What makes Kingdom Come: Deliverance an RPG?

[rusty_shackleford]

we were having some DEEPTHINKS in chat, and i wanted to move it to the forum.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I know it when I see it.

KCD is an RPG.


EDIT: more specifically, RPG is a certain genre that we lop a few types of gameplay experiences in, and those experiences are not the same as other genres.

The consensus is that Ultima, Final Fantasy, Diablo, Warcraft, Elder Scrolls, STALKER, etc, are RPGs. Only real commonality between them is character building, and the context of going on a fantasy adventure and talking to NPCs. We consider these different from Call of Duty, which is a shooter with some "character building" as in what weapons you equip, but there is no talking to NPCs or adventuring through a world. It is just shooting people in levels and then resetting. We consider RPGs different from Terraria, which yes has RPG elements with the character building and talking to NPCs, but is primarily about dying over and over and going through randomly generated levels (I suppose a little similar to Diablo but that is supposed to be more traditional, as in you are not supposed to die over and over in Diablo). And so on. It is hard to define these loose collections of ideas as an RPG. The genre is more defined by what it is not, what we do not consider to be under that label.

[Xenich]

Is the game dependent on the characters development to succeed?

That is, do you have to develop the skills of the character in order to progress and beat the game, or can you simply beat the game starting level, no armor, no skills, etc...?

I think that is one of the main keys to it being an RPG.

For example, Elden Ring, while having RPG features does not need it and can be beaten with a starting character, no development required, ie... action/arcade game.

[Vaako]

I would define a good rpg more that you have multiple solutions to achieve your objective without only having the option to fail or succeed. KCD had some I think. During the main quest you had to infiltrate that monastery without any gear to find out who the person is you are looking for to kill. Or you could just break in at night and murder everyone when they slept. Or you do save scumming until you find the right guy and the quest objective is achieved. No need to do the stupid monastery quest legit. Worse games have that npc just immortal until you find the right clue who the guy is. Archolos mod has that a lot sadly, so many quest related npcs you cant kill or rob. Just once by accident I shot a named guard from harbour wall into water and I also got a morrowind type of message when a mainquest npc got killed. But still better than immortal npcs.

[Yankee Zulu]

I finished this game once and I felt dissapointed. Its probably good as a historical czech medival life simulator but as a video game and an RPG at that its not good. Actually its just bad.

[Tweed]

It's a great game and anyone who doesn't like it is a closet homo and probably pagan too.

Also, it's an RPG.

[logincrash]

I once watched a video on historical movie inaccuracies and it was talking about the Gladiator or the 300 or one of those Ancient Greek/Rome movies. The one inaccuracy that stuck with me to the point of being distracting while playing this game is the fact that the roads wouldn't have untouched grass between two wheel tracks because horses would trample it down. And so every road you see in the game looks like this:

With two tracks clearly made by a modern (as in no horses) car.
And, considering how touted the game is for its historical accuracy, this tiny fact took me out of the game word every time I spotted one of those roads. It was clear that the environment was scanned from modern photos of locations.
All of that said, this game is as much an RPG as the Witcher games are.

[rusty_shackleford]

I once watched a video on historical movie inaccuracies and it was talking about the Gladiator or the 300 or one of those Ancient Greek/Rome movies. The one inaccuracy that stuck with me to the point of being distracting while playing this game is the fact that the roads wouldn't have untouched grass between two wheel tracks because horses would trample it down. And so every road you see in the game looks like this:

With two tracks clearly made by a modern (as in no horses) car.
And, considering how touted the game is for its historical accuracy, this tiny fact took me out of the game word every time I spotted one of those roads. It was clear that the environment was scanned from modern photos of locations.
All of that said, this game is as much an RPG as the Witcher games are.

Akshually, I just so happen to be one of a handful of people in the world that know the exact specific answer to this post regarding KCD. I asked one of the developers what changes were made after hiring historians, and fixing the roads was one of them. Including the exact specific point you brought up.


