What do you think about using mods when playing a game for the first time?

[WhiteShark]

I don't feel beholden to the developer's intended vision―assuming there even is a singular vision―because it's far more likely to be a mess than a masterpiece, and, moreover, I don't play games in order to discuss them with other people, so it makes little difference to me whether I'm playing the 'same' game or not. I'll happily accept the charge that I 'didn't play the (vanilla) game'; I don't care.

[logincrash]

morrowind is probably the worst scrolls game anyways
oblivion>daggerfall>skyrim>morrowind maybe its better than arena but i've never played that

Jesus ******* Christ. Okay, you are a ****** and my first instinct to ridicule you was correct.

[Vergil]

Oh I missed your username, so you're a woman as well?

[Acrux]

@Clifford, it's okay, man. I still like you.

[Big Red Dog]

morrowind is probably the worst scrolls game anyways
oblivion>daggerfall>skyrim>morrowind maybe its better than arena but i've never played that

Jesus ******* Christ. Okay, you are a ****** and my first instinct to ridicule you was correct.

morrowind isn't fun, it's interesting from a story and lore perspective but it's not fun, which is the point of playing a game
also the sound effects are disgusting and the game is ugly

[Vergil]

morrowind is probably the worst scrolls game anyways
oblivion>daggerfall>skyrim>morrowind maybe its better than arena but i've never played that

Jesus ******* Christ. Okay, you are a ****** and my first instinct to ridicule you was correct.

morrowind isn't fun, it's interesting from a story and lore perspective but it's not fun, which is the point of playing a game
also the sound effects are disgusting and the game is ugly

You must be 18 years or older to post here

[Big Red Dog]

You must be 18 years or older to post here

i dont want to engage with someone fantasizing about dog **** and underaged people while they sport a profile picture of a gay man who fucks animals.

[Vergil]

You must be 18 years or older to post here

i want to engage with fantasizing about dog **** and underaged people

Mods can we do something about this sick creep?

[Oyster Sauce]

Being able to jump from rooftop to rooftop automatically makes Morrowind a fun game

[logincrash]

morrowind isn't fun, it's interesting from a story and lore perspective but it's not fun, which is the point of playing a game
also the sound effects are disgusting and the game is ugly

Those are very subjective criteria.
Objectively, the Elder Scrolls games peaked with Morrowind and each game after it was more and more simplified slop for console *******. I have argued for streamlining before, but the degree to which Bethesda gutted entire gameplay systems (like the ******* classes and attributes and chucked out weapon types and simplified equipment) is indefensible.
It truly takes a massive slobbering moron like you to make me consider siding with Vergil on this particular point.

[Vergil]

Being able to jump from rooftop to rooftop automatically makes Morrowind a fun game

I don't think he got to that point as most Morrowind haters quit after not choosing short blade and then trying to use the tutorial dagger while wondering why their character isn't adept at this weapon he doesn't have proficiency in.

[logincrash]

Being able to jump from rooftop to rooftop automatically makes Morrowind a fun game

I don't think he got to that point as most Morrowind haters quit after not choosing short blade and then trying to use the tutorial dagger while wondering why their character isn't adept at this weapon he doesn't have proficiency in.

The amount of ******* posting videos of swinging the rusty iron dagger around with zero stamina to prove that Morrowind combat sucks because you can never hit anything is staggering.

[Hauberk]

I can't vote as there's no kingcomrade option because while I think that you should indeed try to play the original game as released, I don't think that playing a modified version is necessarily a bad thing. Now I will never play BG3 but imagine playing it unmodded.

[Big Red Dog]

Objectively, the Elder Scrolls games peaked with Morrowind and each game after it was more and more simplified slop for console *******. I have argued for streamlining before, but the degree to which Bethesda gutted entire gameplay systems (like the ******* classes and attributes and chucked out weapon types and simplified equipment) is indefensible.
It truly takes a massive slobbering moron like you to make me consider siding with Vergil on this particular point.

Those are very subjective criteria.
I finished daggerfall I dropped morrowind, its not a complexity issue its a dogshit poopie bad game issue. Morrowind is worse than daggerfall in almost every way.

