Various role-playing RPG game stuff not deserving its own thread

[rusty_shackleford]

Rather dislike when games ask you to create a character and allocate attributes, but you have no idea which attributes are optimal for your character. There will be an attribute like 'might' which makes you do more damage but wait there's also 'speed' which makes you attack faster and 'agility' which increases your critical.
Yeah, it sounds decent on paper, but idk. Obviously anyone who has played RPGs before is going to look at it and try to min-max it anyways, so what's the point? It's not like you found an item with those attributes and each is its own bonus, you're directly trading them for each other in point allocation. At best, you pick optimally. At worst, you mess your character up and get to either reroll or respec depending on the game. What's the point?

This is especially true whenever point allocation is 'flat', no increasing cost. With increasing cost as least you have a reason to spread your points around.

Better when it shows you a real-time calculation of how the stat changes affect the different types of damage you can do.

This just makes the problem all the more evident: pick the one that makes number go up the biggerest.

[Magick]

Rather dislike when games ask you to create a character and allocate attributes, but you have no idea which attributes are optimal for your character. There will be an attribute like 'might' which makes you do more damage but wait there's also 'speed' which makes you attack faster and 'agility' which increases your critical.
Yeah, it sounds decent on paper, but idk. Obviously anyone who has played RPGs before is going to look at it and try to min-max it anyways, so what's the point? It's not like you found an item with those attributes and each is its own bonus, you're directly trading them for each other in point allocation. At best, you pick optimally. At worst, you mess your character up and get to either reroll or respec depending on the game. What's the point?

This is especially true whenever point allocation is 'flat', no increasing cost. With increasing cost as least you have a reason to spread your points around.

Better when it shows you a real-time calculation of how the stat changes affect the different types of damage you can do.

This just makes the problem all the more evident: pick the one that makes number go up the biggerest.

Well yeah, better having the information than not and just guessing, especially if not self evident.
And that still leaves RP'ing a ****** as an option.

[rusty_shackleford]

Better when it shows you a real-time calculation of how the stat changes affect the different types of damage you can do.

This just makes the problem all the more evident: pick the one that makes number go up the biggerest.

Well yeah, better having the information than not and just guessing, especially if not self evident.
And that still leaves RP'ing a ****** as an option.

I defer back to my comment on 'archetypes'. In fact, I think I'm going to shoot a message to a famous (tabletop) RPG designer and see what his opinion on this is.

[WhiteShark]

I think customization has merits, but rarely in CRPGs. It takes the flexibility of tabletop to really make different approaches shine. 99% of cRPGs are going to come down to combat, which renders customization somewhat pointless.

[rusty_shackleford]

I think customization has merits, but rarely in CRPGs. It takes the flexibility of tabletop to really make different approaches shine. 99% of cRPGs are going to come down to combat, which renders customization somewhat pointless.

The problem is that combat is just reduced to "I kill thing faster". For example, it's almost a universal rule for any turn-based game with AP that increasing your available AP each turn is the most optimal choice.

[Brother Michael]

Rather dislike when games ask you to create a character and allocate attributes, but you have no idea which attributes are optimal for your character. There will be an attribute like 'might' which makes you do more damage but wait there's also 'speed' which makes you attack faster and 'agility' which increases your critical.
Yeah, it sounds decent on paper, but idk. Obviously anyone who has played RPGs before is going to look at it and try to min-max it anyways, so what's the point? It's not like you found an item with those attributes and each is its own bonus, you're directly trading them for each other in point allocation. At best, you pick optimally. At worst, you mess your character up and get to either reroll or respec depending on the game. What's the point?

This is especially true whenever point allocation is 'flat', no increasing cost. With increasing cost as least you have a reason to spread your points around.

Better when it shows you a real-time calculation of how the stat changes affect the different types of damage you can do.

This just makes the problem all the more evident: pick the one that makes number go up the biggerest.

That’s quite reductive. Attacking with a strength based weapon and an intelligence based spell is rarely the same experience. Stats are just the first layer of the system.

[Magick]

This just makes the problem all the more evident: pick the one that makes number go up the biggerest.

Well yeah, better having the information than not and just guessing, especially if not self evident.
And that still leaves RP'ing a ****** as an option.

I defer back to my comment on 'archetypes'. In fact, I think I'm going to shoot a message to a famous (tabletop) RPG designer and see what his opinion on this is.

This is why I'm not all too bothered about games that let you individually customise stats. Half of the time it's just basic stuff and not anything interesting like "talents" or "skills.
I'm happy enough with just different, sensible set stats per class.

What I find more interesting is skills / playstyles / damage types. I used to love that in WoW I mainly used (at my choice) mostly fire spells and talents, with some arcane as backup to enhance that firepower.
Most of my gear was then FIRE damage based. So "number go up" in that stat (fire damage), but was a bit **** in other areas.
Then they had the idea to just merge all the damage types and made it boring.