Hope that helps you enjoy the game more.

[Jordy]

I once watched a video on historical movie inaccuracies and it was talking about the Gladiator or the 300 or one of those Ancient Greek/Rome movies. The one inaccuracy that stuck with me to the point of being distracting while playing this game is the fact that the roads wouldn't have untouched grass between two wheel tracks because horses would trample it down. And so every road you see in the game looks like this:

With two tracks clearly made by a modern (as in no horses) car.
And, considering how touted the game is for its historical accuracy, this tiny fact took me out of the game word every time I spotted one of those roads. It was clear that the environment was scanned from modern photos of locations.
All of that said, this game is as much an RPG as the Witcher games are.

300 is based on a comic that's not trying to be historically accurate. Unless you mean the Kirk Douglas version The 300 Spartans.

[logincrash]

Akshually, I just so happen to be one of a handful of people in the world that know the exact specific answer to this post regarding KCD. I asked one of the developers what changes were made after hiring historians, and fixing the roads was one of them. Including the exact specific point you brought up.


Hope that helps you enjoy the game more.

Hmm, interesting. I swear I've seen enough of the modern roads for it to stick in my memory. Was that a post-launch change or during development?

300 is based on a comic that's not trying to be historically accurate. Unless you mean the Kirk Douglas version The 300 Spartans.

I've watched that video like 15 years ago, so I don't recall which movie they were talking about. I remember there being fields of grain, and those two movies had them and were in the same-ish historical setting.
I suppose I could've worded my sentence a bit differently. The video wasn't about inaccuracies in historical movies, but about historical inaccuracies in movies.

[rusty_shackleford]

Hmm, interesting. I swear I've seen enough of the modern roads for it to stick in my memory. Was that a post-launch change or during development?

change made during development

[logincrash]

Hmm, interesting. I swear I've seen enough of the modern roads for it to stick in my memory. Was that a post-launch change or during development?

change made during development

Is my memory going already? I guess I'll try it out again. I've got a better PC now, so might as well enjoy the game to its fullest.
Well done, Rusty. You've convinced me to give the game another go.

[Yankee Zulu]

Who the **** cares about roads? Is this a truck driver simulator or something? Its 15th century and this ******* game doesnt have crossbows! Polearms? Spears? Not allowed. Firearms? Go back to ******* China you filthy *****. Its high Europe here.

Thats the problem with this game. It allegedly cares so much about historical accuracy but the gameplay issues are ignored.

[rusty_shackleford]

Who the **** cares about roads? Is this a truck driver simulator or something? Its 15th century and this ******* game doesnt have crossbows! Polearms? Spears? Not allowed. Firearms? Go back to ******* China you filthy *****. Its high Europe here.

Thats the problem with this game. It allegedly cares so much about historical accuracy but the gameplay issues are ignored.

Firearms were incredibly rare in this area before the Hussite wars, which is the next game.
Crossbows were originally intended but cut.

[wndrbr]

also polearms are in the game, you just can't put them in your inventory because it's an unfinished content they are too big.

[Jordy]

I started this game last night and rage quit when I couldn't beat the thieving **** in a fist fight.

[rusty_shackleford]

I started this game last night and rage quit when I couldn't beat the thieving **** in a fist fight.

The first 3-4 hours are very cinematic, at one point I forgot I was playing a game and not watching an HBO show.

[Jordy]

I started this game last night and rage quit when I couldn't beat the thieving **** in a fist fight.

The first 3-4 hours are very cinematic, at one point I forgot I was playing a game and not watching an HBO show.

It got quite a few votes in the RPG Ranking thread and I'd never heard of ir before so figured I'd pick it up when it was on sale. Haven't got far enough in to judge it yet. I like the style so far, not sure about the combat.

[rusty_shackleford]

I started this game last night and rage quit when I couldn't beat the thieving **** in a fist fight.

The first 3-4 hours are very cinematic, at one point I forgot I was playing a game and not watching an HBO show.