[logincrash]

Those are very subjective criteria.
I finished daggerfall I dropped morrowind, its not a complexity issue its a dogshit poopie bad game issue. Morrowind is worse than daggerfall in almost every way.

****** alert.

[Xenich]

Level scaling sucks, it is a ******** (no risk, no danger, always what you can beat).

a game doesn't have to be hard to be fun, and any game with nondice combat will be basically impossible to die in

Not looking for an entertainment simulator, either it is a game and by its very definition is designed to challenge the player, or it is a fantasy jerkoff simulator for the inept and lazy. I think my point was that it was designed for console mainstream, ie.. the inept and lazy.

The constant hand holding (ie go here, go a little further, you are getting close to your objective... your objective is before you! Follow the bouncing ball!),

that's just not true, you can easily just not look at the compass. if you cant peel your eyes away from the compass that's really your fault. its like complaining that sparknotes spoiled the book you were reading

LOL I can't tell if you are trolling or just plain ********. It is hard to say as I have seen the mainstream ******* make this very argument.

Besides, the game specifically spammed hint pop ups in some quests as if the player was too stupid to know what to do.

The "phone it in" part of the game of with the repetitious content.

can you give me an example of the repetitious content? oblivion has the best quests of any ES game

Been a while, but the entire portal thing where you went to the other dimension was nothing more than copy pastes that you repeated over and over and over. Very original... good design, for a mainstreamer I guess. Bestest game Eva!

The heavy addition of numerous fast travel points... FFS complain about an immersive world, then fast port everywhere?

yeah you can but you chose to do that, you can choose to ask you wife's bvll to play the game for you to but nobody is forcing you to do that. i would compare this again to reading a book but this time you just read the first chapter flipped to the last chapter and read that, you CAN do that but you can also not

Sure, you can choose not to wear armor if it makes things too easy. Can even play blind folded, or spend any development points, etc... seriously, a ******** argument for **** poor design, but hey... not the first idiot argument you have made so far.

They changed the development system compared to Morrowind, I didn't care for.

morrowind is probably the worst scrolls game anyways
oblivion>daggerfall>skyrim>morrowind maybe its better than arena but i've never played that

Yep, you were a kid playing console when it released.

Anyway, FCOM mod (multiple overhauls) fixed tons of problems, added numerous quests (with no hand holding), made encounters varied in level where you could not beat them until you were higher level (ie the world was dangerous), and added numerous mobs of different types throughout the world etc...

i dont care about whatever that is, i looked at their mod page and the promotional video was a disgusting enb bloom vomit pile so it closed that tab. i can't imagine someone that thinks that looks good has any idea what good gameplay or enemy/quest design is

LOL Again, console player. FCOM was back during the modding push back after it was released and it was a culmination of overhauls that fixed a lot of the retardedness of the game, but it was a pain to install and the fact that you don't even know about it tells me you didn't play the game on PC during its era or were too young to know your head from your *** about how to deal with game modding.

By the way, graphics improvements were limited back then, this was before all the (500 mods to make the game pretty with skyrim).

The default game was a console game made for the console players, it was definitely pandering to a different crowd.

big cope seethe mald etc

Well, you are a console moron who loves cheese, ease, cheats and "purity graphics" so you can loaf on your couch spamming buttons for fun (tm).


Seriously, if this was a troll, good job, if not... well... you are one ******** person.

[Magick]

Kek, this ****** is trying to make out it's not "ok" to mod a single player game, even if one finds it more enjoyable. Where have we heard that before.

There was once a ****** on Codex named Typhoid something, I forget, but he was convinced it was masterful and fun to play a single character dungeon crawler with encumbrance enabled and it somehow added to the game. For maybe ten posts of pyramid quoting I went back and forth with this dented-head inbred ********** about how much better a game like Ultima Underworld becomes when you turn that garbage off. Then I had a revelation that some people simply love to cut the crusts off their bread, prefer putting milk in their coffee, wheeze-laugh at Will & Grace, and lick their finger before turning the page. They are what they are and all they will ever be.

