Sling: Most underrepresented weapon in RPGs?

[rusty_shackleford]

Slings were used for millennia in warfare, yet are completely absent in near most fantasy RPGs. Other than BG1, I'm struggling to think of any games where it makes a prominent appearance, and even there it's just "OK".
Do you think a sling would have an advantage over a bow at the ranges typical RPG combat happens at?

[Magick]

Armour helps. **** and Rocks are plentiful. Range and aiming is ok. Likely high skill barrier and potential to injure the user, though.

However they are pretty ******* powerful. Both the "sling" and "slingshot" types. Simply watch the Slingshot Channel (have to scroll back a lot as he's into bows and other **** nowadays lol) to see the level of destruction they're capable of.

It's cool BG1 has slings but I kinda hate how wizards are sat using ******* SLINGS most of the time. It just doesn't fit. For other classes though (especially ranger or rogue types) sure!
As to RPGs, presumably because most combat is single or small groups, rather than armies at a distance. And they're not as "cool".

[rusty_shackleford]

Come to think of it, this seems like a perfect example of where "dex" in RPGs should affect damage output — much of the accuracy/speed of the thrown stone is from technique.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Other than BG1, I'm struggling to think of any games where it makes a prominent appearance

You can get an optional character in The Banner Saga 3 who uses a sling. One of her abilities is to hurl a magical explosive rock that will detonate like a mine if enemy units step on it.

Do you think a sling would have an advantage over a bow at the ranges typical RPG combat happens at?

A rock should be more effective than an arrow against many enemies, ie against a stoneman which arrows would bounce off of but a rock might be able to crack. It would also be easier to scavenge for rock ammunition anywhere you go, whereas with arrows you would only be able to get more if you had enough time to pull them out of the battlefield, otherwise you have to wait until you meet up with a merchant or a quartermaster to get replenished.

Another advantage is that a sling would be an easily concealable weapon in case your characters are captured. It could be disguised as a bandana or something. Whereas bows would be confiscated.

[Gregz]

Halfling Slingers were OP in Master of Magic.

[Tweed]

Slings are prominent in Ultima

[Magick]

Other than BG1, I'm struggling to think of any games where it makes a prominent appearance

You can get an optional character in The Banner Saga 3 who uses a sling. One of her abilities is to hurl a magical explosive rock that will detonate like a mine if enemy units step on it.

Do you think a sling would have an advantage over a bow at the ranges typical RPG combat happens at?

A rock should be more effective than an arrow against many enemies, ie against a stoneman which arrows would bounce off of but a rock might be able to crack. It would also be easier to scavenge for rock ammunition anywhere you go, whereas with arrows you would only be able to get more if you had enough time to pull them out of the battlefield, otherwise you have to wait until you meet up with a merchant or a quartermaster to get replenished.

Another advantage is that a sling would be an easily concealable weapon in case your characters are captured. It could be disguised as a bandana or something. Whereas bows would be confiscated.

I also liked how it had bugger all weight, in BG1. Ofc the rocks do, but you don't need to carry those everywhere, just pick them up as needed.
Tbh if trained how to use it, it is a very nice backup weapon. Small, light, compact, plentiful ammo. No reason not to keep one if know how to use.
Wizard shouldn't be sat slinging though, that's ******* stupid and due to D&D's ******** spell mechanics. When OOM or wanting to conserve "big" spells and don't want to get close to clonk with a staff/shortsword, that's where the gay twinkie wands come in for a little pewpew.
Imagine trying to use a sling in big flappy robes, lol..

[Acrux]

Conventional wisdom is that slings are the best ranged weapon in the Infinity Engine games because of STR bonus to damage and they are one-handed so you can use a shield. But, they only get 1 attack per round (unless there's a special one I don't remember). So good for a high strength mage or cleric.

[Hauberk]

Some thoughts on the subject after having researched historical examples, made a couple of slings and used them a little on passing sjws mundane targets:

Some weapons are inherently more or less accurate than others. Meaning more or less easy to use. By experience you can remove this inaccuarcy and thus, become an accurate and effective combatant. If I were to rate various ranged weapons in order to design a role-playing game system, I'd put down slings as being the most easy to miss with, followed by bows, followed by crossbows and possibly early guns thereafter or at the same place as the last.

So I'm not really talking about how far you could shoot here (a sling can outrange bows, crossbows and guns) but rather how easy it is to hit a man-sized target or smaller. Striking something once is fine but being able to replicate that many times over is being accurate. When it comes to a sling, there are several factors which come into play which the skill of the caster must overcome to hit the target. You have the length of the sling, with longer slings being able cast further and shorter slings being easier to hit with and require less space when casting. Then you have the ammunition choice. A stone needs to be the right size and shape, and if you want to be consistent, the same size and shape as each other. Smooth round stones shaped by water have better aerodynamics than jagged, flat ones. Historical slingers used glandes made from clay or lead when they weren't using stones. If the projectile is consistently formed you know what to expect and can thus be more accurate.

