Final Fantasy VII Rebirth

[ArcaneLurker]

East Asians are more androgynous by default, so I don't think it's that strange that their protagonists, who are typically young, don't look like extremely masculine by western standards.

[Jordy]

FFVIII - No gay stuff I can remember

At least he doesn't try and hit on you every 5 mins a la BG3 but yeah, 3/4 length shorts are pretty gay.

[Jordy]

East Asians are more androgynous by default, so I don't think it's that strange that their protagonists, who are typically young, don't look like extremely masculine by western standards.

That sounds a lot like John Cleese

[rusty_shackleford]

East Asians are more androgynous by default, so I don't think it's that strange that their protagonists, who are typically young, don't look like extremely masculine by western standards.

their protagonists were fagged to appeal to fujos

if anything, japan was way ahead of the west in this ****

[ArcaneLurker]

East Asians are more androgynous by default, so I don't think it's that strange that their protagonists, who are typically young, don't look like extremely masculine by western standards.

That sounds a lot like John Cleese

Correct!

[Magick]

FFVIII - No gay stuff I can remember

I don't remember anything gay about Zell. Still in the "punky boy" era, that one.

[WhiteShark]

their protagonists were fagged to appeal to fujos

Proof? It seems an odd policy if the majority of players are male.

[rusty_shackleford]

Proof

Are you even aware of why the main character of FF12 is Vaan?

It seems an odd policy if the majority of players are male.

Because they weren't catering to their guaranteed customers, they were expanding their customer base. Increase in short-term profits for a long-term detriment.

[Oyster Sauce]

I once did a job in a very dirty apartment. Vividly recall the living room consisting of a mattress on the floor with a poster of Sephiroth on the wall across from it.

[WhiteShark]

Are you even aware of why the main character of FF12 is Vaan?

No, I have no idea. I was hoping you had some articles or interviews on specific examples or just in general.

[ArcaneLurker]

Proof

Are you even aware of why the main character of FF12 is Vaan?

It seems an odd policy if the majority of players are male.

Because they weren't catering to their guaranteed customers, they were expanding their customer base. Increase in short-term profits for a long-term detriment.

Is FfX-2 more or less gay for appealing to male Idol fans with this-
?
(Can only play as the trio of girls in this one).

[rusty_shackleford]

Are you even aware of why the main character of FF12 is Vaan?

No, I have no idea. I was hoping you had some articles or interviews on specific examples or just in general.

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Va ... the_scenes

[Magick]

Proof

Are you even aware of why the main character of FF12 is Vaan?

It seems an odd policy if the majority of players are male.

Because they weren't catering to their guaranteed customers, they were expanding their customer base. Increase in short-term profits for a long-term detriment.

Is FfX-2 more or less gay for appealing to male Idol fans with this-
?
(Can only play as the trio of girls in this one).

Hmmm was it really tho? I never bothered with X-2 since it just looked like it was made for girls, to me. All the silly idol ********, dancing, costumes and "sistahs" mentality, inc the ****. Zero appeal for me, as a man.
Also corrupted Yuna into some ******** that she would never be. The sort of thing the character would wake up from and be like "wow, that was a bad dream".

[ArcaneLurker]

Are you even aware of why the main character of FF12 is Vaan?

Because they weren't catering to their guaranteed customers, they were expanding their customer base. Increase in short-term profits for a long-term detriment.

Is FfX-2 more or less gay for appealing to male Idol fans with this-
?
(Can only play as the trio of girls in this one).

Hmmm was it really tho? I never bothered with X-2 since it just looked like it was made for girls, to me. All the silly idol ********, dancing, costumes and "sistahs" mentality, inc the ****. Zero appeal for me, as a man.
Also corrupted Yuna into some ******** that she would never be. The sort of thing the character would wake up from and be like "wow, that was a bad dream".

I thought that too, until I learnt about idol otaku fan culture in Japan. You can see anime such as Gintama routinely making fun of it.
There would have been more business in idol culture than appealing to girls. Then again, I suppose Rusty is saying that Slice of Life Vaan is a Fujo character?
I don't remember a hint of homoeroticism with other male characters.

[maidenhaver]

Proof

Are you even aware of why the main character of FF12 is Vaan?

It seems an odd policy if the majority of players are male.

Because they weren't catering to their guaranteed customers, they were expanding their customer base. Increase in short-term profits for a long-term detriment.

Is FfX-2 more or less gay for appealing to male Idol fans with this-
?
(Can only play as the trio of girls in this one).

Leave Rikku alone!

[Magick]

I don't know much about the male idol worshipping culture, however aren't the girls into that, too? As in isn't there loads of girls that want to BE them? I always assumed it was appealing to those.

The entire game seems very "girly", not just the idol bits. Isn't there whole thing about changing outfits? ("Dress Spheres" or something?) Seems like gameplay girls would like, rather than men.

[GhostCow]

I've said it a million times and I'll say it again. X-2 was really close to greatness. All they needed to do was make it turn based and replace Payne with someone hot.