It got quite a few votes in the RPG Ranking thread and I'd never heard of ir before so figured I'd pick it up when it was on sale. Haven't got far enough in to judge it yet. I like the style so far, not sure about the combat.

Just stick with it, the opening isn't really representative of the rest of the game.

[Tweed]

I started this game last night and rage quit when I couldn't beat the thieving **** in a fist fight.

He couldn't beat Kunesh.

Ngmi.

[rusty_shackleford]

I started this game last night and rage quit when I couldn't beat the thieving **** in a fist fight.

He couldn't beat Kunesh.

Ngmi.

I thought he was referring to the unwinnable fight

[Jordy]

I started this game last night and rage quit when I couldn't beat the thieving **** in a fist fight.

He couldn't beat Kunesh.

Ngmi.

I'm just going to never play it again and assume that you find out later in the game that he's actually the fist fighting champion of all the land who's trying to lead a quiet life as a thieving beggar.

[Tweed]

I started this game last night and rage quit when I couldn't beat the thieving **** in a fist fight.

He couldn't beat Kunesh.

Ngmi.

I thought he was referring to the unwinnable fight

He said fist fight.

[Tweed]

I'm just going to never play it again and assume that you find out later in the game that he's actually the fist fighting champion of all the land who's trying to lead a quiet life as a thieving beggar.

Newsflash: You're the son of a blacksmith and a slacker. Of course a woodcutter is going to have an upper hand on you, but you can still beat Kunesh in the fist fight. In fact fist fighting is one of the best parts of the game. Although honestly it's not the best way of dealing with the situation in my opinion.

Also, no. You'll meet much better fighters in side tasks and get a bit of money for fighting them.

[Jordy]

I'm just going to never play it again and assume that you find out later in the game that he's actually the fist fighting champion of all the land who's trying to lead a quiet life as a thieving beggar.

Newsflash: You're the son of a blacksmith and a slacker. Of course a woodcutter is going to have an upper hand on you, but you can still beat Kunesh in the fist fight. In fact fist fighting is one of the best parts of the game. Although honestly it's not the best way of dealing with the situation in my opinion.

Also, no. You'll meet much better fighters in side tasks and get a bit of money for fighting them.

Violence is always the answer.

[rusty_shackleford]

It's a game about being a good Christian.

Tweed failed at that.

[Tweed]

Violence is always the answer.

You're going to reload a lot.

[Tweed]

It's a game about being a good Christian.

Tweed failed at that.

[Yankee Zulu]

Who the **** cares about roads? Is this a truck driver simulator or something? Its 15th century and this ******* game doesnt have crossbows! Polearms? Spears? Not allowed. Firearms? Go back to ******* China you filthy *****. Its high Europe here.

Thats the problem with this game. It allegedly cares so much about historical accuracy but the gameplay issues are ignored.

Firearms were incredibly rare in this area before the Hussite wars, which is the next game.
Crossbows were originally intended but cut.

Keep coping. Its just an example and this game is full of it. Its a bad video game, not much else to add here.

Ankther point - every 'settlement' in this game is as dwad as a graveyard. The towns in Gothic 1 and 2 looked and felt livelier than this desert. Im not even talking about cities from Withcer 3. Hell even cities in a ******* black desert MMO are masterpiece compared to this drying paint on the wall. And dont give me that **** 'MAH realism'. This is a ******* videogame first not a simulator.

[Tweed]

Keep coping. Its just an example and this game is full of it. Its a bad video game, not much else to add here.

Ankther point - every 'settlement' in this game is as dwad as a graveyard. The towns in Gothic 1 and 2 looked and felt livelier than this desert. Im not even talking about cities from Withcer 3. Hell even cities in a ******* black desert MMO are masterpiece compared to this drying paint on the wall. And dont give me that **** 'MAH realism'. This is a ******* videogame first not a simulator.

Don't you have more gatcha **** to promote?