Good Samaritan & Functional Pockets List

[rusty_shackleford]

Over time and after playing many games, I have come to the conclusion that you can judge whether a game cares about creating a reactive and convincing gameworld by two tests. I wanted to make a list of games that pass these tests.

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Good Samaritan Test

The game acknowledges that you helped a character without being explicitly prompted to do so, and it rewards or reacts to your action in a meaningful way. However, the initial action must not be presented as a clear option by the game.

"Rusty's Good Samaritan Test" = The game acknowledges that you helped a character without any prior request to do so, and it must not be in the form of a dialogue option. I first came up with it during Shadows of Undrentide for NWN, there's some NPCs I saw that were injured and I healed them, and the game acknowledged it, and rewarded me for it. There was nothing that prompted me to do so, or anything to suggest you'd get something in return for it. The game just expected you to pay attention to what's happening, and involve yourself in the game world.

This often appears in highly reactive games, where player actions outside the main story path still have meaningful outcomes. The idea is that the game expects you to engage with the world proactively. If the game explicitly tells you to do it, it doesn't count. This can take shape in many forms e.g., deciding to intervene to save someone who would have died without your help is equally valid, as long as you aren't told or prompted to do so and it's not required to progress the game.

Spoiler gameplay examples!

• Neverwinter Nights: Shadows of the Undrentide
• ATOM RPG
• Wasteland 3
• Divinity: Original Sin 2
• Baldur's Gate 3
• Seven: Days Long Gone

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Functional Pockets Test

This test ensures that items in the gameworld are persistent, meaning if you give an item to an NPC, it is tracked in their inventory. Conversely, if an NPC has an item, you should be able to steal or obtain it by other means.

To pass this test, the game must attempt to simulate items actually existing in the gameworld. This means that if you give an item to an NPC, it goes into their inventory in some form(e.g., a shopkeeper may place it into a storage chest.) If an NPC gives you an item, you could have instead stolen or obtained it from their person in another form, and the item must have existed prior to the NPC giving it to you, and must be removed from where it was taken from.
Simulating items only for NPC companions is not enough to pass this test.

► Example of Failure

As an example of a failure, there is a quest in early Deadfire that has you acquire a coinpurse. Before it was patched, you could obtain the same item multiple times because the game does not attempt to simulate item persistence.
From the Deadfire wiki:

Pickpocket the pouch from Mokeha (easiest at night, in her home). Before patch 3.1.0 this even worked after you'd convinced her to hand it over peacefully. You ended up with two pouches in your inventory, although taking money from the two pouches only gave you one pouch worth. However, finishing the quest first used up one pouch, leaving you the other pouch to loot later. After patch 3.1.0 there is only one pouch to go around, if you already have it you can't see it on Mokeha anymore when you pickpocket her.

Even after fixing this issue, it does not go on this list. It is not actually attempting to simulate item persistence, but using some cheap 'stagecraft', for lack of a better term.

• Most Bethesda games.
• Most Larian games.
• Seven: Days Long Gone

Bethesda games aren't on the Samaritan test, and tend to end up feeling very sterile and having little reactivity.

[TKVNC]

I'd argue Kenshi does both of these.

Saving NPC's, either with medicine, freeing them from cages, slavery, so-on - they will react, and their faction(s) rep will increase relative to their standing, and how much you helped

As for items... Anything you see on an NPC can be taken when they are unconscious / dead (although some NPC's, named ones specifically, will regenerate equipment if they escape and get back to their Home - not a huge issue since it sort of makes sense, but the generation of unique weapons ruins that a bit) - and for Vendors, you can clear their storage out by stealing, and it reflects their goods for sale, so-on, so-on.


I think there should be another element, that being how the world 'continues' without your input, some games do this, some do not - it's actually pretty hard to simulate, except for timed scripts, like Wasteland 2 for example, or perhaps some of the BG3 quests which change if you take too long.

But that's more to make the world actually 'feel' real, because it doesn't act like a theme park.

[wndrbr]

Functional Pockets Test

KCD probably does that, although i haven't checked because the pickpocket minigame in that game is a pain.

[Acrux]

Arcanum does both. Probably most famously with obtaining Dog. Also, there are two quests that meet up: finding a lost painting and helping a medium get her crystal ball back. Normally, if you give her back the crystal ball she'll reward you with telling you where the painting is. However, if you've already recovered the painting she gives you a bonus to Beauty instead. I'm sure there are several more, but those immediately come to mind.

Also, almost all inventory items can be sold, stolen, or moved to NPCs, shopkeepers, etc. Companions will infamously pick up weapons dropped by enemies, so you have to keep an eye on what they are using.

[Faceless_Sentinel]

Death Standing fits this demands:

► Show Spoiler

Screenshot_20241027-093416.png

MULES type of enemies react differently depending on presence of items that you carry.

[logincrash]

Resident Evil 4 (the original, at least, no idea about the remake) passes the Samaritan Test.