The games are designed around encumbrance, using mods to get around it is not "modding", it's just cheating. In games where a character attribute confers additional weight or item volume limits, it also negatively impacts the balance.
Basically, if you want to carry more **** then make a character with high strength you ******* cheater.

Depends.
Being able to only carry certain types of weapons or supplies at once, where I have to make a meaningful choice? Fine.
But limiting me to 13 boar asses rather than 14? Or saying I can't carry more than the clothes on my back and a stack of gems? ******* stupid waste of time. When it's just random **** I can't carry and can achieve the same effect with walking back and forth, that **** is just padding and wasting time.

[Big Red Dog]

Not looking for an entertainment simulator

go smash smash your balls with a hammer then i guess

mainstream

mainstream, mainstream mainstream mainstream mainstream . mainstream ...mainstream.

Been a while, but the entire portal thing where you went to the other dimension was nothing more than copy pastes that you repeated over and over and over. Very original... good design, for a mainstreamer I guess. Bestest game Eva!

all of the ones you enter for the story are not copy pasted. can't recall if the ones out in the middle of the woods have any copy pastes though.

Sure, you can choose not to wear armor if it makes things too easy. Can even play blind folded, or spend any development points, etc... seriously, a ******** argument for **** poor design, but hey... not the first idiot argument you have made so far.

you see that hotdog on the sidewalk? how could i not eat it? i mean its right there in the open.. talk about poor design...

Yep, you were a kid playing console when it released.

actually i was a toddler when morrowind released and didnt play it until my late teens after i played and enjoyed daggerfall (which like oblivion is better than morrwind)

LOL Again, console player. FCOM was back during the modding push back after it was released and it was a culmination of overhauls that fixed a lot of the retardedness of the game, but it was a pain to install and the fact that you don't even know about it tells me you didn't play the game on PC during its era or were too young to know your head from your *** about how to deal with game modding.

By the way, graphics improvements were limited back then, this was before all the (500 mods to make the game pretty with skyrim).

if you think that looks good please gouge your eyes out. as for not knowing what some garbage mod for oblivion was, yes i admit to my great shame i was not terminally online as a child.

Well, you are a console moron who loves cheese, ease, cheats and "purity graphics" so you can loaf on your couch spamming buttons for fun (tm).
Seriously, if this was a troll, good job, if not... well... you are one ******** person.

are you drinking the tap water?

[Xenich]

Not looking for an entertainment simulator

go smash smash your balls with a hammer then i guess

LOL yep, ******** mainstream, inept, lazy console tard kiddie generation. Doesn't like games because they require effort and that gets in the way of smoking pot and spamming buttons while you jerk off to gay sex scenes.

mainstream

mainstream, mainstream mainstream mainstream mainstream . mainstream ...mainstream.

Yes, also known as the sheepish lazy inept masses who view actual game play as a detriment to "entertainment".

Been a while, but the entire portal thing where you went to the other dimension was nothing more than copy pastes that you repeated over and over and over. Very original... good design, for a mainstreamer I guess. Bestest game Eva!

all of the ones you enter for the story are not copy pasted. can't recall if the ones out in the middle of the woods have any copy pastes though.

Each area location you went, it was copy pasted environments and scenarios. Kill a bunch of crap, next portal, ohh look more of the same, kill another portal, next area... repeat. It was ******** and lazy design, but hey... the console kiddies loved it.

Sure, you can choose not to wear armor if it makes things too easy. Can even play blind folded, or spend any development points, etc... seriously, a ******** argument for **** poor design, but hey... not the first idiot argument you have made so far.

you see that hotdog on the sidewalk? how could i not eat it? i mean its right there in the open.. talk about poor design...

See, you are too stupid to even logically equate the issue. These are actual game play implementations specifically part of the game and designed to be used. They were integrated into the system which is why the mods that fixed them were more than simply "turning off" things because some required you to use the fast travel in some instances. Also, the spamming of a pop up message literally telling you information and your response is "well, don't read it"?

Well Mr. Wizard, how do I decide what is relevant game play messaging versus stupid hint handing hand holding?

"Oh look, pop up said the hint is right over there! Guess I will forget that and then search in another place"

You are severely stupid.