[ArcaneLurker]

I've said it a million times and I'll say it again. X-2 was really close to greatness. All they needed to do was make it turn based and replace Payne with someone hot.

Really? I honestly never played it, despite playing 10, because I found the overt flamboyance off-putting.

I don't know much about the male idol worshipping culture, however aren't the girls into that, too? As in isn't there loads of girls that want to BE them? I always assumed it was appealing to those.

The entire game seems very "girly", not just the idol bits. Isn't there whole thing about changing outfits? ("Dress Spheres" or something?) Seems like gameplay girls would like, rather than men.

We're not talking about the average man around the globe here, we're talking about Japanese idol fans.
I'll compromise and say it was intended to appeal to both women and male idol fans.

[Jordy]

I've said it a million times and I'll say it again. X-2 was really close to greatness. All they needed to do was make it turn based and replace Payne with someone hot.

I'm amazed that it's come up enough for you to say it a million times.

The concept never appealed to me and I was surprised when a friend of mine, who had similar tastes as me, sung it's praises. Still never played it though.

[WhiteShark]

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Va ... the_scenes

Two articles are referenced with regards to the change of Vaan's character in development, and this is what they said:

That said, Vaan in particular is obviously a little bit younger than the series is used to and there are a lot of people on the development team who aren't necessarily feeling like this is the right character - it does kind of clash with the other characters and environments in the game. But, traditionally for the Japanese RPG market, you start out with a young, inexperienced character who grows throughout the story so, to an extent, having the lead be this younger immature character that is undeveloped is somewhat expected.

While Basch and his struggle to restore his good name remain a critical element of the final version of the game, the company's higher-ups reportedly insisted that teenage duo Vaan and Penelo be made the game's point-of-view characters. Final Fantasy has to connect with young players, and Basch (being an elderly 28 years of age) evidently wouldn't do.

Neither appears to claim that he was made effeminate in order to appeal to fujos; rather, it sounds like he was made younger and less experienced to be more relatable to children.

[rusty_shackleford]

https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Va ... the_scenes

Two articles are referenced with regards to the change of Vaan's character in development, and this is what they said:

That said, Vaan in particular is obviously a little bit younger than the series is used to and there are a lot of people on the development team who aren't necessarily feeling like this is the right character - it does kind of clash with the other characters and environments in the game. But, traditionally for the Japanese RPG market, you start out with a young, inexperienced character who grows throughout the story so, to an extent, having the lead be this younger immature character that is undeveloped is somewhat expected.

While Basch and his struggle to restore his good name remain a critical element of the final version of the game, the company's higher-ups reportedly insisted that teenage duo Vaan and Penelo be made the game's point-of-view characters. Final Fantasy has to connect with young players, and Basch (being an elderly 28 years of age) evidently wouldn't do.

Neither appears to claim that he was made effeminate in order to appeal to fujos; rather, it sounds like he was made younger and less experienced to be more relatable to children.

Q: There seems to be a trend of FF games towards younger looking, more effeminate male leads. Did you ever consider making a more rugged looking hero?

Lot's of laughter as the super translater person tries to figure out how to describe Vaan as "effeminate."

Yoshida: In the early stages of development the hero character was more rugged -- big and tough. As we started shaping up the scenario and taking into consideration the target demographic, the character became what you see today. There were other ideas tossed around.

Until motion capture and voice actor Kohei Takeda was cast for Vaan, the main character was actually a little more effeminate. With him playing the role, the character became more active, upbeat, bright and positive. The character would have been even more effeminate had Takeda not been cast.

The implication from this is either they were marketing to fujos, or they were marketing towards pedophiliac homosexuals.
Take your pick.

If the argument is "akshually, it was for teen boys to project onto!", I'm going to preemptively poke that bubble by pointing out how unpopular Vaan is primarily with people who were young teen males when FF12 released.

[Oyster Sauce]

(this is one of Rusty's iconic bizarre statements you don't have to engage with)

[rusty_shackleford]

(this is one of Rusty's iconic bizarre statements you don't have to engage with)

and taking into consideration the target demographic,

[WhiteShark]

Honestly, to me it sounds like 'effeminate' is the interviewers word and the interviewee accepts it only to contrast with the idea of a big tough hero, but I could be wrong. I find it implausible that the changes to Vaan were made to target a completely different demograhpic when Japanese media tends to be laser focused on one target and reasons were already given in the other sources for why they thought a younger, less hardened hero was desirable.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Don't tell me this doesn't look fun.

[ArcaneLurker]

That reminds me of another thing in the original FF7

[Rand]

Balthier should have been the main hero in FFXII.
The man is a sky pirate adventurer, ffs.
Vaan was just an annoying kid with no talents or abilities.

[maidenhaver]

Vaan was just an annoying kid with no talents or abilities.

They were just trying to make the most relatable protagonist.

[Shillitron]

[Shillitron]

Is he eating avocado toast?

Who else is enjoying {current_year} gaming? When do consooomers stop buying this garbage?