► Show Spoiler

If you help a wolf that's stuck in a beartrap near the start of the game, that wolf comes back to help you in a boss fight against the huge village ******.

It's not prompted by the game, as far as I know.

[TKVNC]

Functional Pockets Test

KCD probably does that, although i haven't checked because the pickpocket minigame in that game is a pain.

It does do this, the only exception is for specific Named NPCs - Radzig, Hanush, and Divish - as far as I know, they can never be knocked unconscious (because their armour / gear is not playable).

[Rand]

Spoiler gameplay examples!
Neverwinter Nights: Shadows of the Undrentide
ATOM RPG
Wasteland 3
Divinity: Original Sin 2
Baldur's Gate 3
Seven: Days Long Gone

No spoiler examples shown...

I am curious about them now. Thanks @rusty_shackleford for the irritation.

For ATOM RPG, are you referring to the guy in the town (Krasnoznamenny or whatever) that asks for some pelts, but tells you it's not important, he's not expecting it, and not to bother writing it down (and your quest log, normally extensive, doesn't).

Oh, and it's just Neverwinter Nights: Shadows of Undrentide. No "the" in the title.

[Faceless_Sentinel]

Resident Evil 4 (the original, at least, no idea about the remake) passes the Samaritan Test.

► Show Spoiler

If you help a wolf that's stuck in a beartrap near the start of the game, that wolf comes back to help you in a boss fight against the huge village ******.

It's not prompted by the game, as far as I know.

I think Rusty means that this mechanic used in gameplay more than one time, regularly.

[wndrbr]

Resident Evil 4 (the original, at least, no idea about the remake) passes the Samaritan Test.

► Show Spoiler

If you help a wolf that's stuck in a beartrap near the start of the game, that wolf comes back to help you in a boss fight against the huge village ******.

It's not prompted by the game, as far as I know.

the game does prompts you to help the wolf. When you walk close, a huge "HELP" prompt appears.

what Rusty was talking about is when a game has 'healing' or 'medicine' skill that you can use at any time without prompts. Like how in DivOS2 in Sanctuary of Amadia there's a bunch of wounded NPCs lying around in the camp. If you use "first aid" skill on them, you'll get some XP, and those wounded npcs will thank you.

[rusty_shackleford]

what Rusty was talking about is when a game has 'healing' or 'medicine' skill that you can use at any time without prompts.

Not necessarily exclusive to this. e.g., the Arcanum one is probably a good example if my memory isn't too fuzzy.

[wndrbr]

Some of the Fallout 2 engine total-conversions reward you for tagging First aid/Doctor skill by having a bunch of wounded/ill NPCs in the world. The game doesn't say "this guy is wounded, use Doctor skill 50/40?", but if you try using them you'll get some free xp and a reputation bonus.

Sonora definitely had quite a lot of those 'doctor/first aid' skillchecks in the world. Don't remember if Nevada had them. There was a sidequest where you're required to use your medical skills to help an injun medicine man to operate on a boy with fractured legs, but it's an actual sidequest so idk if you can count it as 'unprompted'.

[Faceless_Sentinel]

@rusty_shackleford you should add that this mechanics must be used regularly in gameplay, otherwise one time events makes any game reactive.

[rusty_shackleford]

what Rusty was talking about is when a game has 'healing' or 'medicine' skill that you can use at any time without prompts.

Not necessarily exclusive to this. e.g., the Arcanum one is probably a good example if my memory isn't too fuzzy.

but it's more about the intent behind the design rather than it specifically being about helping someone. Games that enable this tend to be designed around the player actually being proactive and interacting with the world rather than waiting for the game to tell them what to do.


I'll post about this again later after I've had my nap

[Acrux]

I'll post about this again later after I've had my nap

Time for you to post about this again.

[rusty_shackleford]

I'll post about this again later after I've had my nap

Time for you to post about this again.

Directly relates to viewtopic.php?t=3550-being-able-to-kill ... yer-agency

[NotAI]

At this point, if we want a game about, e.g., functional pockets, we have to make it a "core feature", and build a game around it. I'm up to the challenge

Pitch.
Title: Lord Bim (not to be confused with Lord Jim)
Alt Title: Super Passersby
Alt Title: Garbage Agent
Alt Title: Pocket Agent

Bim the Wizard is a professional Garbage Collector who cleans the mean streets of Shittown (think Ireland 1830, but there is magic and stuff) by picking up trash and invisibly putting it into the pockets of passersby, preferably Traveling Merchants (you get more XP), since they will leave Shittown with the trash and leave the place a little less ******. After the player cleans up Shittown, they get promoted by Governor John Fatcock and sent as Garbage Agent to the Capital city of Pigsty, which has a short time limit to put all the trash onto various NPCs before the Queen's wedding. Bim will be executed by the Governor if he fails. Before that, there will be a cutscene of him being screwed by a horse while in the pillory, social realism about cruel and unusual punishment in the Dark Ages. Bad Ending.

