What do you think about using mods when playing a game for the first time?

[ihateindians]

Kek, this ****** is trying to make out it's not "ok" to mod a single player game, even if one finds it more enjoyable. Where have we heard that before.

There was once a ****** on Codex named Typhoid something, I forget, but he was convinced it was masterful and fun to play a single character dungeon crawler with encumbrance enabled and it somehow added to the game. For maybe ten posts of pyramid quoting I went back and forth with this dented-head inbred ********** about how much better a game like Ultima Underworld becomes when you turn that garbage off. Then I had a revelation that some people simply love to cut the crusts off their bread, prefer putting milk in their coffee, wheeze-laugh at Will & Grace, and lick their finger before turning the page. They are what they are and all they will ever be.

[Big Red Dog]

If you play a game modded for the first time you've still never played the game and all of your opinions on it are meaningless.

this is a generic copy paste nonopinion opinion that an unironic /v/ poster would say while never having played their "favorite game" but rather watched 30 different lets plays of it

[rusty_shackleford]

Kek, this ****** is trying to make out it's not "ok" to mod a single player game, even if one finds it more enjoyable. Where have we heard that before.

There was once a ****** on Codex named Typhoid something, I forget, but he was convinced it was masterful and fun to play a single character dungeon crawler with encumbrance enabled and it somehow added to the game. For maybe ten posts of pyramid quoting I went back and forth with this dented-head inbred ********** about how much better a game like Ultima Underworld becomes when you turn that garbage off. Then I had a revelation that some people simply love to cut the crusts off their bread, prefer putting milk in their coffee, wheeze-laugh at Will & Grace, and lick their finger before turning the page. They are what they are and all they will ever be.

The games are designed around encumbrance, using mods to get around it is not "modding", it's just cheating. In games where a character attribute confers additional weight or item volume limits, it also negatively impacts the balance.
Basically, if you want to carry more **** then make a character with high strength you ******* cheater.

[UltraFan123]

It can also be fun to find ways around encumbrance. In the Pathfinder games from Owlcat for example you can easily increase the weight limit by giving yourself or your companions animal pets that grow stronger with level, and since encumbrance is dependent of the overall physical strength of the party, with enough animal companions you can carry the whole friggin world with you. kek

[Schizoid1488]

I used to be a staunch believer in the whole "never use any sort of modifications on the first playthrough to experience the game as the creator/artist intended", but it's obvious that's no longer applicable when there's no passion left in video games. There is no art, and there are no artists. There is only ****, and autists. Why would anyone care about the intended experience made by a mentally ill 50 year old ****** from california that sucks off hobos on the street? And even if the game is made by sane people it still doesn't matter because video games are a product first and foremost, the main reason for any video game existing is to either promote an ideology or to sell well, nothing else matters. So no matter how unfinished or **** the game is, or how the creator/writer is conflicted and wants to rewrite or change or add something, if the game needs to ship out to make money it'll ship out no matter what. Same with bugs, no game company wants to invest a decade worth of time to fix all the bugs and make all the balancing perfect, perfection doesn't exist and the push from 00% - 95% is nowhere near as tedious as the 95% to 99%. Just stop caring and use mods. Trying to play Baldur's Gate 3 and Starfield without depozzing mods is just masochism.

Quite literally the only media form that matters and has any art integrity is books, because the writer works alone and has complete control over every single letter, every single word, and every single sentence. There is no one breathing down your neck and you can be as autistic and delay as much as you want, as is the case with GRRM who rather prefers to spend most of his time ordering scat and furry porn from patreon and gooning to it, while only spending like 5 minutes during the post nut clarity to write books.

[Vergil]

Kek, this ****** is trying to make out it's not "ok" to mod a single player game, even if one finds it more enjoyable. Where have we heard that before.

For other's benefit, in Mass Effect the player character is a "Spectre" (Special Tactics and Reconnaissance). An elite 10/10 unit, answerable only to the citadel council of species, the highest tier of government. They literally carry all four weapon types (Pistol, Shotgun, Sniper Rifle and Assault Rifle) on their back everywhere they go throughout the entire game:


Clearly (as defined by completing and restarting the game with a NG+ / new character), the agent is indeed capable of looking down a glass scope, backed by their elite status in lore. (Proficiency to use it well is a separate stat, though).
Restriction of that to only 2nd / 3rd+ playthroughs is therefore a developer gameplay choice to force additional playthroughs. (Which I did actually do just once as a Soldier to enjoy his various special abilities with the Assault Rifle, and play a different character personality).


