Underrail

[rusty_shackleford]

You can't read the label on my reload key anymore. But I did make it.

cheater

[Tweed]

I heard you need a good build so I asked on the Codex and they said throwing knives are good.

...

You can't read the label on my reload key anymore. But I did make it. Even that fight against four plasma robots in Expedition.

I do get some perverse pleasure from reload nightmares, like low level runs, playing original KOTC 2, etc. Of course I know reloading for favorable RNG isn't exactly amazing strategy, but bringing the right tools, squeezing out every tiny advantage, that appeals to me.

Throwing in general is a good supplemental skill, I used it on my hobo with a shotgun. Knives laced with crawler poison helped me beat a few guys that were giving me big trouble.

[madbringer]

I did a play thru with melee knives and focusing on dodging, it works surprisingly well (especially if you get that hobo light armor from the insane rat person). I have very mixed feelings about the game in whole; I loved the ost and atmosphere, but writing is more than a little dodgy at times. And **** having to walk to ten different merchants to sell loots, talk about tedious.

And that random boss stalker in a random subway subsection, talk about a sadistic fight.

[Tweed]

If only some 1337 hax04 could figure out how to mod the game since Styg is a jealous god and doesn't want us touching his code.

I really hope when all is said and done however many years into the future that he'll set the source code free, but I doubt it.

[wndrbr]

New DLC was announced

[Rand]

According to the dev, Styg, out Nov 1st.

No doubt this next month will be used to obfuscate and encrypt all of his spaghetti code.

[Rand]

If only some 1337 hax04 could figure out how to mod the game since Styg is a jealous god and doesn't want us touching his code.

I really hope when all is said and done however many years into the future that he'll set the source code free, but I doubt it.

He was offered to have a modding layer set up by a pro, but you could see in the thread how he felt like it was somehow a threat to him.
I'll post it if anyone's interested.

[Tweed]

That's depressing. Maybe someone can convince him at some point. You'd figure someone in touch with oldschool game development would understand the benefits of modding.

[Griffin]

If only some 1337 hax04 could figure out how to mod the game since Styg is a jealous god and doesn't want us touching his code.

I really hope when all is said and done however many years into the future that he'll set the source code free, but I doubt it.

He was offered to have a modding layer set up by a pro, but you could see in the thread how he felt like it was somehow a threat to him.
I'll post it if anyone's interested.

Please do.

[agentorange]

That's depressing. Maybe someone can convince him at some point. You'd figure someone in touch with oldschool game development would understand the benefits of modding.

It also leads to situations like terrible but extremely popular mods such as Jagged Alliance 2 1.13 and Deus Ex GMDX or Revision existing and those mods being recommended as the de facto "right way" to play the game even on a first playthrough. Granted it can also give a game longevity (the best example of this being Thief) and allow it to be made more easily compatible with newer systems (although often times because modders are modders these supposed compatibility patches and mods **** with the game in various ways, leading to many people playing an inferior version, so another reason not to trust modders), but considering Styg is still alive and active in maintaining the game I can understand him having trepidations about allowing random people to tamper with the thing that he made. At the end of the day he put 10 years or whatever into making something mostly on his own, and he wants people to play the version of the game that he made (since all the most popular mods will inevitably be **** like adding fast travel, adding infinite vendor cash, all sorts of changes that make it fundamentally not the game that he made), so I can't see why it should be a matter of course that he allow a bunch of people to fiddle with it and inevitably claim credit for "fixing" the game.

I assume this isn't the thread in question but it gives a glimpse into the brain of the type of person who demands that modding support be added to a game. https://stygiansoftware.com/forums/inde ... pic=8722.0

"That being said, there is a downside to modding, particularly in indie games and games in early access or beta testing. As an example we have the notorious Project Zomboid. A game which on paper is amazing, but the absurdly long dev time (which did speed up slightly at the time of writing) and pre-release added modding support, made the devs look like amateurs in comparison to modders, from cars, to guns, to maps, to features and bugfixes. And unlike Fallout 4 or Skyrim, which are buggy, but feature finished games you can play vanilla, PZ is not. This is something I assume Styg is aware of, therefore I'd like to openly say that it's best to add modding support at the very last development cycles."

