Ideas to make learn-by-use more interesting

[J1M]

Consider visiting a VR cafe. Will eliminate any curiosity you have for about 5 years.

Don't think you were referring to this but it looks neat https://sandboxvr.com/

That looks like it does a better job of hiding the 'no walking' restriction than most. I hadn't seen that format before. It does still look like an arcade experience. (Something that relies on the hardware novelty for enjoyment.) Give me a few months and I'll give you my impressions.

[Norfleet]

I'm not interested in making the game interesting to people who play badly on purpose!

Oh, people who play badly on PURPOSE know what they're doing. I'm just saying we shouldn't encourage turbo-autism by incentivizing it, and thus by extension penalize not doing so.

[J1M]

Yes, and we'll even pay an AI to make a unique animation for each skill at 3 tiers of proficiency. The lockpicking finishing move is quite gross.

Forget the lockpicking finishing move, I want to know what the Speech or Healing finishing moves are.

You've seen speech before, surely. Your character plays a .wav file and the bad guy commits suicide so you can get the non-lethal achievement.

Healing? All the bosses are undead. Done. Or an overload of holy energy, like touching the surface of the sun. Or healing a prisoner that exacts revenge. Or a healing staff that you decapitate the enemy with and then the heal-on-hit effect is insufficient to counteract that.

[Stack of Turtles]

Yes, and we'll even pay an AI to make a unique animation for each skill at 3 tiers of proficiency. The lockpicking finishing move is quite gross.

Forget the lockpicking finishing move, I want to know what the Speech or Healing finishing moves are.

You've seen speech before, surely. Your character plays a .wav file and the bad guy commits suicide so you can get the non-lethal achievement.

Healing? All the bosses are undead. Done. Or an overload of holy energy, like touching the surface of the sun. Or healing a prisoner that exacts revenge. Or a healing staff that you decapitate the enemy with and then the heal-on-hit effect is insufficient to counteract that.

Just heal all the bacteria and cancer cells in his body until they take over

[Stack of Turtles]

Anyway, I can't really answer this question until you tell me what you mean by "interesting".

[J1M]

Forget the lockpicking finishing move, I want to know what the Speech or Healing finishing moves are.

You've seen speech before, surely. Your character plays a .wav file and the bad guy commits suicide so you can get the non-lethal achievement.

Healing? All the bosses are undead. Done. Or an overload of holy energy, like touching the surface of the sun. Or healing a prisoner that exacts revenge. Or a healing staff that you decapitate the enemy with and then the heal-on-hit effect is insufficient to counteract that.

Just heal all the bacteria and cancer cells in his body until they take over

Cast the healing spell with a negative-level spell slot.

[Norfleet]

Healing? All the bosses are undead. Done. Or an overload of holy energy, like touching the surface of the sun. Or healing a prisoner that exacts revenge. Or a healing staff that you decapitate the enemy with and then the heal-on-hit effect is insufficient to counteract that.

What's the finishing move for the armor or trade skill?

Anyway, I can't really answer this question until you tell me what you mean by "interesting".

In my case, I'm mostly going with least dis-interesting. As I've stated before in other threads where Rusty has raised the skills question, skill systems are pretty much never interesting and always devolve to all-or-nothing anyway, and changing this is basically definitionally impossible: The max level of a skill is the level you need to be at to do the thing. If this level is below the hardcap max, then this level is the de facto max (so this is our "all"). Any level below that cannot do the thing, so is pointless. Therefore, all or nothing. Either you have the skill or you don't.

Given this, the most "interesting" learn-by-use would therefore be to make the skill unlocked through some kind of gameplay where the player actually performs the action, whereupon the character acquires the skill, and henceforth the player is no longer required to micromanage the action. To gain the lockpicking skill, therefore, the player picks a lock, or sufficient locks to demonstrate possession of the skill. From that point on, the player will no longer be nagged about it. There would be no "lockpicking skill" to grind, because skills are binary (as pointed out previously): You have it, or you don't. The character thus progresses from helpless baby trying to figure it out has hands, to gaining the "walking" skill, to figuring out how to not **** itself, to being able to pick locks. This can also function as your character generation.

