Pantheon: EA Release

[Xenich]

@rusty_shackleford, are planning on playing? You said you refunded, then said you picked it up again... so not sure.

You still playing a summoner or are you considering something else?

I am pretty sure we could duo a fair amount and groups shouldn't be an issue, people are pretty cool so far on this server.

Let me know.

[Xenich]

So, level 6 monks get an attack that heals them for the damage they do (15 second cool down). Add in the block stance that has increased block (30%) plus a reactive that increases threat, well... looks like monks are like they were in release EQ, with some at least light tanking utils.


Just noticed that "mastery" is not implemented yet either, so I guess that is another layer to the development yet to be revealed.

So far, the three bars will be specific to certain types of skills (limited to that bars slots).

For me, I have..

Bar 1: Iron hand (basic damage skill)
Bar 2: Chi Guidance (opens up weaknesses on a cool down)
Bar 3:
Wandering fist (normal attack + reactive based on the stance, default non-stance reactive is a evasion ability)
Soul Shuriken (ranged attack)
Chi Spear (ranged attack)
Resonating Strike (Damage, heals damage done)

Gates (ie stances): 5 Total, currently have Gate of Anger which opens a agro skill reactive with Wandering fist.

For 6 levels, has a hell of a lot more than EQ did, and it copies Vanguard a lot more on this (I think the healing thing was a monk ability in vanguard)

[Finarfin]

More than 40 bucks?? ****, hope it has enough content to warrant the price ( No subscription either right?)

[Xenich]

More than 40 bucks?? ****, hope it has enough content to warrant the price ( No subscription either right?)

More? Was 39 bucks last I checked.

If you are looking for a bang for buck... full content, etc... I would hold off.

There is a lot to do and learn, obviously with slow progression (the zones are huge) and you can get to level 40, but it won't be tons of zones (6 I think currently) and there is still a lot missing, so again... expectations very low right now.

For what it is, its a blast IMO.

[Finarfin]

More than 40 bucks?? ****, hope it has enough content to warrant the price ( No subscription either right?)

More? Was 39 bucks last I checked.

If you are looking for a bang for buck... full content, etc... I would hold off.

There is a lot to do and learn, obviously with slow progression (the zones are huge) and you can get to level 40, but it won't be tons of zones (6 I think currently) and there is still a lot missing, so again... expectations very low right now.

For what it is, its a blast IMO.

Ah right, it is 39 bucks.

No subscription already makes it better than most MMOs. Slow progression is fine if I get to do various things instead of 100x collect this or kill this quests.

[Xenich]

More than 40 bucks?? ****, hope it has enough content to warrant the price ( No subscription either right?)

More? Was 39 bucks last I checked.

If you are looking for a bang for buck... full content, etc... I would hold off.

There is a lot to do and learn, obviously with slow progression (the zones are huge) and you can get to level 40, but it won't be tons of zones (6 I think currently) and there is still a lot missing, so again... expectations very low right now.

For what it is, its a blast IMO.

Ah right, it is 39 bucks.

No subscription already makes it better than most MMOs. Slow progression is fine if I get to do various things instead of 100x collect this or kill this quests.

No sub because it is EA. Initially the goal was Sub + Expansion, still may, but they haven't settled because it will depend on how things turn out. So... keep that in mind as well.

Reality is, for this type of game, you don't want FTP gimmicks or stores. It will have an effect on game design in the long run (ie see DDO).

Also, like I said.. it took 10 years and kind of wasted too much time chasing graphics (only to scrap them and go back to something like it is now), trying to pander hard to mainstream possibilities, combined with a bunch of drama, losing people, funding issues, etc... over the years and this... is what they got (which is not much considering the time they have on it).

The game is EQ/Vanguard focused in MAJOR ways from the blatant to the subtle elements that people are not used to.

So, if you are not familiar with EQ style of play, the hardships, the difficulties, the "inconveniences" then certainly make sure you are up for this style of play first before you buy.