So the developers did the real hard work of making the actual game and all the systems, but modders "embarrassed" them by bolting a bunch of **** onto the readymade framework that was made accessible to them. Raises the question of if modders are so great, why don't they just make their own entire game from the ground up? Yeah gee I wonder why Styg doesn't want to add support to encourage people like this.

[rusty_shackleford]

styg has spent 10 years doing MMO-tier balance patches to underrail, he is worse than a modder

[Tweed]

That's depressing. Maybe someone can convince him at some point. You'd figure someone in touch with oldschool game development would understand the benefits of modding.

It also leads to situations like terrible but extremely popular mods such as Jagged Alliance 2 1.13 and Deus Ex GMDX or Revision existing and those mods being recommended as the de facto "right way" to play the game even on a first playthrough. Granted it can also give a game longevity (the best example of this being Thief) and allow it to be made more easily compatible with newer systems (although often times because modders are modders these supposed compatibility patches and mods **** with the game in various ways, leading to many people playing an inferior version, so another reason not to trust modders), but considering Styg is still alive and active in maintaining the game I can understand him having trepidations about allowing random people to tamper with the thing that he made. At the end of the day he put 10 years or whatever into making something mostly on his own, and he wants people to play the version of the game that he made (since all the most popular mods will inevitably be **** like adding fast travel, adding infinite vendor cash, all sorts of changes that make it fundamentally not the game that he made), so I can't see why it should be a matter of course that he allow a bunch of people to fiddle with it and inevitably claim credit for "fixing" the game.

I assume this isn't the thread in question but it gives a glimpse into the brain of the type of person who demands that modding support be added to a game. https://stygiansoftware.com/forums/inde ... pic=8722.0

"That being said, there is a downside to modding, particularly in indie games and games in early access or beta testing. As an example we have the notorious Project Zomboid. A game which on paper is amazing, but the absurdly long dev time (which did speed up slightly at the time of writing) and pre-release added modding support, made the devs look like amateurs in comparison to modders, from cars, to guns, to maps, to features and bugfixes. And unlike Fallout 4 or Skyrim, which are buggy, but feature finished games you can play vanilla, PZ is not. This is something I assume Styg is aware of, therefore I'd like to openly say that it's best to add modding support at the very last development cycles."

So the developers did the real hard work of making the actual game and all the systems, but modders "embarrassed" them by bolting a bunch of **** onto the readymade framework that was made accessible to them. Raises the question of if modders are so great, why don't they just make their own entire game from the ground up? Yeah gee I wonder why Styg doesn't want to add support to encourage people like this.

I don't have to tell you that some of the most popular games began life as mods for other games and concepts that started as mods have been adapted by developers time and time again into the mainstream because sometimes the community actually has good ideas. I don't care about what some zoomer eceleb says is the right way to play a game because I have no more power over what they do than the Nexus dangerhairs have over me. If Styg doesn't want to deal with people messing with the game because they'll make **** that's his prerogative, but I call it an odd take. People have always made **** and always will and there's just as many people out there making **** games as there are making **** mods.

Zomboid is a cursed game anyway, they got their hard drives stolen at one point during develppment.

The real problem is how most mod hosting sites have horrible search options for sifting through the garbage.

[Acrux]

Deus Ex GMDX and being recommended as the de facto "right way" to play the game even on a first playthrough.

Anyone who says this is 100% correct, if they mean the RSD release.

[Rand]

If only some 1337 hax04 could figure out how to mod the game since Styg is a jealous god and doesn't want us touching his code.

I really hope when all is said and done however many years into the future that he'll set the source code free, but I doubt it.

He was offered to have a modding layer set up by a pro, but you could see in the thread how he felt like it was somehow a threat to him.
I'll post it if anyone's interested.

Please do.

Enjoy.
Should be readable enough if you click on the image and zoom in.

[CrazedGoblin]

I ain't reading All That **** *****.

[rusty_shackleford]

chad first party mod support ATOM RPG vs virgin obfuscated underfail

[Tweed]

Well that puts the kibosh on anything unless Styg decides down the line to make tools which seems unlikely.