Yep, you were a kid playing console when it released.

actually i was a toddler when morrowind released and didnt play it until my late teens after i played and enjoyed daggerfall (which like oblivion is better than morrwind)

Which explains a lot. Your opinion of older games is that of a stupid kid who had no experience with the games of the era, but somehow thinks they can properly judge the game accordingly and does so to the metrics of ******** console mainstream player ideals. You are the reason games are stupid these days. You are the cash cow, the idiot that they seek to exploit.

Stupid Kid.

LOL Again, console player. FCOM was back during the modding push back after it was released and it was a culmination of overhauls that fixed a lot of the retardedness of the game, but it was a pain to install and the fact that you don't even know about it tells me you didn't play the game on PC during its era or were too young to know your head from your *** about how to deal with game modding.

By the way, graphics improvements were limited back then, this was before all the (500 mods to make the game pretty with skyrim).

if you think that looks good please gouge your eyes out. as for not knowing what some garbage mod for oblivion was, yes i admit to my great shame i was not terminally online as a child.

I am talking about mechanics you idiot. See, I speak of "game play" mechanics and the like and you are so stupid the only thing you can come back with is "but its not purity". What is funny is your excuse is then to back away and act like you are above it all, that "its just a game" dude as if I am obsessing over irrelevant things. You are literally the ******** sub intellect that demands games not be games, but button pushing entertainment simulators because it is too much effort to actually play a game because you really are just a stupid person and anything above simple reflexive operations stresses you out.

Well, you are a console moron who loves cheese, ease, cheats and "purity graphics" so you can loaf on your couch spamming buttons for fun (tm).
Seriously, if this was a troll, good job, if not... well... you are one ******** person.

are you drinking the tap water?

Going with ******** then ehh?

[Big Red Dog]

Depends.
Being able to only carry certain types of weapons or supplies at once, where I have to make a meaningful choice? Fine.
But limiting me to 13 boar asses rather than 14? Or saying I can't carry more than the clothes on my back and a stack of gems? ******* stupid waste of time. When it's just random **** I can't carry and can achieve the same effect with walking back and forth, that **** is just padding and wasting time.

ive never played the ultima games but a quick google search shows that carrying 14 boar asses instead of 13 would affect game balance due to starvation systems in some games, ultima underworld specifically allows you less recovery of vitality and mana when resting without eating so this is a bad example to prove your point

[Big Red Dog]

Not looking for an entertainment simulator

go smash smash your balls with a hammer then i guess

LOL yep, ******** mainstream, inept, lazy console tard kiddie generation. Doesn't like games because they require effort and that gets in the way of smoking pot and spamming buttons while you jerk off to gay sex scenes.

mainstream

mainstream, mainstream mainstream mainstream mainstream . mainstream ...mainstream.

Yes, also known as the sheepish lazy inept masses who view actual game play as a detriment to "entertainment".

Been a while, but the entire portal thing where you went to the other dimension was nothing more than copy pastes that you repeated over and over and over. Very original... good design, for a mainstreamer I guess. Bestest game Eva!

all of the ones you enter for the story are not copy pasted. can't recall if the ones out in the middle of the woods have any copy pastes though.

Each area location you went, it was copy pasted environments and scenarios. Kill a bunch of crap, next portal, ohh look more of the same, kill another portal, next area... repeat. It was ******** and lazy design, but hey... the console kiddies loved it.

Sure, you can choose not to wear armor if it makes things too easy. Can even play blind folded, or spend any development points, etc... seriously, a ******** argument for **** poor design, but hey... not the first idiot argument you have made so far.

you see that hotdog on the sidewalk? how could i not eat it? i mean its right there in the open.. talk about poor design...

See, you are too stupid to even logically equate the issue. These are actual game play implementations specifically part of the game and designed to be used. They were integrated into the system which is why the mods that fixed them were more than simply "turning off" things because some required you to use the fast travel in some instances. Also, the spamming of a pop up message literally telling you information and your response is "well, don't read it"?

Well Mr. Wizard, how do I decide what is relevant game play messaging versus stupid hint handing hand holding?

"Oh look, pop up said the hint is right over there! Guess I will forget that and then search in another place"

You are severely stupid.