[Stack of Turtles]

The character thus progresses from helpless baby trying to figure it out has hands, to gaining the "walking" skill, to figuring out how to not **** itself, to being able to pick locks. This can also function as your character generation.

I saw this in a MUD once.

[J1M]

Healing? All the bosses are undead. Done. Or an overload of holy energy, like touching the surface of the sun. Or healing a prisoner that exacts revenge. Or a healing staff that you decapitate the enemy with and then the heal-on-hit effect is insufficient to counteract that.

What's the finishing move for the armor or trade skill?

Just use your imagination. Mercantile skill can place pennies on the eyes as the villain expires.

Or maybe those aren't skills in this game. Wouldn't it be nice to have a variety of interesting games?

[Norfleet]

Or maybe those aren't skills in this game.

So we're limited only to skills that involve killing something, then.

Wouldn't it be nice to have a variety of interesting games?

Honestly? Not really. Variety is only good insofar as everything is ****, and therefore, you're forced to bounce from shitpile to shitpile in an attempt to extract the gems from each. The ideal would actually be a single ultimate forever-game that does everything.

[rusty_shackleford]

speech skills suck because dialogue trees are terrible

[Oyster Sauce]

TES skill trainer NPCs would be better if they gave you quests that rewarded you with increased XP gain in their skill up to a certain point instead of directly giving you levels.

[J1M]

Or maybe those aren't skills in this game.

So we're limited only to skills that involve killing something, then.

Or you could use a tiny bit of imagination and come up with something.

[rusty_shackleford]

Has any learn-by-use game included failure as part of its model? What about adjusting the XP by difficulty of action?

[J1M]

Has any learn-by-use game included failure as part of its model? What about adjusting the XP by difficulty of action?

If I had to design a system like this for a board game I would make skill only go up for failure.

[maidenhaver]

Has any learn-by-use game included failure as part of its model? What about adjusting the XP by difficulty of action?

If I had to design a system like this for a board game I would make skill only go up for failure.

Designed around failing until your skill and character skill even out?

[J1M]

Has any learn-by-use game included failure as part of its model? What about adjusting the XP by difficulty of action?

If I had to design a system like this for a board game I would make skill only go up for failure.

Designed around failing until your skill and character skill even out?

More like a consolation prize if you have a bad roll. Unlike an Elder Scrolls game, you wouldn't have unlimited time to skill everything up before your allies/enemies end the game.

[Acrux]

Has any learn-by-use game included failure as part of its model? What about adjusting the XP by difficulty of action?

Grimoire uses the wisdom stat for xp on failure.

There are definitely games that reduce xp from lack of use.

[DemoGraph]

You can probably split the 100 levels of skill mastery into tiers (0-24 newbie, 25-49 apprentice, 50-74 adept, 75-99 expert, 100 master), and then change the requirements for levelling depending on player's current tier.

I.e. a newbie can raise his archery by just practicing with a wooden target, apprentice can raise it by hunting game, increasing archery as an adept would require engaging in an actual combat, and expert would need to score headshots.

WoW did this. You stop getting XP from low-level craftin recipes when your skill is high enough. IIRC, it's the same for harvesting skills.

One skill point per boss. Awarded to the skill used for the killing blow.

Think that defeats the purpose which is supposed to be immershun
unless it was done like e.g., the boss gives you special plot thing that makes you good

FF bosses give out materia.

Has any learn-by-use game included failure as part of its model? What about adjusting the XP by difficulty of action?

Kenshi. You want to get hit to grind for blocking and toughness. Also, it gives more XP for lower success chance.

[maidenhaver]

I like skill books, quests, or rumors hinting the location of freelance trainers, and trainers being necessary for unlocking higher levels of a skill.