, ugly bad

No, you got it all wrong. It's Good beautiful, bad ugly.

[Hauberk]

I'd ask you first define what GGS is.

Some guy on a zero-turn lawn mower. Now do me.

[maidenhaver]

@rusty_shackleford what's the point in all these alts, if we know its you?

[Odrackyir]

DA:O would probably be an easier, a more aesthetic candidate. And yet, for many reasons it isn't. It sports no creation tools, to name one

It does, btw.

I recall it needing mysql just to run and I couldn't get it working tho. Bad decision on their part to not make it as simple as the nwn editor since it was based on it…

Is DAO technically a better game than NWN2? It's certainly more restrictive in terms of non-aesthetic character customization. The scope in the Role elements is narrower, am I right?

[swolenigga]

I'm highly suspicious I'm going to regret this, but do speak out your line of thought. I'd ask you first define what GGS is.

A great guy who's really cool and hangs out with the hottest goth girls, wears the freshest clothes and knows the best restaurants. Very sophisticated and rumor has it his **** is huge. But alas these are mere rumors.

[Acrux]

Don't worry bro, everyone says my vampire game will save the entire industry.

What game?

When did this become first person???

[aweigh]

I just wanted to say that I too love NWN2. Great game!

<3 Neeshka

[Oyster Sauce]

Odrackyir is a GGS alt btw

I'm highly suspicious I'm going to regret this, but do speak out your line of thought. I'd ask you first define what GGS is.

Ok nevermind he's a Norfleet alt

[Brother Chad]

When did this become first person???

Engine change. Combat will still be overhead camera and a turn-based affair. Here's a pre alpha screengrab.

[Silvanus]

I don't think the medium has been exhausted of creative potential. It's just that many of the modern contributors to it have aggressively bad taste - both indies and AAA for different reasons, although neither seems to actually like RPGs or games more broadly. Technical execution is something most people can figure out with enough practice determination. Ideas and good taste are the rare part.

[Kalarion]

Don't worry bro, everyone says my vampire game will save the entire industry.

What game?

Tyranicon?!

[Lhynn]

The west is in a pit of cultural stagnation. The culture war is real and its everywhere, the conservative side cant create new things, the communist side can only create pre approved slop. Whatever falls in the middle has been ignored for far too long.

These days I find it best to just look to the east, stuff thats coming from Korea and China is pretty great.

Troubleshooter, The book of dragons, Tale of immortal, Heroes Adventure, The matchless kung fu.

[J1M]

I'm trying to understand how excellence translates from the mind and into a work such as these we busy ourselves with here.

You see, I believe that there's something called taste, and that there's something else, more universal. The way few people would put the quality of LOTR into question, as opposed to Harry Potter.

These sorts of interactive endeavors require that the genuine mind will concern itself with technical and not just the narrative. Which leads to the notion that there's such thing as an excellence of the means, an excellence of the systems. And that might mean, an excellence of the choices in the realm of transmission, of realization.

In games, excellence is not a fragance whose owner is left to the mind of the user to envision, as is the case with literature. It is instead a building, presented to him with all its scaffolding. Our kingdom is both the theater and the work.

I've been led to believe that the modern product was the end of the road in terms of creativity. Not because something better couldn't exist, but because it's been many years since anything real came out. Probably in the form Dark Souls. RiME, which isn't an RPG, comes to mind. Surely there're others, like Kenshi. But, where's there something large and ambitious in the realm of the means?

My mind wanders and tells me that the last point where plot, ambition and freedom intersected - not because perfection was reached, but because an honest, heartfelt attempt was made - however flawed - at combining these three, and then pushing somehow was NWN2. I can almost feel your indignation, but stay with me. I'll insist: this writing is not a circumloquium where I attempt to inflate this product's worth.

DA:O would probably be an easier, a more aesthetic candidate. And yet, for many reasons it isn't. It sports no creation tools, to name one Apparently it does, first news. But still, I've never seen anything done with them. Also, it might be the first multinational corporation all hands incursion in this specific genre, after KotOR II, which feels still like a homebrew. I'm no expert, so do correct me. It's the first which feels like a Hollywood production, like a luxury can of something good.

NWN2 creates the tools, and then it attempts to create something excellent out of it. And the result is mixed, but there's something behind all that weirdness. It's like a trapped creature that's saying, I'm here to allow you to be free. Free to express what the truth is.