Yep, you were a kid playing console when it released.

actually i was a toddler when morrowind released and didnt play it until my late teens after i played and enjoyed daggerfall (which like oblivion is better than morrwind)

Which explains a lot. Your opinion of older games is that of a stupid kid who had no experience with the games of the era, but somehow thinks they can properly judge the game accordingly and does so to the metrics of ******** console mainstream player ideals. You are the reason games are stupid these days. You are the cash cow, the idiot that they seek to exploit.

Stupid Kid.

LOL Again, console player. FCOM was back during the modding push back after it was released and it was a culmination of overhauls that fixed a lot of the retardedness of the game, but it was a pain to install and the fact that you don't even know about it tells me you didn't play the game on PC during its era or were too young to know your head from your *** about how to deal with game modding.

By the way, graphics improvements were limited back then, this was before all the (500 mods to make the game pretty with skyrim).

if you think that looks good please gouge your eyes out. as for not knowing what some garbage mod for oblivion was, yes i admit to my great shame i was not terminally online as a child.

I am talking about mechanics you idiot. See, I speak of "game play" mechanics and the like and you are so stupid the only thing you can come back with is "but its not purity". What is funny is your excuse is then to back away and act like you are above it all, that "its just a game" dude as if I am obsessing over irrelevant things. You are literally the ******** sub intellect that demands games not be games, but button pushing entertainment simulators because it is too much effort to actually play a game because you really are just a stupid person and anything above simple reflexive operations stresses you out.

Well, you are a console moron who loves cheese, ease, cheats and "purity graphics" so you can loaf on your couch spamming buttons for fun (tm).
Seriously, if this was a troll, good job, if not... well... you are one ******** person.

are you drinking the tap water?

Going with ******** then ehh?

go off sister

[Magick]

Depends.
Being able to only carry certain types of weapons or supplies at once, where I have to make a meaningful choice? Fine.
But limiting me to 13 boar asses rather than 14? Or saying I can't carry more than the clothes on my back and a stack of gems? ******* stupid waste of time. When it's just random **** I can't carry and can achieve the same effect with walking back and forth, that **** is just padding and wasting time.

ive never played the ultima games but a quick google search shows that carrying 14 boar asses instead of 13 would affect game balance due to starvation systems in some games, ultima underworld specifically allows you less recovery of vitality and mana when resting without eating so this is a bad example to prove your point

Who said anything about eating them???
Don't you know the meme on looting boar/bear asses in RPGs?

[Big Red Dog]

Depends.
Being able to only carry certain types of weapons or supplies at once, where I have to make a meaningful choice? Fine.
But limiting me to 13 boar asses rather than 14? Or saying I can't carry more than the clothes on my back and a stack of gems? ******* stupid waste of time. When it's just random **** I can't carry and can achieve the same effect with walking back and forth, that **** is just padding and wasting time.

ive never played the ultima games but a quick google search shows that carrying 14 boar asses instead of 13 would affect game balance due to starvation systems in some games, ultima underworld specifically allows you less recovery of vitality and mana when resting without eating so this is a bad example to prove your point

Who said anything about eating them???
Don't you know the meme on looting boar/bear asses in RPGs?

i dont play mmos they are all bad, but boar *** is basically just ham a poor choice of dank maymays to choose in reference to a game series involving starvation mechanics

[Rand]

I don't know how anyone could have played Oblivion through unmodded, it was pure garbage with all its console crap, mainstream design, hand holding, etc... I made it into the game a bit before I stopped playing in disgust. FCOM made the game actually enjoyable.

I have never modded oblivion (other than patch mods) and i've played through it hundreds of times and 100%ed it at least 10 times. you might just hate fun

Oh, boy, I hate fun like this so much!

[Magick]

ive never played the ultima games but a quick google search shows that carrying 14 boar asses instead of 13 would affect game balance due to starvation systems in some games, ultima underworld specifically allows you less recovery of vitality and mana when resting without eating so this is a bad example to prove your point

Who said anything about eating them???
Don't you know the meme on looting boar/bear asses in RPGs?

i dont play mmos they are all bad, but boar *** is basically just ham a poor choice of dank maymays to choose in reference to a game series involving starvation mechanics

Depends. My comment was more generic rather than specifically referring to Ultima. Never played it. (Queue the ).