1. Lots of down time.
2. Very social based game (ie need to group a lot, rely on others, etc...)
3. Corpse runs (bag left on corpse, keep your gear, lose exp), you will run a lot of if you die a lot.
4. Dark nights... no really DARK NIGHTS (can't see crap at all in some places, pitch black if you don't have your torch up).
5. Typical mixed zones of high and low level mobs in a lot of areas (especially at night).
6. Slow progression, slow travel, etc... running, a lot... especially if you die a lot.
7. still technically Pre-Alpha state, and 2 years out for its development release goal (from what I hear), so expect lots of bugs, things broken, missing, etc...

There is a lot more, but you get the idea.

[rusty_shackleford]

It uses resolution scaling at all performance levels, btw.

[GhostCow]

I want so bad for this game to be good, but I just don't see them finishing it. They are desperately clinging to life when they should have given up years ago. Also the art style sucks and some of the mechanics are a dumb waste of dev time, like weather acclimation

[WaterMage]

Honestly, I wish that we had more UIltima Online clones instead of so many EQ/WoW clones...

[Xenich]

I want so bad for this game to be good, but I just don't see them finishing it. They are desperately clinging to life when they should have given up years ago. Also the art style sucks and some of the mechanics are a dumb waste of dev time, like weather acclimation

Yeah, the acclimation system was kind of odd when Brad first mentioned, I agree.. I didn't really find it that interesting.

Art isn't bad for me, seems to grow on ya (at least for me), but like I said... don't care about that so much.

They seem to be regularly patching, so who knows.

They need content though. The zones are fairly good size (what I have seen so far) and feel pretty good, but they really need to release with something like at the minimum 20-30+ more zones and what, in 2 years? hmm...

Though who knows... maybe now that they aren't fiddling constantly with stupid graphic overhauls, they can get somewhere. Remains to be seen.

Climbing is fun though and I do like how the monk works so far.

[Xenich]

I gotta say, my OCD really missed EQ skills. I spent the better part of play the other night just climbing, swimming, sprinting, etc... trying to get my skills to cap before I continued leveling.

This also brings in my objection to some things. The 1 - 5 game needs to be a lot slower, it is way too fast and it shows because skills start to fall behind quickly. Combat skills stay fairly consistent with level, but non-combat ones fall behind and can't be kept up reasonably through normal play, hence "skill leveling" them, which I don't mind, but leveling speed at that level is too fast, but I guess it is there to get the newer MMO players feeling like they are accomplishing something at start. There are no death penalties till 5 as well, so modern noob mechanic I guess.

Though like EQ, this was a problem, but the level progression was slow, so if you just worked on them off and on in play or when you were out and around, you could keep them up fairly well.

Key though with this game atm is to work on skills hard in the first 5 levels (ie sprint everywhere, take a break on each level and swim, sprint, climb, etc...) and it should reduce the headache of trying to pull them up AFTER you are 5 levels up.


They do need an "exit the water" animation, right now you jump out of water and are still in the horizontal swim animation which looks ********. Also, careful on swimming, it doesn't look like it is fully focused on atm, so if you swim down to a deep place and die, there are bugs with getting your corpse without a summon.

Climbing though, I am really liking. The zones are well done and lots of hidden areas are up cliffs, secret cave entrances, cliff tops, etc... (be careful of mobs as you can top a cliff and run into a bunch of very high level mobs). This dynamic is also nice for travel (I can cut off a lot of time in some areas by climbing if my skill is up and climbing isn't "designated" (ie most places you can just climb, even various walls and bridge supports, etc...). I would tune falling damage to give climbing more risk, but anytime I mention this, it is met with "Oh yes, please... make the game more realistic... I want to spend hours dying on everything" complaints. Again, this game will be better with a tuned "old school" server on those points. I hope there are enough of us old guys who enjoyed those mechanics to see it happen.