The game can indeed just as well be easily completed without using the sniper rifle (or other "locked" weapons) at all (despite carrying them around the entire time). With the amount of abilities the player has, plus companions of varying classes that can use different weapons, there is no situation where it would be "hard" to complete the game without it, just less fun, for some players.

I didn't mind that I could "use" (shoot full auto) the assault rifle but miss out on the special abilities / ammo types with it as a Vanguard. But it's ******* stupid to suggest one would lug a sniper rifle around literally everywhere, if the scope couldn't be used. The assault rifle without the other abilities is still a fast-shooting gun. A sniper rifle without a scope is ******* useless.
I modded that **** before I even had the chance to shoot anything with it because the concept was ridiculous.

I accept your concession and I'm not reading the rest of your seething long post.

[ihateindians]

The games are designed around encumbrance, using mods to get around it is not "modding", it's just cheating. In games where a character attribute confers additional weight or item volume limits, it also negatively impacts the balance.
Basically, if you want to carry more **** then make a character with high strength you ******* cheater.

"Oh yay, now I can leave behind a puddle of items like a dog leaves **** on the ground. I hope I didn't drop a key item needed to progress and have to come all the way back here 40 minutes later." Whoa, sick balancing. The very fabric of the game relies on the integrity of this autistic mechanic existing.

How about making the strength stat be about how hard you cave a skull in?

Item volume limits? Just stack the ******* things up to a certain number.

It can also be fun to find ways around encumbrance. In the Pathfinder games from Owlcat for example you can easily increase the weight limit by giving yourself or your companions animal pets that grow stronger with level, and since encumbrance is dependent of the overall physical strength of the party, with enough animal companions you can carry the whole friggin world with you. kek

While still a rancid mechanic meant to appeal to people who likely say "ludonarrative" and never once got stabbed over sounding like such a disreputable ***, encumbrance is less annoying in party-based RPGs since you can distribute the weight around. In an RPG with a single character you're controlling, it'll always be awful. It even doubles down on its retardation if said game has classes in it. Here comes the Wizard that needs to up their Strength. Dumb and spit-worthy. I mod that **** out every time and I love the Game Genie.

[rusty_shackleford]

"Oh yay, now I can leave behind a puddle of items like a dog leaves **** on the ground. I hope I didn't drop a key item needed to progress and have to come all the way back here 40 minutes later." Whoa, sick balancing. The very fabric of the game relies on the integrity of this autistic mechanic existing.

How about making the strength stat be about how hard you cave a skull in?

Item volume limits? Just stack the ******* things up to a certain number.

It's called trade-offs, it's one of the core parts of an RPG. Characters with high strength get to carry more, it's one of their non-combat benefits.
Wanting to be able to carry everything — and do everything — is a bethesdaism that has destroyed RPG design.

What do you give the fighter now that he no longer has non-combat utility? Magical torches? Shouting down doors? Why have classes at all if they just do the same thing except with different animations?

[ihateindians]

It's called trade-offs, it's one of the core parts of an RPG. Characters with high strength get to carry more, it's one of their non-combat benefits.
Wanting to be able to carry everything — and do everything — is a bethesdaism that has destroyed RPG design.

Then use the Tetris grid system instead of advocating for something that turns the game into a literal slog. Strength's non-combat benefits (lol) can be bodychecking a locked door down or something cooler than being a donkey.

[rusty_shackleford]

It's called trade-offs, it's one of the core parts of an RPG. Characters with high strength get to carry more, it's one of their non-combat benefits.
Wanting to be able to carry everything — and do everything — is a bethesdaism that has destroyed RPG design.

Then use the Tetris grid system instead of advocating for something that turns the game into a literal slog. Strength's non-combat benefits (lol) can be bodychecking a locked door down or something cooler than being a donkey.

Probably because strength doesn't let you carry more volume.

Strength's non-combat benefits (lol) can be bodychecking a locked door down or something cooler than being a donkey.

I mentioned this — you're just making all the classes the same and taking away any unique utility.

