Dungeons & Dragons Online

[rusty_shackleford]

@Boontaker @Tweed @Kalarion I logged off because I was exhausted, been sick lately. Wasn't angry or anything. I assumed I had to be present to continue the dungeon so I didn't want to stall you guys.

[Boontaker]

@Boontaker @Tweed @Kalarion I logged off because I was exhausted, been sick lately. Wasn't angry or anything. I assumed I had to be present to continue the dungeon so I didn't want to stall you guys.

No worries, We can run Tangleroot as a group to get the renown we are looking for. Less of a PITA dungeon

Also we should run the Chronosphere before people level past 9

[Tweed]

@Vergil

► Show Spoiler

ROGUE HALP ROGUE TRAP TRAP ROGUE HELP DISARM TRAP HELP HURRY ROGUE ROGUE TRAP PLS TRAP PLS TRAP PLS HELP ROGUE WHERE IS ROGUE TRAP HERE PLS HELP TRAP!

[maidenhaver]

Is this a game you can play maybe two weeks, every other month?

[Boontaker]

Is this a game you can play maybe two weeks, every other month?

Yes, unlike other MMOs DDO has an extreme scaling end game loop on the Reincarnation system. Legendary Raids on maximum difficulty require such powerful characters that Reincarnation becomes mandatory.

Reincarnation is where you take a character at maximum level, choose a permanent bonus to keep then re-create the character (new race/class if you want) and level it again to pick another permanent bonus. I think the game is nearing 100 different Reincarnation bonuses at this point.

With the Reincarnation system you can play a couple of times a year, each time with a different character build. All while increasing the power of your "main" via the Reincarnation system.

[Kalarion]

Sorry for the last two nights. I'll try to get on tomorrow night, but the rest of the week through the weekend is going to be very busy for me.

[Tweed]

I have a horsey and you guys don't.

[Xenich]

Is this a game you can play maybe two weeks, every other month?

To add on to what @Boontaker was saying. This is really one of the only games that can be played for decades at an average play approach and you will never run out of "progression" (ie being able to improve your character).

There is a certain repetition to the game though as was explained with the reincarnation system because it centers around replaying the same content over and over (as opposed to beating a certain zone in an MMO and never going back unless you make a new character).

The game is broken into 3 basic stages.

1-20 is Heroic.

This is your "class" system. All classes technically level to a max of 20. After that, heroic ends. So, if you decide to multiclass, you must design your character within the 1-20 for the class system, Warrior/Rogue (12/8) for example. Heroic is comprised of your basic AD&D roughly 3.5 edition ruleset and this contains your basic level/feats/skills selections as you level. While leveling, each "bubble" (ranks) will provide you an enhancement points (ranks 1-4) which you can then put into the "enhancement trees" which each class gets around 3+ trees, a racial tree specific to your race, and several universal trees that are content/expansion/VIP locked (if you FTP, you will be limited to what you have). Also, there are some special points additionally you can obtain for both racial and universal trees outside of leveling and can ONLY be spent to those trees.

The more classes you multiclass into, the more enchantment trees you will have to select from. Enhancements as you can already see are limited by the points you have to spend (4 x 20 levels) and within the trees, there "may" be various requirements such (point cost, level restirctions, and total point in tree requirements). Each tree is comprised of a "core" set which open up with the points you spend in the tree and capstones (top of the tree which if you pick, will lock out capstones in other trees).

You can essentially play this game up to 20, use a "Heroic True Heart of Wood" and reincarnate back to level 1, pick a different race/class and play again obtaining a bonus depending on the class (or race if you choose "Racial Reincarnation" (same as heroic, but counts your race as the bonus you get.


20-30 Epic.

At 20, you no longer level a class, you are capped at whatever you made up to 20 and you being "Epic" content (which does require you to either have obtained the content through an expansion, or you purchase epic progression individually in the store, but I think... not sure... VIP gets it as part of the sub). Epic content uses a concept similar to Enhancement Trees called "Destiny Trees" and they will lean to various class styles, skills, abilities, and makeups. Generally, they are all open, but may be locked via content purchase again, through expansions or individually (for instance the Mech tree).