Same with D&D and games that let you individually pick the stats, is someone's 14 str 10 dex (random numbers), significantly different to someone else's 12 str 12 dex? Not that much.. Like ya said, most people are just going to cookie cutter so what's the point.
Things like damage types, armour classes, skills, carrying capacity etc. being affected by the different thresholds are much more important, and those could easily just be "talents" rather than specific numbers.

I've never been one to randomise though, maybe some people like that? And I know some people pick ****** stats for the challenge / RP, so it has it's merits there.

[Rand]

Rather dislike when games ask you to create a character and allocate attributes, but you have no idea which attributes are optimal for your character. There will be an attribute like 'might' which makes you do more damage but wait there's also 'speed' which makes you attack faster and 'agility' which increases your critical.
Yeah, it sounds decent on paper, but idk. Obviously anyone who has played RPGs before is going to look at it and try to min-max it anyways, so what's the point? It's not like you found an item with those attributes and each is its own bonus, you're directly trading them for each other in point allocation. At best, you pick optimally. At worst, you mess your character up and get to either reroll or respec depending on the game. What's the point?

This is especially true whenever point allocation is 'flat', no increasing cost. With increasing cost as least you have a reason to spread your points around.

Better when it shows you a real-time calculation of how the stat changes affect the different types of damage you can do.

This just makes the problem all the more evident: pick the one that makes number go up the biggerest.

Remember, this is based on a system where you once had to roll your attributes on 3d6, then determine what classes you could be.
It's all *** backwards now, so of course it doesn't work well.

[rusty_shackleford]

Better when it shows you a real-time calculation of how the stat changes affect the different types of damage you can do.

This just makes the problem all the more evident: pick the one that makes number go up the biggerest.

That’s quite reductive. Attacking with a strength based weapon and an intelligence based spell is rarely the same experience. Stats are just the first layer of the system.

It's not reductive if it's an illusion of choice. If the stat that makes you attack faster and the stat that makes you do more damage are equal, then it's the same. If the stat that makes you attack faster becomes more valuable the stronger you hit, then it's just doing math.
OTOH, if the stat that makes you attack faster also increases your rate of interrupting enemies(either explicitly or implicitly) and the stat that makes you attack harder also increases your resistance or gives you more HP, there's possibly a real tradeoff happening to some degree.

---

For the keen-eyed, the latter part is Pillars of Eternity. Sawyer is great at finding issues, but not very good at fixing them, often going too far in a different direction.

[Brother Michael]

This just makes the problem all the more evident: pick the one that makes number go up the biggerest.

That’s quite reductive. Attacking with a strength based weapon and an intelligence based spell is rarely the same experience. Stats are just the first layer of the system.

It's not reductive if it's an illusion of choice. If the stat that makes you attack faster and the stat that makes you do more damage are equal, then it's the same. If the stat that makes you attack faster becomes more valuable the stronger you hit, then it's just doing math.
OTOH, if the stat that makes you attack faster also increases your rate of interrupting enemies(either explicitly or implicitly) and the stat that makes you attack harder also increases your resistance or gives you more HP, there's possibly a real tradeoff happening to some degree.

---

For the keen-eyed, the latter part is Pillars of Eternity. Sawyer is great at finding issues, but not very good at fixing them, often going too far in a different direction.

I don’t think I’ve played a game that had this problem that wasn’t a browser game.

[rusty_shackleford]

That’s quite reductive. Attacking with a strength based weapon and an intelligence based spell is rarely the same experience. Stats are just the first layer of the system.

It's not reductive if it's an illusion of choice. If the stat that makes you attack faster and the stat that makes you do more damage are equal, then it's the same. If the stat that makes you attack faster becomes more valuable the stronger you hit, then it's just doing math.
OTOH, if the stat that makes you attack faster also increases your rate of interrupting enemies(either explicitly or implicitly) and the stat that makes you attack harder also increases your resistance or gives you more HP, there's possibly a real tradeoff happening to some degree.

---

For the keen-eyed, the latter part is Pillars of Eternity. Sawyer is great at finding issues, but not very good at fixing them, often going too far in a different direction.

I don’t think I’ve played a game that had this problem that wasn’t a browser game.

It becomes obvious if you've min-maxed in something like an MMO

[rusty_shackleford]

looks good

[maidenhaver]

[Oyster Sauce]

My least favorite part of KCD is how poorly the muckers were treated. It was an essential job/service and the city would have went to **** very quickly without them. I think about this a lot.

[wndrbr]

My least favorite part of KCD is how poorly the muckers were treated. It was an essential job/service and the city would have went to **** very quickly without them. I think about this a lot.

don't remember any cases of poor treatment, i thought it's just the refugees were too prideful and entitled to accept a fecal collecting job.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Handling feces every day sounds like a recipe for contracting an illness and dying. No surprise people would try to avoid it if they could.

[Jordy]

75% off on Steam right now.

[Rand]

75% off on Steam right now.

But who's getting the money?
Not the makers, that's for sure.