There is also a "chest" mechanic in the game as well where some drops are kept in a chest guarded by a group of mobs, or just hidden somewhere up in the middle of nowhere hard to get that has a random chance of spawning (I don't think it is consistent).

The more I play, the more variations in different concepts I see pop up, so while it is strongly EQ/Vanguard, there is enough variation to have that new feel and twist to things.

[Xenich]

Also, hit level 7... monk has a lot more to it than I knew. While some abilities you pick up at a trainer, others unlock as your skills get higher (ie a message says "You have learned a new ability" and by looking at the skill, it has a requirement like "block 18 required") so that is an interesting layer on top of things for skills. These abilities have different mechanics as well such a concussive blow (which is a spell/ability interrupt).

In how the monk works, there is a lot of interaction with the abilities that makes using them at certain times far more important than spamming them.

The monk heal is actually very nice so far, though I am unsure if it will be something practical down the road and just more of an aid (kind like mend).

Overall, just like EQ skills are key in your abilities. I noticed a definite improvement by getting them up over all. I focused on capping Block, parry, defense and evade and my survival increased dramatically, so like EQ, you will be able to tell quickly the people who PL'd up and suck at everything, making them much less effective in combat.

[Xenich]

Night is dark... very dark.

Here is a screen with torch and no torch:

► Show Spoiler

Screenshot (22).jpg

Screenshot (23).jpg

[rusty_shackleford]

it's quite simple:
if you want an innovative, FUN game with actual design and thought put into its world, play Project Gorgon
if you want to sit in one area killing a mob that respawns over and over, play pantheon

[rusty_shackleford]

it's quite simple:
if you want an innovative, FUN game with actual design and thought put into its world, play Project Gorgon
if you want to sit in one area killing a mob that respawns over and over, play pantheon

you can also get it for $10 right now instead of $40 for a pre-alpha btw

[Xenich]

Sure, if you like that... go play that.. Have fun... Enjoy, I don't particularly want that style though.

More power to ya!

[Xenich]

it's quite simple:
if you want an innovative, FUN game with actual design and thought put into its world, play Project Gorgon
if you want to sit in one area killing a mob that respawns over and over, play pantheon

you can also get it for $10 right now instead of $40 for a pre-alpha btw

Not to poopoo on the game, nor have I looked to see if Pantheon has this issue, I hope not, but... is this true?

Capture.PNG

I hope not, because while I don't care for some aspects, I still think it might be interesting to play a bit.

[rusty_shackleford]

it's quite simple:
if you want an innovative, FUN game with actual design and thought put into its world, play Project Gorgon
if you want to sit in one area killing a mob that respawns over and over, play pantheon

you can also get it for $10 right now instead of $40 for a pre-alpha btw

Not to poopoo on the game, nor have I looked to see if Pantheon has this issue, I hope not, but... is this true?



I hope not, because while I don't care for some aspects, I still think it might be interesting to play a bit.

elves are disgusting degenerates, the humans even tell you to stay away from them

[Xenich]

Sure, if you like that... go play that.. Have fun... Enjoy, I don't particularly want that style though.

More power to ya!

not sure what you are disagreeing with here @rusty_shackleford ?

[Xenich]

Rusty is dipping into the eggnog again...

[Xenich]

Ok @rusty_shackleford , I am heading off to go camp mobs in a single spot for hours on end, if you would like to join me in my dull boring game, let me know.

[GhostCow]

Gorgon has bad rhythm game combat. I assume Pantheon is more like EQ instead of constantly smashing skills?

[Xenich]

Gorgon has bad rhythm game combat. I assume Pantheon is more like EQ instead of constantly smashing skills?

umm... more like vanguard than EQ (mix). Still hit skills more than EQ, but if you spam them, you will miss out on a lot of the power of using them situationally and when needed.

Nothing like WoW though where you are playing guitar hero. They all have cooldowns as well, so they won't cycle super fast.