With epic content, like Heroic, you can choose to level from 20-30, and do Epic reincarnation back to level 20 (keeping your class, but destiny trees get wiped and you get a past life feat for each sphere you reincarnate in. So you can choose never to go back to level 1 again and keep repeating 20-30 as you like building epic feat past lives with different spheres.

Not all heroic quests are epic scaled, but a lot are and epic quests may contain additional areas, more requirements, etc... to obtain the epic rewards.

Legendary 30-35

This is a bit different, I am not completely familiar with it, but from what I have gathered, it is similar to epic progression (you level and gain destiny, epic feats, etc... as normal) but this is perm exp, so lets say you make it to 32 and decide to do another epic reincarnation, you will be set back to 20 and start basic epic progression, but... when you hit 30, you will be granted the exp up to the level you had progressed before (ie back up to 32). You can keep working on legendary exp and reincarnating over and over until you hit cap.

All Heroic/Epic content does not give EXP once you hit legendary and you are limited to only specific legendary content that is designed for the 30+ game.



Reincarnation approaches.

You can play the game as you like, but there are past life feats for completing all the categories in reincarnation that stack on top of your normal past life feats called "Completionist" feats. For heroic, is it playing every class once. For Iconic, it is playing every iconic class once, for race, it is playing every race once and for epic, it is for playing each specific epic sphere focus once. These you get on top of being able to play every class, iconic, race, Epic sphere past life bonus feat (which can all be done 3 times with stackable past life feat bonuses).

If you plan to go for the long haul, plan out your play or you will end up repeating stuff you don't need to. For instance, with Iconic classes, you not only get the iconic credit for past life feats, but also the "class" credit. So if you really want to be efficient, play the iconics for class credits (not all iconics cover the classes) so you don't have to repeat anything on your run.

Also, it is generally approached... to level 1-20, then 20-30. Do an epic reincarnation back to 20, then heroic reincarnation back to 1 and begin another class. For iconic, you start with the exp to hit level 15 (you can choose to play from 1 though) and you level to 30. There are various strategies on how to maximize reincarnation of Heroic, Iconic, Race, and Epic, but I won't go into those details, just be aware or you may waste effort repeating.

So regardless of how much you play, it won't effect anything... but... I will say this. People who have played the game for years and have many lives under their belt will be VERY powerful and the more powerful you get, the easier Heroic content (and epics) get. A level 1 with many lives will have a crap load of bonuses what allows them to steam roll basic content.

This is where... Reaper content comes in. There is an additional difficulty on top of elite called reaper. There are 10 levels you can choose from each time you run a dungeon. Reaper has its on special enhancement tree which you earn points for by playing reaper. These enhancements only take effect in reaper and it is essentially to add challenge and progression for past life players to deal with the easy content.

It is advised, if you can.. to run reaper 1 or 2 as it is more efficient in your play, but... it may be a bit difficult for early lives.


Anyway, DDO is very efficient in its content use and it is the type of game people play for decades. I have been playing it off and on since release, I haven't seen a lot of the content and have only reincarnated a handful of times, but it has always been something you can go back to as they keep adding more layers to play, new content, etc...

It is one of those "diamond in the rough" games that many do not realize and to be honest, I think many MMOs out there would still be going strong if they attempted to adopt its style of progression.

Yeah... its a lot to read, but its a lot of info.

[asf]

tldr

[Xenich]

tldr

This might help!

[Vergil]

Is this a game you can play maybe two weeks, every other month?

To add on to what @Boontaker was saying. This is really one of the only games that can be played for decades at an average play approach and you will never run out of "progression" (ie being able to improve your character).

There is a certain repetition to the game though as was explained with the reincarnation system because it centers around replaying the same content over and over (as opposed to beating a certain zone in an MMO and never going back unless you make a new character).

The game is broken into 3 basic stages.

1-20 is Heroic.