Here's a site which contained good information, at least in the past: http://www.slinging.org/

With bows, you don't have a sight (unless you're an olympic shooter), so you have to overcome that inaccuracy with skill, just as when you're slinging. The arrows are aerodynamic and consistently formed so you won't have the same problem as someone slinging stones from the ground. With crossbows, it's even easier to aim consistently (even if you don't have a sight per se) so there's even less to overcome here in terms of accuracy consistency.

[J1M]

No, spears are the most underrepresented weapon in RPGs.

[rusty_shackleford]

No, spears are the most underrepresented weapon in RPGs.

Spears kinda suck at the scale of typical RPG combat tho

[J1M]

No, spears are the most underrepresented weapon in RPGs.

Spears kinda suck at the scale of typical RPG combat tho

But what if they didn't. What if it was the signature weapon of someone other than a FF dragoon.

What if you need a spear because enemies need to be staked like vampires. What if it is a great choice because of powerful passive talents. What if your spear is uniquely effective because it pierced the heart of Christ.

[rusty_shackleford]

No, spears are the most underrepresented weapon in RPGs.

Spears kinda suck at the scale of typical RPG combat tho

But what if they didn't. What if it was the signature weapon of someone other than a FF dragoon.

What if you need a spear because enemies need to be staked like vampires. What if it is a great choice because of powerful passive talents. What if the spear is uniquely effective because it pierced the heart of Christ.

tbh I can think of a lot of recent RPGs that do feature spears tho
Only one I can think of where they're actually unique rather than "melee weapon with different 3D model" is pillows of eternity, they're good for backline melee placed behind your frontline.

[J1M]

Spears kinda suck at the scale of typical RPG combat tho

But what if they didn't. What if it was the signature weapon of someone other than a FF dragoon.

What if you need a spear because enemies need to be staked like vampires. What if it is a great choice because of powerful passive talents. What if the spear is uniquely effective because it pierced the heart of Christ.

tbh I can think of a lot of recent RPGs that do feature spears tho

"Contain as a suboptimal stepping stone" is not the same as "you considered building your character around it" and "we bothered to give spears a different animation than blades".

[rusty_shackleford]

"Contain as a suboptimal stepping stone" is not the same as "you considered building your character around it" and "we bothered to give spears a different animation than blades".

This is most weapon "variety" in RPGs tho. Pillows got more right than some people want to admit, in my opinion anyways.

[UltraFan123]

In Neverwinter Nights 2, the sling was the only long-range weapon you could use alongside a shield and was also the only other one that used the Strength stat for damage alongside the composite longbow.

That particular CRPG also had both weapon creation and weapon enchantment mechanics so you could craft your own +5 flaming-shock-holy sling if you wanted to, but that game is the only example I can think of.

[DDC]

My first win on Tales of Maj Eyal (nightmare difficulty) was a sling character and he decimated everything. That was only my second game overall, first had been with an archer, and the sling was much stronger.

No, spears are the most underrepresented weapon in RPGs.

I knew Elder Scrolls would eventually turn to **** as soon as I loaded up Oblivion for the first time and saw that spears and medium armor were gone. I remember being unusually mad because that was my Morrowind kit. Made plenty of posts at the time about where the industry was heading with games being feature-stripped and dumbed down and the dangers of exploitative DLC, but they were generally met by hordes of midwit future redditoooors braying about "slippery slope logical fallacies," which aren't fallacies where incrementalism is a real danger.

One of the few things the new God of War game did right was including a viable spear.

[Acrux]

Only one I can think of where they're actually unique rather than "melee weapon with different 3D model" is pillows of eternity, they're good for backline melee placed behind your frontline.

The EE mod for IWD2 does the same thing with polearms. They all count as reach weapons so they can attack out a few more tiles.

[asf]

people eventually realize that the person using the sling is a

******

[Kalarion]

Slings were used for millennia in warfare, yet are completely absent in near most fantasy RPGs. Other than BG1, I'm struggling to think of any games where it makes a prominent appearance, and even there it's just "OK".
Do you think a sling would have an advantage over a bow at the ranges typical RPG combat happens at?

Battle for Wesnoth's rogue line uses slings. They're great against undead especially (ranged blunt damage). Sand Elves also use slings and bolas.

"Contain as a suboptimal stepping stone" is not the same as "you considered building your character around it" and "we bothered to give spears a different animation than blades".

Battle Brothers has spears, both standard range and reach (warfork), and longer polearms (pikes and billhooks). Each (spears and polearms) have their own weapon specialization, and spears in particular are very useful in a variety of scenarios. A spear-wielding tank brother can hold off entire waves of enemies indefinitely with a little luck. Very useful against undead (zombies) and massed Orc charges.

[TKVNC]

Slings were used for millennia in warfare, yet are completely absent in near most fantasy RPGs. Other than BG1, I'm struggling to think of any games where it makes a prominent appearance, and even there it's just "OK".
Do you think a sling would have an advantage over a bow at the ranges typical RPG combat happens at?

