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Finarfin wrote: ↑ August 5th, 2024, 13:59

orinEsque wrote: ↑ August 5th, 2024, 13:55

Finarfin wrote: ↑ August 4th, 2024, 22:25
Blunt Skuncher > Marcus Valorian
Hunkers Boolean > Rowan Ironwood
Sauceman Chorizo > Baern Spicebrew
Flansy Thornwhist > Perrin Copperkettle
Zumbo Pumbo > Quinlan Softstep
Muttonchomps Oreely > Jory Highhill
Gleeful Clong > Trog Bloodfang
Funglesby > Gloomcap
Thodric Shedeever > Logain Irons
Bunt Chugley > James Churney
Vicar Humbletoes > Vicar Humbleton
Oyster Boy Dringo > Oliver Cross
Hunkers Boolean is Hannah Binary on No Alphabets because it was a ******. The ****** dedicates his one line to tell you he's gay.
ewww, so he is a ****** and a ******?

Literal niggerfaggot

Silver wrote: ↑ August 4th, 2024, 19:12
Small portion of Gold Dwarf NPCs.

A bit of constructive criticism, is it me or does the dwarf woman's face on the bottom left look a bit asian? May just be the the angle of the 2d picture though.

Reichspepe wrote: ↑ August 5th, 2024, 14:15

Silver wrote: ↑ August 4th, 2024, 19:12
Small portion of Gold Dwarf NPCs.

A bit of constructive criticism, is it me or does the dwarf woman's face on the bottom left look a bit asian? May just be the the angle of the 2d picture though.

These screenshots are without the head model changes, just the visual override stuff I think

loregamer wrote: ↑ August 5th, 2024, 16:09

Reichspepe wrote: ↑ August 5th, 2024, 14:15

Silver wrote: ↑ August 4th, 2024, 19:12
Small portion of Gold Dwarf NPCs.

A bit of constructive criticism, is it me or does the dwarf woman's face on the bottom left look a bit asian? May just be the the angle of the 2d picture though.
These screenshots are without the head model changes, just the visual override stuff I think

Nope this screeny has head model change, otherwise you'd be seeing *******.

Reichspepe wrote: ↑ August 5th, 2024, 14:15
A bit of constructive criticism, is it me or does the dwarf woman's face on the bottom left look a bit asian? May just be the the angle of the 2d picture though.

Yeah, will keep it in my notes.

It doesn't translate too bad in the game, but her eyes are kinda a bit asian'y.

Silver wrote: ↑ August 5th, 2024, 16:57

Reichspepe wrote: ↑ August 5th, 2024, 14:15
A bit of constructive criticism, is it me or does the dwarf woman's face on the bottom left look a bit asian? May just be the the angle of the 2d picture though.
Yeah, will keep it in my notes.
It doesn't translate too bad in the game, but her eyes are kinda a bit asian'y.

Maybe she's just Finnish.

WhiteShark wrote: ↑ August 5th, 2024, 20:27

Silver wrote: ↑ August 5th, 2024, 16:57

Reichspepe wrote: ↑ August 5th, 2024, 14:15
A bit of constructive criticism, is it me or does the dwarf woman's face on the bottom left look a bit asian? May just be the the angle of the 2d picture though.
Yeah, will keep it in my notes.
It doesn't translate too bad in the game, but her eyes are kinda a bit asian'y.
Maybe she's just Finnish.

PERKELE! :weeb:

What would you think of the suggestion of giving (at least some of) the drow npcs darker skin? I feel like almost all of them are a bit too light and not like in many of the great older illustrations.

Reichspepe wrote: ↑ August 13th, 2024, 13:55
What would you think of the suggestion of giving (at least some of) the drow npcs darker skin? I feel like almost all of them are a bit too light and not like in many of the great older illustrations.

@Silver
I see if our visual specialist picks us some darker greys. pure black just looks awful btw. We tried

I can try cooking new skin colors as well. But that's not a priority rn.

Reichspepe wrote: ↑ August 13th, 2024, 13:55
What would you think of the suggestion of giving (at least some of) the drow npcs darker skin? I feel like almost all of them are a bit too light and not like in many of the great older illustrations.

Should be "obsidian black", if memory serves. So, agree. Only "problem" is that facial features might become very hard to actually see in certain situations (e.g Underdark).

fkirenicus wrote: ↑ August 13th, 2024, 14:05

Reichspepe wrote: ↑ August 13th, 2024, 13:55
What would you think of the suggestion of giving (at least some of) the drow npcs darker skin? I feel like almost all of them are a bit too light and not like in many of the great older illustrations.
Should be "obsidian black", if memory serves. So, agree. Only "problem" is that facial features might become very hard to actually see in certain situations (e.g Underdark).

Takes away all definition. It's really awful to look at.

@fkirenicus @orinEsque

Yeah I don't mean real obsidian black dark levels, but I think some of the already existing skintones are quite good concerning aesthetics and visibility of facial features. I was thinking of these here,
as a general range of usable ones for some variety:

It feels like almost only the ones to the left are used ingame.