This is your "class" system. All classes technically level to a max of 20. After that, heroic ends. So, if you decide to multiclass, you must design your character within the 1-20 for the class system, Warrior/Rogue (12/8) for example. Heroic is comprised of your basic AD&D roughly 3.5 edition ruleset and this contains your basic level/feats/skills selections as you level. While leveling, each "bubble" (ranks) will provide you an enhancement points (ranks 1-4) which you can then put into the "enhancement trees" which each class gets around 3+ trees, a racial tree specific to your race, and several universal trees that are content/expansion/VIP locked (if you FTP, you will be limited to what you have). Also, there are some special points additionally you can obtain for both racial and universal trees outside of leveling and can ONLY be spent to those trees.

The more classes you multiclass into, the more enchantment trees you will have to select from. Enhancements as you can already see are limited by the points you have to spend (4 x 20 levels) and within the trees, there "may" be various requirements such (point cost, level restirctions, and total point in tree requirements). Each tree is comprised of a "core" set which open up with the points you spend in the tree and capstones (top of the tree which if you pick, will lock out capstones in other trees).

You can essentially play this game up to 20, use a "Heroic True Heart of Wood" and reincarnate back to level 1, pick a different race/class and play again obtaining a bonus depending on the class (or race if you choose "Racial Reincarnation" (same as heroic, but counts your race as the bonus you get.


20-30 Epic.

At 20, you no longer level a class, you are capped at whatever you made up to 20 and you being "Epic" content (which does require you to either have obtained the content through an expansion, or you purchase epic progression individually in the store, but I think... not sure... VIP gets it as part of the sub). Epic content uses a concept similar to Enhancement Trees called "Destiny Trees" and they will lean to various class styles, skills, abilities, and makeups. Generally, they are all open, but may be locked via content purchase again, through expansions or individually (for instance the Mech tree).

With epic content, like Heroic, you can choose to level from 20-30, and do Epic reincarnation back to level 20 (keeping your class, but destiny trees get wiped and you get a past life feat for each sphere you reincarnate in. So you can choose never to go back to level 1 again and keep repeating 20-30 as you like building epic feat past lives with different spheres.

Not all heroic quests are epic scaled, but a lot are and epic quests may contain additional areas, more requirements, etc... to obtain the epic rewards.

Legendary 30-35

This is a bit different, I am not completely familiar with it, but from what I have gathered, it is similar to epic progression (you level and gain destiny, epic feats, etc... as normal) but this is perm exp, so lets say you make it to 32 and decide to do another epic reincarnation, you will be set back to 20 and start basic epic progression, but... when you hit 30, you will be granted the exp up to the level you had progressed before (ie back up to 32). You can keep working on legendary exp and reincarnating over and over until you hit cap.

All Heroic/Epic content does not give EXP once you hit legendary and you are limited to only specific legendary content that is designed for the 30+ game.



Reincarnation approaches.

You can play the game as you like, but there are past life feats for completing all the categories in reincarnation that stack on top of your normal past life feats called "Completionist" feats. For heroic, is it playing every class once. For Iconic, it is playing every iconic class once, for race, it is playing every race once and for epic, it is for playing each specific epic sphere focus once. These you get on top of being able to play every class, iconic, race, Epic sphere past life bonus feat (which can all be done 3 times with stackable past life feat bonuses).

If you plan to go for the long haul, plan out your play or you will end up repeating stuff you don't need to. For instance, with Iconic classes, you not only get the iconic credit for past life feats, but also the "class" credit. So if you really want to be efficient, play the iconics for class credits (not all iconics cover the classes) so you don't have to repeat anything on your run.

Also, it is generally approached... to level 1-20, then 20-30. Do an epic reincarnation back to 20, then heroic reincarnation back to 1 and begin another class. For iconic, you start with the exp to hit level 15 (you can choose to play from 1 though) and you level to 30. There are various strategies on how to maximize reincarnation of Heroic, Iconic, Race, and Epic, but I won't go into those details, just be aware or you may waste effort repeating.

So regardless of how much you play, it won't effect anything... but... I will say this. People who have played the game for years and have many lives under their belt will be VERY powerful and the more powerful you get, the easier Heroic content (and epics) get. A level 1 with many lives will have a crap load of bonuses what allows them to steam roll basic content.