What say you?

Cool post, a shame what happened to the thread.

[Odrackyir]

I'm trying to understand how excellence translates from the mind and into a work such as these we busy ourselves with here.

You see, I believe that there's something called taste, and that there's something else, more universal. The way few people would put the quality of LOTR into question, as opposed to Harry Potter.

These sorts of interactive endeavors require that the genuine mind will concern itself with technical and not just the narrative. Which leads to the notion that there's such thing as an excellence of the means, an excellence of the systems. And that might mean, an excellence of the choices in the realm of transmission, of realization.

In games, excellence is not a fragance whose owner is left to the mind of the user to envision, as is the case with literature. It is instead a building, presented to him with all its scaffolding. Our kingdom is both the theater and the work.

I've been led to believe that the modern product was the end of the road in terms of creativity. Not because something better couldn't exist, but because it's been many years since anything real came out. Probably in the form Dark Souls. RiME, which isn't an RPG, comes to mind. Surely there're others, like Kenshi. But, where's there something large and ambitious in the realm of the means?

My mind wanders and tells me that the last point where plot, ambition and freedom intersected - not because perfection was reached, but because an honest, heartfelt attempt was made - however flawed - at combining these three, and then pushing somehow was NWN2. I can almost feel your indignation, but stay with me. I'll insist: this writing is not a circumloquium where I attempt to inflate this product's worth.

DA:O would probably be an easier, a more aesthetic candidate. And yet, for many reasons it isn't. It sports no creation tools, to name one Apparently it does, first news. But still, I've never seen anything done with them. Also, it might be the first multinational corporation all hands incursion in this specific genre, after KotOR II, which feels still like a homebrew. I'm no expert, so do correct me. It's the first which feels like a Hollywood production, like a luxury can of something good.

NWN2 creates the tools, and then it attempts to create something excellent out of it. And the result is mixed, but there's something behind all that weirdness. It's like a trapped creature that's saying, I'm here to allow you to be free. Free to express what the truth is.

What say you?

Cool post, a shame what happened to the thread.

Well, I'm here. You see, I'm in a limbo of sorts when it comes to interactive video experiences. I won't use the commercial word we've adscribed to the product, because they're not games to me. They're more like simulations. The way I see it, we've to an extent internalized the caricaturization of it. Had the term not yet been invented, only a moronic observer would've defined, say KotOR, say any real RPG, as a game. It's not a fun passtime one just indulges in. It's half a step beyond that. Somewhere between a game, a simulation and maybe a dream. Not just a game. But I'm digressing in my oniric pedantry here. However it's important to mention this, and I'll continue after I'm done with my first line of dissertation.

I was saying, I'm in a limbo. I don't peruse the forum so much, because I don't know what games/simulations/products actually are. I do not know if this is a legitimate medium. Books are almost unmeasurably superior. Books don't need us, you read something that's good enough and you'll know. It's whipping its **** at your face. It lives at the other side of a worm hole. These products comparatively, were it not for the diminutive divine spark they contain, would be akin to a handicapped younger brother to literary works. I don't know whether I can commit to creating in this medium. I don't know whether video interacting, or ''playing'' is a legitimate thing to do with one's valuable time. What would I be learning by playing things like Deponia, or IDK Elden Ring? It's all predetermined! And that's the dilemma for me. Who doesn't want to instead commit to doing something that's unique, rare, meaningful, unprecedented, real, with his own time? But to play is to have your own unique experience, you say. No. When your ambition is real, and your reaching for the unknown is too, then to do something like commiting to killing that naked redhead lady in Elden Ring, that's not real. That's feces. That's the system culling you. Why create for a group of people of which 80% could not sink their souls to the deepest extent, where they'd see something that's not merely ''Oh yeah I love that game! Yeah, that's a cool game.''

Then you find some products, and you use them, and it's worth it. The Vanishing of Ethan Carter. And it's like good literature somehow. Like you don't need to write 100 pages to build something that can transmit that spark. And yet there's so much ******** surrounding ''videogames'', you want to drip your toes and that's about it.

Dreams. That's what we need to consider them as. That's what's important in the name. One day these experiences will be like what they describe in those futuristic comics of the 60s-70s-80s, and we'll be ******. But, I digress once more.