Did you know there are 57 NPCs has the body of one race and the text says something completely different?
Example: There is a dwarf. If you inspect him, it says he's a human

To answer both your queries (@fkirenicus @Reichspepe ) , like the high elves up there the drows do indeed have more drow like colors, though i will push to make them a little darker than they are right now in the mod, because they felt lighter gray than I'd like.

orinEsque wrote: ↑ August 13th, 2024, 14:20
Did you know there are 57 NPCs has the body of one race and the text says something completely different?
Example: There is a dwarf. If you inspect him, it says he's a human

I'm not surprised. But in this case maybe he's just a manlet?

Reichspepe wrote: ↑ August 13th, 2024, 14:22

orinEsque wrote: ↑ August 13th, 2024, 14:20
Did you know there are 57 NPCs has the body of one race and the text says something completely different?
Example: There is a dwarf. If you inspect him, it says he's a human
I'm not surprised. But in this case maybe he's just a manlet?

well makes more sense if he's a gnome. (and yes gnomes labelled as humans is in the list too) the stockyness of the dwarf is quite "manly"... short tho they maybe

orinEsque wrote: ↑ August 13th, 2024, 14:20
Did you know there are 57 NPCs has the body of one race and the text says something completely different?
Example: There is a dwarf. If you inspect him, it says he's a human

Sounds ike Larian used the Infinity Engine strategy when designing their NPCs, then. If memory serves, one of the first NPCs in BG1 appears as a dwarf, but his race is set to human. Some who have the appearance of women are gendered "male" in their .cre files. There are similar examples in both NWNs as well.

orinEsque wrote: ↑ August 13th, 2024, 14:23
well makes more sense if he's a gnome. (and yes gnomes labelled as humans is in the list too) the stockyness of the dwarf is quite "manly"... short tho they maybe

That is probably the worst atrocity done to non-human races in D&D 5e and consequently BG3: gnomes and halflings (even more than dwarves) look like real-life dwarves, which means their proportions are utterly wrong, and their animations look ridiculous, compared to other D&D games before this.
And no, my intention is not to belittle and ridicule real-life dwarves. But like some of them have said themselves, Larian/WotC doing this to non-human races doesn't exactly help real-life dwarves in any way, whatsoever.

Concerning drow, at least try to avoid blue tones in their skin, pretty please. :-) This ain't Tamriel/Morrowind...

fkirenicus wrote: ↑ August 13th, 2024, 14:38
Concerning drow, at least try to avoid blue tones in their skin, pretty please. :-) This ain't Tamriel/Morrowind...

noted

I am quite versed in NWN1 / 2 and DA:O toolsets, but my modding does require such a thing... So, when/if Larian finally release the modding tools they have promised, I am willing to partake in the effort - if only to take some work off of other, more talented/experienced modders' backs, so that they can concentrate on the more advanced stuff.

I have "sculpted" heads in the DA:O toolset, so have a bit of experience. Also, I am a sucker for lore (which some probably have guessed

) so I can go through/"proof-read" both custom dialogs and creature statistics if necessary. Happy to help.

But, as I've said, the tools must become available first... The hex'n'bitsnbytes you guys are doing magic with so far is far beyond me. Thanks for your hard work, again.

Completely ******* ******** to avoid blue tones in their skin. They literally have a diverse skin color ranging from violet to gray-blue-purple. Even the Forgotten Realms Wiki says Black, dark blue, gray. Besides, the Dunmer are not exclusively blue skinned. They have greenish, greyish, navy blue to black and blue undertones.

I'd say the ones I posted, when looking at them ingame are very good lore wise and have a nice variety for fitting older and some newer depictions. And I do think the blue-ish tone in a few of them is completely fine. Or perhaps we have a slightly different understanding of what is blue? @fkirenicus

Reichspepe wrote: ↑ August 13th, 2024, 15:28
I'd say the ones I posted, when looking at them ingame are very good lore wise and have a nice variety for fitting older and some newer depictions. And I do think the blue-ish tone in a few of them is completely fine. Or perhaps we have a slightly different understanding of what is blue? @fkirenicus

Maybe.

I was thinking Morrowind Dunmer blue tinge, which has set the standard for "dark elves" pretty much since it release. Drow do not look like this.
https://imgs.search.brave.com/loaEwzP0- ... YWZhZDY5ZQ

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/elder ... 0223233011

To put it a different way; the Oblodra lass in BG3 looks more like a Dunmer, than an ex-resident of Menzoberranzan. Minthara was just grey, IIRC, which IMO is also wrong "drow-wise", but the blue skin of the Oblodra gal (not to mention her looking like an African) is just not right at all in my book.

fkirenicus wrote: ↑ August 13th, 2024, 15:32

Reichspepe wrote: ↑ August 13th, 2024, 15:28
I'd say the ones I posted, when looking at them ingame are very good lore wise and have a nice variety for fitting older and some newer depictions. And I do think the blue-ish tone in a few of them is completely fine. Or perhaps we have a slightly different understanding of what is blue? @fkirenicus
Maybe.
I was thinking Morrowind Dunmer blue tinge, which has set the standard for "dark elves" pretty much since it release. Drow do not look like this.
https://imgs.search.brave.com/loaEwzP0- ... YWZhZDY5ZQ

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/elder ... 0223233011

To put it a different way; the Oblodra lass in BG3 looks more like a Dunmer, than an ex-resident of Menzoberranzan. Minthara was just grey, IIRC, which IMO is also wrong "drow-wise", but the blue skin of the Oblodra gal (not to mention her looking like an African) is just not right at all in my book.