This is where... Reaper content comes in. There is an additional difficulty on top of elite called reaper. There are 10 levels you can choose from each time you run a dungeon. Reaper has its on special enhancement tree which you earn points for by playing reaper. These enhancements only take effect in reaper and it is essentially to add challenge and progression for past life players to deal with the easy content.

It is advised, if you can.. to run reaper 1 or 2 as it is more efficient in your play, but... it may be a bit difficult for early lives.


Anyway, DDO is very efficient in its content use and it is the type of game people play for decades. I have been playing it off and on since release, I haven't seen a lot of the content and have only reincarnated a handful of times, but it has always been something you can go back to as they keep adding more layers to play, new content, etc...

It is one of those "diamond in the rough" games that many do not realize and to be honest, I think many MMOs out there would still be going strong if they attempted to adopt its style of progression.

Yeah... its a lot to read, but its a lot of info.

God I hope this is chatgpt.

[Orvas Dren]

this looks mediocre at best

[Xenich]

this looks mediocre at best

As compared to what?

I mean, I can understand if this is your view, but what do you use as a standard to compare it to? UO, EQ, WoW, Eve, etc...?

[rusty_shackleford]

As compared to what?

The only game even remotely similar to DDO is Guild Wars and they're still a mile apart. It's entirely unique, and definitely not an MMO.

[Xenich]

As compared to what?

The only game even remotely similar to DDO is Guild Wars and they're still a mile apart. It's entirely unique, and definitely not an MMO.

Yeah, which is why I was wondering. If you are coming from an EQ/WOW or any other MMO these days background, DDO is so different it turns people off. Even with the Wilderness areas they added to give it more of a "MMO" open world like feel, it is still not comparable. I have seen some who give it a chance absolutely love it, but others who expect a certain template based on traditional MMOs hate it with a passion, especially the way EXP is done.

I listened to someone on voice once trying it out the first time and they spent hours in a dungeon constantly dying and then decided to just call it a night only to rage quit when they found out they got no exp for all that time. Granted they were idiots and tried to zerg everything (this was pre-enchancments and the first major overhaul they did to the system).

[Vergil]

this looks mediocre at best

That's because it is. Mediocre is an incredibly high bar for MMOs btw.

[Xenich]

this looks mediocre at best

That's because it is. Mediocre is an incredibly high bar for MMOs btw.

What is?

Its development system? It is far more complex and nuanced than anything out there with its layers of development. It statistical aspects (ie attributes, skills, etc...) are more complex than most MMOs I can think of (even early MMOs did not put the level of attention into attributes and how they modify actions within the game with modern MMOs obviously dumbing down everything to a single stat).

Its interaction system is more complex than anything as well (levels, puzzles, switches, floor tiles, secret doors, control boxes, etc...).

Its skills all have relevant function within the game by not only have an effect on conversation checks, but also being usable in combat (ie bluff, Diplomacy, intimidate).

its cycle of progression through the reincarnation system has no comparison and its ability to scale difficulty surpasses that of most games that even offer such features.

Its quests are very objective focused with numerous conditions and interactive conditions and the dungeons are far more complex in their layouts than most MMOs.

Its spell system is also rather rich and complex using various features and functions that no other MMO implements (not to mention, most single RPGs don't have that complexity).

So, I am interested "honestly", what is "Mediocre" (ie inferior quality, ability) with it when it is for more advanced and complex in its systems than pretty much all MMOs out there (and those of the past)?

[Vergil]

(levels, puzzles, switches, floor tiles, secret doors, control boxes, etc...).

That's great and all but 90% of actual gameplay is collecting quests (which all basically amount to "complete this dungeon")you won't bother to read the flavor text for and then sprinting through dungeons as fast as possible while playing as one of the handful of viable builds while maybe having to do a children's slide puzzle at the end of some of them. Pressing the detect trap button and then pressing the disable trap button aren't what I would call "complex interactions" either.
You're way over selling it and if someone reads you abhorrent screed about how the game is a revolutionary departure from the traditional MMO experience they are going to be severely disappointed.

[Xenich]

(levels, puzzles, switches, floor tiles, secret doors, control boxes, etc...).