[Rand]

I ain't reading All That **** *****.

Nobody said you should. I asked if anyone was interested and wanted me to post it, and one guy asked. He isn't you, so don't sweat it.

[Rand]

Well that puts the kibosh on anything unless Styg decides down the line to make tools which seems unlikely.

Frankly, Styg was such a **** about it, I wish the guy had done it up and publically released it just to spite the control freak.

[just]

maybe he's just ashamed of his yanderedev like code

[maidenhaver]

He was offered to have a modding layer set up by a pro, but you could see in the thread how he felt like it was somehow a threat to him.
I'll post it if anyone's interested.

Please do.

Enjoy.
Should be readable enough if you click on the image and zoom in.

I have no clue what Sty or Underwear is but I hate discord.

[Griffin]

Styg crazy banalcing the game, nerfing different builds etc ruined his own game by making it into another Pillows of Eternity, made by another ballinsefag. **** balance, in something like Troubleshooter you can really build fun powerful builds. I think Styg even messed up with how stuff works inside the game to prevent people from using CheatEngine

[Emphyrio]

Styg crazy banalcing the game, nerfing different builds etc ruined his own game by making it into another Pillows of Eternity, made by another ballinsefag. **** balance, in something like Troubleshooter you can really build fun powerful builds. I think Styg even messed up with how stuff works inside the game to prevent people from using CheatEngine

Troubleshooter isn't imbalanced.

[Griffin]

Styg crazy banalcing the game, nerfing different builds etc ruined his own game by making it into another Pillows of Eternity, made by another ballinsefag. **** balance, in something like Troubleshooter you can really build fun powerful builds. I think Styg even messed up with how stuff works inside the game to prevent people from using CheatEngine

Troubleshooter isn't imbalanced.

No, it's funbalanced!

I bet people like Styg, Sawyer etc. would think that it's not balanced because you can make crazy combos and builds on it with masteries.

[rusty_shackleford]

the counter to imbalance should be even more ridiculous enemies/encounters, not making the player weaker

[Lich]

Imbalance does not need to be countered.

[Emphyrio]

Styg crazy banalcing the game, nerfing different builds etc ruined his own game by making it into another Pillows of Eternity, made by another ballinsefag. **** balance, in something like Troubleshooter you can really build fun powerful builds. I think Styg even messed up with how stuff works inside the game to prevent people from using CheatEngine

Troubleshooter isn't imbalanced.

No, it's funbalanced!

I bet people like Styg, Sawyer etc. would think that it's not balanced because you can make crazy combos and builds on it with masteries.

OK, I don't think the combat in Underrail and Pillows is fun, and maybe the supposed obsession with making everything balanced instead of trying to make it actually fun is partly to blame, but the combat wouldn't be any better if it was imbalanced.

To me what "imbalance" means in a SP game is that there's options you'll never make use of because they're either super **** or there's something that's way better. Assuming you're playing to win.

Would it be "fun" if the only stat worth investing into was Dex? Or if the only weapon worth using was throwing knifes? Or if the only class worth using was Ciphers?

[Griffin]

Troubleshooter isn't imbalanced.

No, it's funbalanced!

I bet people like Styg, Sawyer etc. would think that it's not balanced because you can make crazy combos and builds on it with masteries.

OK, I don't think the combat in Underrail and Pillows is fun, and maybe the supposed obsession with making everything balanced instead of trying to make it actually fun is partly to blame, but the combat wouldn't be any better if it was imbalanced.

To me what "imbalance" means in a SP game is that there's options you'll never make use of because they're either super **** or there's something that's way better. Assuming you're playing to win.

Would it be "fun" if the only stat worth investing into was Dex? Or if the only weapon worth using was throwing knifes? Or if the only class worth using was Ciphers?

Yeah true, balancing should be done to make different builds fun to play, and made it so that different builds are viable to play, one of the problems I found in Underrail is that you need to have very optimized hyper focused build because nothing else seems to make much difference or do enough damage.

[Acrux]

That's exactly the problem with Underrail. You can't do anything fun.

[rusty_shackleford]

*puts a cooldown on your grenade*