Regardless. Meaningful choices / sacrifices for equipment and supplies = good. Waste of ******* time with limiting generic loot due to encumbrance = bad.
Tis why I like the tetris / grid system a bit better than daft weight limits.

And I don't give a **** what anyone things, I'm a loot ***** and my OCD will never let me be anything else. I WILL spend all day walking back and forth to pick **** up if I need to, lol.

[Rand]

Anyway, FCOM mod (multiple overhauls) fixed tons of problems, added numerous quests (with no hand holding), made encounters varied in level where you could not beat them until you were higher level (ie the world was dangerous), and added numerous mobs of different types throughout the world etc...

The default game was a console game made for the console players, it was definitely pandering to a different crowd.

I know, right?

"Don't go in that old ruin. It's dangerous!"

My level three character, intrigued, sneaks in.
The level-selected lists generate three imps and four mudcrabs in the whole (three-area) set of a dozen rooms.
Two died to obvious floor traps that I can easily walk around.
Treasure: a steel dagger and five septims.

Design!

Use an unlevelled mod (I forget the name) and you do not want to go in there until you're level 20 or so and can handle the dozen tough daedra.

[Xenich]

Anyway, FCOM mod (multiple overhauls) fixed tons of problems, added numerous quests (with no hand holding), made encounters varied in level where you could not beat them until you were higher level (ie the world was dangerous), and added numerous mobs of different types throughout the world etc...

The default game was a console game made for the console players, it was definitely pandering to a different crowd.

I know, right?

"Don't go in that old ruin. It's dangerous!"

My level three character, intrigued, sneaks in.
The level-selected lists generate three imps and four mudcrabs in the whole (three-area) set of a dozen rooms.
Two died to obvious floor traps that I can easily walk around.
Treasure: a steel dagger and five septims.

Design!

Use an unlevelled mod (I forget the name) and you do not want to go in there until you're level 20 or so and can handle the dozen tough daedra.

Well, at least you could buy horse armor! Talk about dedication to customers! Bethesda always were looking out for their players...

I remember people hammering them so hard on that. "Your game is filled with ******* bugs and you are busy making horse armor? WTF!!!" LOL

[ihateindians]

I mentioned this — you're just making all the classes the same and taking away any unique utility.

Ah I see, in a single character game making every character you roll need to have a certain number in strength which then places a ******** amount of importance in a stat that otherwise would be a dump if you played something that didn't give a **** about it otherwise. Very unique.

In a game like Ultima Underworld, encumbrance only exists to test your meta knowledge of what key items you need and what you can do without especially if you dare not start with a template that has 25-30 strength. There's no grand trade off except for making someone waste time in their first playthrough. It's also made further irrelevant since many games already enforce an inventory limit, so what is the overall point of this mechanic? Give strength/fighters some extra utility? Why not let them just punch down locked wooden doors or be physically intimidating to pussy-boy NPCs?

Truth is encumbrance is some wannabe immersion thing put in a game where your backpack can suddenly now hold fifteen greatswords and forty pairs of plate mail armor and even then that was solved as soon as someone thought of a Tetris-grid inventory. The latter still gives you the exact same end result (and if you want you can give a class like fighter an expanded inventory to work with) without any of the annoyance of your character abruptly moving like cement.

If you really do insist this genius and cutting edge mechanic exist, then have it only affect what is actually being worn on your character .

[Statesman]

Bugfix fanpatch/mods are certainly a must on a first time playthrough. I'll also mod any offending texture/models (using game's artstyle as a guideline), for example changing the colors of an armor piece to match the rest of my outfit. Now quest mods depends on the content itself, as long as they are highly reccomended/made with care to fit within the lore (no OP rewards or meme characters), they are fine by me. I usually leave overhauls/mechanic modification for second playthorughs (assuming I end up liking the game that much).
I consider De-niggerfication/*** removal to be a bugfix.

[LemonDemonGirl]

Honestly I can handle playing Skyrim with mods

► Show Spoiler

Mainly because I haven't tried to install any