That's great and all but 90% of actual gameplay is collecting quests (which all basically amount to "complete this dungeon")you won't bother to read the flavor text for and then sprinting through dungeons as fast as possible while playing as one of the handful of viable builds while maybe having to do a children's slide puzzle at the end of some of them. Pressing the detect trap button and then pressing the disable trap button aren't what I would call "complex interactions" either.
You're way over selling it and if someone reads you abhorrent screed about how the game is a revolutionary departure from the traditional MMO experience they are going to be severely disappointed.

1. Read the quests, don't run around like an idiot just collecting quests. That is modern mainstream hub game play. Reality is, most quests relevant to the story flow are near each other, or... the map will blink with the next NPC or quest entrance you are to complete (read the legend in your map). Also, later quests that are part of a series are all self contained or "hubed" for the mainstream morons.

2. Running a dungeon as fast as possible is moronic mainstream idiot play. Stop zerging, stick together as a group if you group. If you solo, pick up a hireling if you need additional support, they are part of game play.

3. Complex interactions? As opposed to other games having none? Remember you said it was "mediocre" when it is in fact more complex than any other MMO out there in terms of its interactable (that is the point). If you want to say the puzzles are simple, ok.. sure.. they aren't "hard" (though some dungeons are a bit more complex than the average as you get later into the game). I said "compared to what?", not simply an assessment of infinite evaluation.

4. As for "viable builds", well... you are a noob, get better, look at all of your skills and what they do, they aren't there for flavor and you need to build your character for play. Not every dungeon is going to be catering to every build, so... you will have to think, build, adjust, etc... to get past things. If you don't have a rogue, you need to be able to handle various types of traps with skills and spells (potions, scrolls, skills, etc...).

A barb doesn't need to worry about traps as much because they can often survive getting through them. a wizard can often bypass with various things like spell resistance and the like. Other classes also have means to deal with this.

The reality is you have no clue what you are talking about because you only understand a small portion of the game, which is why I said if you are a modern mainstream ****** in your expectations, all the subtleties, features of play and the like will be lost on you.

To a hammer, everything is a nail. This is the problem with mainstream MMO expectations.

Don't be a ****** and actually play the game as it was designed.

edit:

Also, remember I said be careful on what you pick as a class to start. A new player who doesn't understand the game and how it plays will be murdered by playing certain classes until they understand how useful all the tools out there are. Skills are not for flavor, they all have primary and secondary purposes.

Lastly, you ***** about the amount I type, then complain about reading quests... FFS, you might as well tell me you are a ******** WOW modern mainstream gamer who has the attention span of a gnat.

[Envergence]

So, I am interested "honestly", what is "Mediocre" (ie inferior quality, ability)

Mediocre doesn't mean inferior. It means middling/average quality. You're going hard on the defense over a misunderstanding of a word's definition. Nammu probably would've called it subpar (etc.) if he meant inferior. He's saying the game looks par at best, with nothing that makes it jump out at him compared to anything else of the accepted standard.

[rusty_shackleford]

It can't be 'mediocre' because there's nothing to compare it to, it's entirely unique.

[Xenich]

So, I am interested "honestly", what is "Mediocre" (ie inferior quality, ability)

Mediocre doesn't mean inferior. It means middling/average quality. You're going hard on the defense over a misunderstanding of a word's definition. Nammu probably would've called it subpar (etc.) if he meant inferior. He's saying the game looks par at best, with nothing that makes it jump out at him compared to anything else of the accepted standard.

Again, compared to what? I am not defensive, I was just interested to know what they were using to come to their point. As Rusty said, it isn't like anything out there and my point is that I have dealt with this in the past where someone who only sees things in modern mmo hub based hack and slash dumbed down development systems where "balance" means every class is the same and progression is stacking points in a single attribute and playing disco dance while spamming a key over and over somehow disregards all the nuances of the game and proclaims it subpar.

Like I said, it is a completely different game from what people know and it requires something that modern MMOs don't, which is you have to think about your builds, your choices, read the quests, and it has major consequences for being a zerg spammer (well, until you become poweful that is, later game gets a bit too "modern MMO" in its design.