NPCs become angry and challenge the player to a dual if the player gets caught shoving rotting bits of salmon in newspaper into their inventories and they happen to really dislike salmon, etc.

There's other kinds of magic. "Fireball!" for in case of a duel, etc.

NPCs can eventually check their inventories and react to what is there, such as throw it back onto the street, or try to give it to somebody else.

Rat People, for example, will eat spoiled food you managed to put in their inventories. Orcs will search for you, and try to fight. Humans will just throw it out and go to the nearest bathe. The player can put more trash into their inventory while they are at bathe. The pockets or inventory is in what the NPC wears.

Depending on what Bim puts in somebody's pocket, he gets side quests and dialogue, because why not. Emergent gameplay based on combinations of side quests, all which have hooks built in so in most combinations they can interact.

If you succeed, Bim is Knighted as a Hero of Socialist Labor, as Baron Trash. He goes to his rightful place, sitting in the House of Heroic Lords. Good Ending.

[Rand]

Neverwinter Nights: Shadows of the Undrentide

"the" ?

[TKVNC]

Now I think on it, M&B Warband does both of these too.

Anything someone is wearing can be looted from them if you win in a fight, though there is an element of randomness - I suppose to account for the semi-RNG nature of general troop equipment.

Lords gear can be looted from them after victory with admittedly, very low odds. You can also change their gear and it stays that way through certain dialogue.

As for Good Samaritan, helping people increases / decreases their reputation (depending on personality), and they do remember it, in cases of lords, at least.

You can use this to make friends, who will help you even in fights they have no actual stake in.

[AmericanMonarchist]

Over time and after playing many games, I have come to the conclusion that you can judge whether a game cares about creating a reactive and convincing gameworld by two tests. I wanted to make a list of games that pass these tests.

---

Good Samaritan Test

The game acknowledges that you helped a character without being explicitly prompted to do so, and it rewards or reacts to your action in a meaningful way. However, the initial action must not be presented as a clear option by the game.

"Rusty's Good Samaritan Test" = The game acknowledges that you helped a character without any prior request to do so, and it must not be in the form of a dialogue option. I first came up with it during Shadows of Undrentide for NWN, there's some NPCs I saw that were injured and I healed them, and the game acknowledged it, and rewarded me for it. There was nothing that prompted me to do so, or anything to suggest you'd get something in return for it. The game just expected you to pay attention to what's happening, and involve yourself in the game world.

This often appears in highly reactive games, where player actions outside the main story path still have meaningful outcomes. The idea is that the game expects you to engage with the world proactively. If the game explicitly tells you to do it, it doesn't count. This can take shape in many forms e.g., deciding to intervene to save someone who would have died without your help is equally valid, as long as you aren't told or prompted to do so and it's not required to progress the game.

Spoiler gameplay examples!

• Neverwinter Nights: Shadows of the Undrentide
• ATOM RPG
• Wasteland 3
• Divinity: Original Sin 2
• Baldur's Gate 3
• Seven: Days Long Gone

---

Functional Pockets Test

This test ensures that items in the gameworld are persistent, meaning if you give an item to an NPC, it is tracked in their inventory. Conversely, if an NPC has an item, you should be able to steal or obtain it by other means.

To pass this test, the game must attempt to simulate items actually existing in the gameworld. This means that if you give an item to an NPC, it goes into their inventory in some form(e.g., a shopkeeper may place it into a storage chest.) If an NPC gives you an item, you could have instead stolen or obtained it from their person in another form, and the item must have existed prior to the NPC giving it to you, and must be removed from where it was taken from.
Simulating items only for NPC companions is not enough to pass this test.

► Example of Failure

As an example of a failure, there is a quest in early Deadfire that has you acquire a coinpurse. Before it was patched, you could obtain the same item multiple times because the game does not attempt to simulate item persistence.
From the Deadfire wiki:

Pickpocket the pouch from Mokeha (easiest at night, in her home). Before patch 3.1.0 this even worked after you'd convinced her to hand it over peacefully. You ended up with two pouches in your inventory, although taking money from the two pouches only gave you one pouch worth. However, finishing the quest first used up one pouch, leaving you the other pouch to loot later. After patch 3.1.0 there is only one pouch to go around, if you already have it you can't see it on Mokeha anymore when you pickpocket her.

Even after fixing this issue, it does not go on this list. It is not actually attempting to simulate item persistence, but using some cheap 'stagecraft', for lack of a better term.

• Most Bethesda games.
• Most Larian games.
• Seven: Days Long Gone

Bethesda games aren't on the Samaritan test, and tend to end up feeling very sterile and having little reactivity.

Skyrim passes a "reverse" Samaritan test. If you drop a valuable item on the ground, there is a chance an NPC will pick it up and return it to you. Took me a few hundred hours to find that out.