[rusty_shackleford]

75% off on Steam right now.

But who's getting the money?
Not the makers, that's for sure.

Microsoft.

[Rand]

75% off on Steam right now.

But who's getting the money?
Not the makers, that's for sure.

Microsoft.

Then why would you give money to them?

Hidden Content

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[rusty_shackleford]

75% off on Steam right now.

But who's getting the money?
Not the makers, that's for sure.

Microsoft.

Then why would you give money to them?

Hidden Content

This board requires you to be registered and logged-in to view hidden content.

Some people are willing to spend a dollar to be able to 1 click play it.

[Rand]

75% off on Steam right now.

But who's getting the money?
Not the makers, that's for sure.

Microsoft.

Then why would you give money to them?

Hidden Content

This board requires you to be registered and logged-in to view hidden content.

Some people are willing to spend a dollar to be able to 1 click play it.

If you play Arcanum raw from Steam, you deserve your bad experience.
It needs mods. (It actually needs an overhaul revision, but there isn't one.)

[Irenaeus]

75% off on Steam right now.

But who's getting the money?
Not the makers, that's for sure.

Microsoft.

Then why would you give money to them?

Hidden Content

This board requires you to be registered and logged-in to view hidden content.

Some people are willing to spend a dollar to be able to 1 click play it.

If you play Arcanum raw from Steam, you deserve your bad experience.
It needs mods. (It actually needs an overhaul revision, but there isn't one.)

It needs the main plot rewritten.

[Roguey]

But who's getting the money?
Not the makers, that's for sure.

The makers never got much money to begin with. According to Tim Cain, Sierra gave them one royalty check and then kept finding excuses to never give them another one again.

[rusty_shackleford]

I quite like Shadow of the Demon Lord’s approach to class design/identity:
https://online.anyflip.com/oipiv/xodw/mobile/index.html

Instead of classes, it has Novice, Expert, and Master paths, none of which have restrictions on being taken. Novice ones conform to the original four of fighter, magic user, cleric, and thief (under different names). Expert and Master paths, which include the likes of ranger and paladin, are chosen at later levels and layer onto the other paths.

The benefits aren’t linear either, as you will still gain features from your novice path at level eight (max is ten).

Just being a “fighter” isn’t enough for most people, and while distinction can emerge in role play, mechanical flavor is also desirable. I like that this system adds meat your specialization without treading on the toes of the main four that every character inevitably falls into.

For anyone who cares, this game has a heavy anti-Christian bias in its setting. "The New God" is obviously a bunch of Christian/Catholic bits mixed together and jumbled up. Astrid is a mix of Mother Mary/Joan of Arc/Jesus(look at the first 'heresy'). The religion as a whole is obviously a stand-in for the Catholic church.


More allusions to Astrid being a Jesus-like figure:


Obvious commentary on how Christians should be cuckolds and anyone who believes in vengeance is actually worshiping the devil:


Oh, and all the gods are actually just fey who get supercharged by prayer.

And the "Cult of the New God" actually worships the devil. So, yes, it's explicitly satanic in nature.


The last two are from a sourcebook that explicitly states:


But it's either part of the story or it's not. That's just trying to save face to further push a narrative already partially written.

Not saying it's a bad game, but there are some Christians here and they would likely want to know. To quote Gygax,

As a Christian, playing with actual religion is quite beyond the pale.

---

Also, orcs are just North Germanics. Appears it's okay to explicitly portray orcs as a real-world race when it's white people being portrayed.



[edit]

Aaaand found the Gnosticism. Capital 'G' God is the 'demon lord', btw.

[Gastrick]

75% off on Steam right now.

But who's getting the money?
Not the makers, that's for sure.

Microsoft.

Then why would you give money to them?

Hidden Content

This board requires you to be registered and logged-in to view hidden content.

Some people are willing to spend a dollar to be able to 1 click play it.

Doesn't make much sense,
>Open up steam
>Let it load
>Switch to the game
>Click Play

Rather than just:
>Hit the Windows Key
>Single-click the pinned game
With no annoying achievements or notifications.

[rusty_shackleford]

Then why would you give money to them?

Hidden Content

This board requires you to be registered and logged-in to view hidden content.

Some people are willing to spend a dollar to be able to 1 click play it.

Doesn't make much sense,
>Open up steam
>Let it load
>Switch to the game
>Click Play

Rather than just:
>Hit the Windows Key
>Single-click the pinned game
With no annoying achievements or notifications.

>Open Up Steam
>Click Play
>Downloads, Installs, Plays

[KnightoftheWind]

I download games from GOG, link the .exe to Heroic Launcher, and play the game that way. It even manages Proton for me.

[Rand]

His blather to information ratio isn't great, but there's a lot here to dig through.

[Jordy]

His blather to information ratio isn't great, but there's a lot here to dig through.

I generally like his videos. He might be paid to promote certain games I dunno, if he is he still gives an honest opinion on them. I don't always agree with his takes but that's alright.