[Envergence]

So, I am interested "honestly", what is "Mediocre" (ie inferior quality, ability)

Mediocre doesn't mean inferior. It means middling/average quality. You're going hard on the defense over a misunderstanding of a word's definition. Nammu probably would've called it subpar (etc.) if he meant inferior. He's saying the game looks par at best, with nothing that makes it jump out at him compared to anything else of the accepted standard.

[Xenich]

Mediocre doesn't mean inferior. It means middling/average quality. You're going hard on the defense over a misunderstanding of a word's definition. Nammu probably would've called it subpar (etc.) if he meant inferior. He's saying the game looks par at best, with nothing that makes it jump out at him compared to anything else of the accepted standard.

How is it average if it exceeds in features past that of all other MMOs out there?

[rusty_shackleford]

sorry libtards, there's only one dictionary I recognize


DDO can't be middling because it has no peer.

[Oyster Sauce]

(levels, puzzles, switches, floor tiles, secret doors, control boxes, etc...).

That's great and all but 90% of actual gameplay is collecting quests (which all basically amount to "complete this dungeon")you won't bother to read the flavor text for and then sprinting through dungeons as fast as possible while playing as one of the handful of viable builds while maybe having to do a children's slide puzzle at the end of some of them. Pressing the detect trap button and then pressing the disable trap button aren't what I would call "complex interactions" either.
You're way over selling it and if someone reads you abhorrent screed about how the game is a revolutionary departure from the traditional MMO experience they are going to be severely disappointed.

2. Running a dungeon as fast as possible is moronic mainstream idiot play. Stop zerging, stick together as a group if you group. If you solo, pick up a hireling if you need additional support, they are part of game play.

Why is it moronic if it works?

[Xenich]

That's great and all but 90% of actual gameplay is collecting quests (which all basically amount to "complete this dungeon")you won't bother to read the flavor text for and then sprinting through dungeons as fast as possible while playing as one of the handful of viable builds while maybe having to do a children's slide puzzle at the end of some of them. Pressing the detect trap button and then pressing the disable trap button aren't what I would call "complex interactions" either.
You're way over selling it and if someone reads you abhorrent screed about how the game is a revolutionary departure from the traditional MMO experience they are going to be severely disappointed.

2. Running a dungeon as fast as possible is moronic mainstream idiot play. Stop zerging, stick together as a group if you group. If you solo, pick up a hireling if you need additional support, they are part of game play.

Why is it moronic if it works?

Does it though or maybe the difficulty needs to be increased if zerging is working fine?

[Vergil]

Lastly, you ***** about the amount I type, then complain about reading quests... FFS, you might as well tell me you are a ******** WOW modern mainstream gamer who has the attention span of a gnat.

When the group plays half the time I don't even have a chance to because the quests are shared with the party. Do you think everyone is going to be chill if I say wait let me stop so I can open the quest log and read the 6 quests boontaker just shared with the party?

Not gonna read the rest of your spergout btw you need to condense them.

[rusty_shackleford]

hate to break it to everyone, but there is no way to make story-based content work in a coop setting

[edit]
and the biggest issue with DDO quests is the lack of continuity between them, but I enjoyed them a lot. Play them solo, do it on a lower difficulty, go at your own pace.

[Xenich]

Lastly, you ***** about the amount I type, then complain about reading quests... FFS, you might as well tell me you are a ******** WOW modern mainstream gamer who has the attention span of a gnat.

When the group plays half the time I don't even have a chance to because the quests are shared with the party. Do you think everyone is going to be chill if I say wait let me stop so I can open the quest log and read the 6 quests boontaker just shared with the party?

Most quests aren't that much text (some can be large amounts), are you that slow of a reader? Besides, there are quest objectives listed AND a GM often narrates a lot of the story, not to mention the voiced dialogue of the NPCs. Not sure how this is a problem.

I understand about impatient people though. I have had people play with me from time to time who were mainstream WoW players and they sucked at the game, impatient, wouldn't read anything, wouldn't even pay attention to the narration or the objectives, they would just run around spamming attack and dying to traps or mass mobs when they over pulled a room.

So I sympathize, but the problem is the player, not the game.

Not gonna read the rest of your spergout btw you need to condense them.

Kind of explains your problem with the quest text.