M&B Warband: Viking Conquest has Slings, and Staff Slings too, they play a very, very prominent role in the combat too, as Skirmishers should make up a significant portion of your force.

Interestingly, and something a lot of people forget is that the Roman Legionary was required to know how to sling, and always carried a sling, and a handful of projectiles; they arguably got more use as a ranged weapon than even their pila spears, likely more so than archery too.

It's very possible to instantly kill someone with a well placed sling shot, you don't even need to read the story of David and Golliath to know as much, there's a lot of evidence - even some evidence of Greek bronze-age helmets with sling lead shaped holes in them (one assumes the wearer died because of this).

Realistically, it follows a similar premise as spearmen, or arguably later billmen, they used tools or weapons (though a weapon is a tool) which they were familiar with from their agrarian background, shepherds with slings for example. It's far easier to drill people in infantry tactics if they do not need to spend undue time learning how to use their equipment as well -- besides, as others have said, small rocks are pretty plentiful, and a bag of purposely made sling lead is far easier to carry than a sheath of arrows.

[UltraFan123]

Slings were used for millennia in warfare, yet are completely absent in near most fantasy RPGs. Other than BG1, I'm struggling to think of any games where it makes a prominent appearance, and even there it's just "OK".
Do you think a sling would have an advantage over a bow at the ranges typical RPG combat happens at?

M&B Warband: Viking Conquest has Slings, and Staff Slings too, they play a very, very prominent role in the combat too, as Skirmishers should make up a significant portion of your force.

Interestingly, and something a lot of people forget is that the Roman Legionary was required to know how to sling, and always carried a sling, and a handful of projectiles; they arguably got more use as a ranged weapon than even their pila spears, likely more so than archery too.

It's very possible to instantly kill someone with a well placed sling shot, you don't even need to read the story of David and Golliath to know as much, there's a lot of evidence - even some evidence of Greek bronze-age helmets with sling lead shaped holes in them (one assumes the wearer died because of this).

Realistically, it follows a similar premise as spearmen, or arguably later billmen, they used tools or weapons (though a weapon is a tool) which they were familiar with from their agrarian background, shepherds with slings for example. It's far easier to drill people in infantry tactics if they do not need to spend undue time learning how to use their equipment as well -- besides, as others have said, small rocks are pretty plentiful, and a bag of purposely made sling lead is far easier to carry than a sheath of arrows.

Speaking of the Bronze Age, the sling also saw massive use in ancient Mesopotamia when an army was besieging a walled city, the soldiers would carry the slings and - because the city walls of that particular place and time period were usually made out of mud bricks - they would simply use the soil beneath their feet to craft sling bullets out of clay which were quite effective at damaging the walls.

This method ensured that the soldiers wouldn't carry extra bullet weight with them during the march to and from enemy cities since the ammunition was crafted and used on the spot.

[J1M]

Conventional wisdom is that slings are the best ranged weapon in the Infinity Engine games because of STR bonus to damage and they are one-handed so you can use a shield. But, they only get 1 attack per round (unless there's a special one I don't remember). So good for a high strength mage or cleric.

While I am open to the idea of STR ranged weapons, slings seem like one of the worst places to apply such an idea. Longbow would make a lot more sense.

Sling as a one-handed DEX/AGI ranged weapon could make sense.

[Shillitron]

Halfling Slingers were OP in Master of Magic.

and IWD2.
and NWN1 / NWN2 depending on module / feats.

[Element]

Spears kinda suck at the scale of typical RPG combat tho

But what if they didn't. What if it was the signature weapon of someone other than a FF dragoon.

What if you need a spear because enemies need to be staked like vampires. What if it is a great choice because of powerful passive talents. What if the spear is uniquely effective because it pierced the heart of Christ.

tbh I can think of a lot of recent RPGs that do feature spears tho
Only one I can think of where they're actually unique rather than "melee weapon with different 3D model" is pillows of eternity, they're good for backline melee placed behind your frontline.

Dungeon Rats

As for slings, iirc they're ok in Battle Brothers early game.

[rusty_shackleford]

Slings should be an olympic sport.

[Yankee Zulu]

Drova has a sling as a fully fledged weapon. The first ranged weapon you get in that game. I didnt go far in Drova though so cant say how it is in late game.

[J1M]

Slings should be an olympic sport.

The olympics is so gay that they would let you hold a robot that does the throw perfectly each time.

[Brugmans]

How do you do sling progression? It's easy to design a bow that's better and more powerful looking than the previous one, but slings seem inherently plain in comparison.
Do you do projectile progression instead, like rock -> pebble -> lead missile -> runic stone etc?

[rusty_shackleford]

How do you do sling progression? It's easy to design a bow that's better and more powerful looking than the previous one, but slings seem inherently plain in comparison.
Do you do projectile progression instead, like rock -> pebble -> lead missile -> runic stone etc?