[StudiedAsleep]

Any mods that remove disgusting rainbow haired characters and replaces them with better looking character models. Graphics mods are also a good choice. On the other hand adding new items or new maps to a game you haven’t played yet feels wrong.

[logincrash]

Trying to play Starfield at all is just masochism.

Fixed that for you.

[Vergil]

"Oh yay, now I can leave behind a puddle of items like a dog leaves **** on the ground. I hope I didn't drop a key item needed to progress and have to come all the way back here 40 minutes later." Whoa, sick balancing. The very fabric of the game relies on the integrity of this autistic mechanic existing.

How about making the strength stat be about how hard you cave a skull in?

Item volume limits? Just stack the ******* things up to a certain number.

It's called trade-offs, it's one of the core parts of an RPG. Characters with high strength get to carry more, it's one of their non-combat benefits.
Wanting to be able to carry everything — and do everything — is a bethesdaism that has destroyed RPG design.

What do you give the fighter now that he no longer has non-combat utility? Magical torches? Shouting down doors? Why have classes at all if they just do the same thing except with different animations?

Trade offs aren't FUN tho I should be the golden god and do whatever I want anything else is just stupid and try hard!

[CSM-101]

Trying to play Starfield at all is just masochism.

Fixed that for you.

I believe Starfield can be a good game. If it's completely ripped apart in a total conversion mod and turned into something entirely different.

[Xenich]

If you play a game modded for the first time you've still never played the game and all of your opinions on it are meaningless.

I don't know how anyone could have played Oblivion through unmodded, it was pure garbage with all its console crap, mainstream design, hand holding, etc... I made it into the game a bit before I stopped playing in disgust. FCOM made the game actually enjoyable.

[Xenich]

"Oh yay, now I can leave behind a puddle of items like a dog leaves **** on the ground. I hope I didn't drop a key item needed to progress and have to come all the way back here 40 minutes later." Whoa, sick balancing. The very fabric of the game relies on the integrity of this autistic mechanic existing.

How about making the strength stat be about how hard you cave a skull in?

Item volume limits? Just stack the ******* things up to a certain number.

It's called trade-offs, it's one of the core parts of an RPG. Characters with high strength get to carry more, it's one of their non-combat benefits.
Wanting to be able to carry everything — and do everything — is a bethesdaism that has destroyed RPG design.

What do you give the fighter now that he no longer has non-combat utility? Magical torches? Shouting down doors? Why have classes at all if they just do the same thing except with different animations?

Trade offs aren't FUN tho I should be the golden god and do whatever I want anything else is just stupid and try hard!

Tell me you are a mainstream gamer without telling me you are a mainstream gamer.

Kek, this ****** is trying to make out it's not "ok" to mod a single player game, even if one finds it more enjoyable. Where have we heard that before.

There was once a ****** on Codex named Typhoid something, I forget, but he was convinced it was masterful and fun to play a single character dungeon crawler with encumbrance enabled and it somehow added to the game. For maybe ten posts of pyramid quoting I went back and forth with this dented-head inbred ********** about how much better a game like Ultima Underworld becomes when you turn that garbage off. Then I had a revelation that some people simply love to cut the crusts off their bread, prefer putting milk in their coffee, wheeze-laugh at Will & Grace, and lick their finger before turning the page. They are what they are and all they will ever be.

The games are designed around encumbrance, using mods to get around it is not "modding", it's just cheating. In games where a character attribute confers additional weight or item volume limits, it also negatively impacts the balance.
Basically, if you want to carry more **** then make a character with high strength you ******* cheater.

Exactly why I enjoy games less these days. Risk/reward, choice and consequence, balancing decisions based on trade offs, etc... is core "game" design in RPGs and something mainstream gamers absolutely despise.

This goes back to the "I play for my fun" position of making "entertainment", not "games" problem.

[Big Red Dog]

I don't know how anyone could have played Oblivion through unmodded, it was pure garbage with all its console crap, mainstream design, hand holding, etc... I made it into the game a bit before I stopped playing in disgust. FCOM made the game actually enjoyable.

I have never modded oblivion (other than patch mods) and i've played through it hundreds of times and 100%ed it at least 10 times. you might just hate fun

[KOS-MOS]

Trying to play Starfield at all is just masochism.

Fixed that for you.

I believe Starfield can be a good game. If it's completely ripped apart in a total conversion mod and turned into something entirely different.