Alright, if what you meant was those pics, I agree. Though I think Araj Oblodra was actually alright. However her tone is (among) the lightest a drow should be imo.

Hello. As part of my upcoming "Silver's racist fantasy manifesto about BG3" I shall open up about thought process behind drow aesthetics.

As you guys pointed out, drow (canonically) *should* have obsidian skin colour. But I find that it really doesn't translate well into this medium (game medium or specifically bg3 medium). Sure, in drawings and art, be it traditional or digital, you can play with light in ways that highlight and emphasize the interest of "pitch black" skin as drow would have it. Yet in game it just looks like someone dumped character into shoe polish and left them to dry.

► Shoe polish drow

You know?

So, as far as drow go, for BBE aesthetics I've removed only extremely blue or extremely purple skintones, leaving shades of blue-gray, purple-gray of various depth for it just "looks best" in game. As well as including new skintones.

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Annnnd on top of that, we will still create an addon with "darker drows", for people that would still want to use it in the game. After all, it's all up to personal taste to decide if pitch black skin is worth it in the game. To me, it looks slightly comical, but it doesn't mean that there aren't people who'd enjoy it.

orinEsque wrote: ↑ August 13th, 2024, 14:00
cooking.

I thought you were an old biddy and not a zoomer?

BobT wrote: ↑ August 13th, 2024, 18:13

orinEsque wrote: ↑ August 13th, 2024, 14:00
cooking.
I thought you were an old biddy and not a zoomer?

Zoomers can cook... I think? Right @loregamer ? I been spending too much time with zoomers

.

Finarfin wrote: ↑ August 5th, 2024, 13:59

orinEsque wrote: ↑ August 5th, 2024, 13:55

Finarfin wrote: ↑ August 4th, 2024, 22:25
Blunt Skuncher > Marcus Valorian
Hunkers Boolean > Rowan Ironwood
Sauceman Chorizo > Baern Spicebrew
Flansy Thornwhist > Perrin Copperkettle
Zumbo Pumbo > Quinlan Softstep
Muttonchomps Oreely > Jory Highhill
Gleeful Clong > Trog Bloodfang
Funglesby > Gloomcap
Thodric Shedeever > Logain Irons
Bunt Chugley > James Churney
Vicar Humbletoes > Vicar Humbleton
Oyster Boy Dringo > Oliver Cross
Hunkers Boolean is Hannah Binary on No Alphabets because it was a ******. The ****** dedicates his one line to tell you he's gay.
ewww, so he is a ****** and a ******?

AD&D Fiend Folio:

Drow are black-skinned and pale-haired. They are slight of build and have long, delicate fingers and toes.

AD&D2e Monstrous Manual:

Drow have black skin and pale, usually white hair. They are shorter and more slender than humans, seldom reaching more than 5 feet in height. Male drow weigh between 80 and 110 pounds, and females between 95 and 120 pounds. Drow have finely chiseled features, and their fingers and toes are long and delicate. Like all elves, they have higher Dexterity and lower Constitution than men.

AD&D2e The Drow of the Underdark:

Drow vary in shape, features, and hair color as greatly as humans do. The only exception to this rule is their uniformly jet-black skin (the few exceptions tend to be bone-white albinos). The majority of drow have snow-white hair from birth, yellowing (if female) or graying (if male) and thinning with great age. Rare drow have naturally silver or copper-hued hair, although there are those who deliberately dye their hair silver (see the chapter on Drow Religion, under Eilistraee). Most drow have red eyes. Others have green, brown, or black. Various shades of gray, even amber and rose-hued eyes are not unknown. All drow eyes tend to grow redder when they are angry or upset. Yellow eyes usually denote illness, disease, poisoning, or the presence of certain detrimental magics. Blue and purple (and all the tints thereof) are the most unusual eye colors, and usually denote human or surface elven blood somewhere in the drow's ancestry. Drow teeth may be black, white, or purple, and their gums, tongues, and throats pink, red, or purple. Drow females tend to be bigger and stronger than males. Both sexes tend to be lithe, slim, and graceful in build, features, and movements, much as other elves appear to human eyes.

D&D 3/3.5e Monster Manual:

This humanoid is slender and shorter than a human. It has jet black skin and white hair.
Also known as dark elves, drow are a depraved and evil subterranean offshoot. White is the most common hair color among drow, but almost any pale shade is possible. Drow tend to be smaller and thinner than other sorts of elves, and their eyes are often a vivid red.

D&D5e PHB:

Also called dark elves, the drow have skin that resembles charcoal or obsidian, as well as stark white or pale yellow hair. They commonly have very pale eyes (so pale as to be mistaken for white) in shades of lilac, silver, pink, red, and blue. They tend to be smaller and thinner than most elves.

Charcoal/obsidian skin-color looks fine in-game and it fits 5e drow description.

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