Was just looking at them, most are around 10-15+ second cooldowns, and a couple debuffs on 5 seconds for the monk.

Ok, one damage "Iron Fist" is on a 5 second, but some of these skills eat "readiness" (think spell bar fills up on normal combat) so if you spam it, or some others... you will drain all your readiness and then they won't be available at times you need them (ie interrupts, silences, debuffs, etc...)

[Xenich]

Ok, nearing 10, combat is fleshing out pretty well, lots of options in play with the abilities and I would say it still has a long way to go in what they plan to add.

Crafting is enjoyable, they broke up the process (lots of multi-stage creation of items from base components up to the actual creation).

I would say most things that you see are "place holders", from the UI, the crafting system, etc...

From what I have gathered, they are about 15-20% done with the game (Yeah, I know... WTF?), so we will see how this pans out. So far, patches have been consistent and attentive to player feedback.

There are numerous little systems throughout the worlds play. From many scripted events (ie specific mobs running through areas... to day and night cycles causing drastic changes in the types of mobs and behavior, as well as NPCs having schedules during this).

The questing system is obviously basic, but it also looks "place holder" like, especially with the talk of how the "perception" system is going to tie in.

Things I don't like:

1. Death penalty

Having bags only stay on corpse severely reduces risk on the exploration front, I can prep and then run out without any real fear, which makes for instance a solo dungeon mission to take down a mob for an item no risk outside of exp loss which I think is too low (currently 1/2 a bubble). It has been a while, but EQ loss was very dramatic, I think around a 1/3 of your level I want to say. Combine this with bag only, and it creates issues in key aspects of play, especially with other factors (see below).

2. Mobs do leash.

Not like WoW, the distance is much further, maybe sub zone lines or could be a certain distance, I haven't tested this to be sure. I will do more testing when I get FD. Like I said, the distance is much further, but it still exists. Now I am not sure if this was implemented due to other features that complicate things. The zones are heavily layered in terrain, lots of levels which means climbing can be used to easily jump off a ledge and grab the side as you fall, making large heights possible for escape. This causes the mobs to hit the edge and wait while you are on the cliff, but will take the quickest path down to get to you once you reach an area they can path to.

Naturally, depending on the leash, the tether will break and they will degro. Again, could be a set distance they run, or a given static sub-line that breaks it.

3. Sprint

I like this mechanic, but with the death penalty and leash, it means the player can escape if their skill is high enough and they balance using their stamina when escaping. Running stamina out will force exhaustion, requiring a full regen before you can use it again, but if you use it off an on while running, it will regen fairly well without hitting that point. I have tested this on a fairly straight run and I was able to stay just ahead of the mobs.

This may be able to be tuned where it is a useful ability, but not letting the player easily reach the tether (though this also depends on run speed spells which will cause issues here, though I do not know if they are in, or if they are even planned).


4. Basic map

While the map won't have GPS, I really think having one works against over all exploration. The zones aren't like EQ where it is mass areas of empty zone without clear landmarks. Learning the zones in Pantheon may be daunting at the start (lots of levels and nooks and crannies), but it is much easier association location due to it. Having the map will be a massive aid in this process, I would prefer not to have one honestly.


There is a lot more to the game, a lot of mechanics I am still learning in play, so I have pulled back a lot in terms of opinion (not a bad thing) because I just don't know. So we will see how additional features of play effect the various things I like or dislike about the game. They may balance things out depending on implementation.

Interesting things:

Weather... from extreme dark nights, to raging storms where you can't see very well combined with many zone change behaviors, this is interesting. I think this is where their acclimation system will step in eventually and it could be a major factor in play. Whether that is good or bad, I have no idea.

Anyway, due to the fact that the game is far from finished, many things could change on later implementations.

I will say this...

If they can achieve a release status, the game will be in many ways far more than what is initially "believed" about the game and its systems. What I "think" is that what we see now are the base layers of EQ like systems (with a flavor of Vanguard thrown in) that will have newer mechanics and designs placed over the top of it, which "may" give the game that appeal to those like @rusty_shackleford , who want something more than just "EQ" in a new skin.

I still think it will be mostly EQ at the base (ie camps, slow progression, and many of the systems of play from EQ), but It may be much more than that "IF" (and that is a big IF) they can see it to fruition.

Over all though, I enjoy the game, much like I did when I played EQ and Vanguard. I get that "feeling" I had playing those games for the first time and if it can retain that progression of play, I certainly would call this my replacement for them, but that is a ways off.

[Xenich]

Quick point about "bag drop only" death penalty.

So I died, I was running back to my corpse and I got distracted doing something with the guild and forgot about my corpse. I was at another camp fighting something and someone asked about my corpse and I remembered that I had forgot to pick it up.

That isn't a penalty, that is a minor inconvenience and it misses the entire point.

[J1M]

It uses resolution scaling at all performance levels, btw.

Deal-breaker for me. Not because it can never be fixed, but because it says a lot about the people working on it.

Imagine working on a game all day and tolerating that.

[Xenich]

Well, did my first group boss type with a mechanic. Nothing special, typical tank fight, complete heal thing where you have to rotate 3 interrupts from different people, which can be tricky if they have different cooldown timers.

Still fun, but like I said... random named type that wanders around, nuttin special.

The way they do the "group" mobs is too much like EQ 2 for my liking. Basically different numbers of ^^^ (chevrons) for power level, they con the same level range as the areas mobs, but are super buffed.

I don't like it, would rather they just have higher level mobs and I don't like them gating the mobs too much with this stuff.

EQ did it better with normal mobs of the level, but grouped them together a lot so that tools could be used to split them.

I don't think this game is going to focus on that style though, so will most likely have everything be "group mob" types for balanced groups. My problem with this approach is that it can force the need for "perfect" groups while the other way allowed for mix/match, different mechanics, etc... to split off.

We will see how this works in the future... bothers a lot of people though, but I think it can be tuned so it isn't that big of a deal.

Servers are filling up though. They are above 3k now for steam play time (doubled in the last week), plus however many people who pledged which I think over 10 years is quite a few. I would 1/2 the servers are nearing full at some of the peak times. So if this keeps up I think it will be a good thing. So far, most of the reception as been good.

[rusty_shackleford]

It uses resolution scaling at all performance levels, btw.

Deal-breaker for me. Not because it can never be fixed, but because it says a lot about the people working on it.

Imagine working on a game all day and tolerating that.

They hide it from the users btw. If you're using an Ayymd GPU, the graphics look like **** because it either uses linear scaling or FSR1. Only reason I know it uses resolution scaling at all perf levels is because I installed a DLSS->FSR3 wrapper, even at the highest setting it was using ultra quality DLSS, which is what, 75% resolution or so?(1.3x upscale)

[Tweed]

Mmmm yum yum, this turd, it almost tastes like EQ! Almost!

[Xenich]

Mmmm yum yum, this turd, it almost tastes like EQ! Almost!

Lol... Enough to fill the hole.

To be fair, it isn't quite EQ in many ways either...

The more I play, the more it feels like a mix of the early games with various new mechanics sprinkled in.

Combat is definitely not EQ, not even close. You think this when you first start reading the names and like, but nope... nothing really at all.

As I said, more like vanguard in that way. Combat is faster paced than EQ and the Chevron system is certainly more akin to Vanguard style.


To be fair, there are so many place holders with systems (they all work well like a game if it were in beta, but there are layers of the systems still yet to be implemented).

I think that is what is misleading, as the game really isn't finished (like I said 15-20%) so if they finish I doubt it will be recognizable on that front.

Like I said though, it hits the spot for me and while there are some mechanics I dislike, they still aren't "mainstream" as much as most games are. The pace is much slower, and honestly... I wanted that, not to mention I miss "camps", place holder system mobs with rare cycles, etc...