"Starfield might be great if you were actually playing a total different game." Hmm

[logincrash]

i've played through it hundreds of times and 100%ed it at least 10 times

I was going to make fun of you, but I myself have 100% completed every Mass Effect and Dragon Age game at least 4 times each.

[Vergil]

It's called trade-offs, it's one of the core parts of an RPG. Characters with high strength get to carry more, it's one of their non-combat benefits.
Wanting to be able to carry everything — and do everything — is a bethesdaism that has destroyed RPG design.

What do you give the fighter now that he no longer has non-combat utility? Magical torches? Shouting down doors? Why have classes at all if they just do the same thing except with different animations?

Trade offs aren't FUN tho I should be the golden god and do whatever I want anything else is just stupid and try hard!

Tell me you are a mainstream gamer without telling me you are a mainstream gamer.

There was once a ****** on Codex named Typhoid something, I forget, but he was convinced it was masterful and fun to play a single character dungeon crawler with encumbrance enabled and it somehow added to the game. For maybe ten posts of pyramid quoting I went back and forth with this dented-head inbred ********** about how much better a game like Ultima Underworld becomes when you turn that garbage off. Then I had a revelation that some people simply love to cut the crusts off their bread, prefer putting milk in their coffee, wheeze-laugh at Will & Grace, and lick their finger before turning the page. They are what they are and all they will ever be.

The games are designed around encumbrance, using mods to get around it is not "modding", it's just cheating. In games where a character attribute confers additional weight or item volume limits, it also negatively impacts the balance.
Basically, if you want to carry more **** then make a character with high strength you ******* cheater.

Exactly why I enjoy games less these days. Risk/reward, choice and consequence, balancing decisions based on trade offs, etc... is core "game" design in RPGs and something mainstream gamers absolutely despise.

This goes back to the "I play for my fun" position of making "entertainment", not "games" problem.

I'm a mainstream gamer because I want games to have trade offs and limitations instead of just letting one character be a jack of all trades master of all and do whatever they want?

Or did you miss the sarcasm completely?

[Xenich]

I don't know how anyone could have played Oblivion through unmodded, it was pure garbage with all its console crap, mainstream design, hand holding, etc... I made it into the game a bit before I stopped playing in disgust. FCOM made the game actually enjoyable.

I have never modded oblivion (other than patch mods) and i've played through it hundreds of times and 100%ed it at least 10 times. you might just hate fun

Level scaling sucks, it is a ******** (no risk, no danger, always what you can beat).

The constant hand holding (ie go here, go a little further, you are getting close to your objective... your objective is before you! Follow the bouncing ball!),

The "phone it in" part of the game of with repetitious content.

The heavy addition of numerous fast travel points... FFS complain about an immersive world, then fast port everywhere?

They changed the development system compared to Morrowind, I didn't care for.

Anyway, FCOM mod (multiple overhauls) fixed tons of problems, added numerous quests (with no hand holding), made encounters varied in level where you could not beat them until you were higher level (ie the world was dangerous), and added numerous mobs of different types throughout the world etc...

The default game was a console game made for the console players, it was definitely pandering to a different crowd.

[Xenich]

Trade offs aren't FUN tho I should be the golden god and do whatever I want anything else is just stupid and try hard!

Tell me you are a mainstream gamer without telling me you are a mainstream gamer.

The games are designed around encumbrance, using mods to get around it is not "modding", it's just cheating. In games where a character attribute confers additional weight or item volume limits, it also negatively impacts the balance.
Basically, if you want to carry more **** then make a character with high strength you ******* cheater.

Exactly why I enjoy games less these days. Risk/reward, choice and consequence, balancing decisions based on trade offs, etc... is core "game" design in RPGs and something mainstream gamers absolutely despise.

This goes back to the "I play for my fun" position of making "entertainment", not "games" problem.

I'm a mainstream gamer because I want games to have trade offs and limitations instead of just letting one character be a jack of all trades master of all and do whatever they want?

Or did you miss the sarcasm completely?

NM, your response was sarcasm I see... carry on.

[Big Red Dog]

Level scaling sucks, it is a ******** (no risk, no danger, always what you can beat).

a game doesn't have to be hard to be fun, and any game with nondice combat will be basically impossible to die in

The constant hand holding (ie go here, go a little further, you are getting close to your objective... your objective is before you! Follow the bouncing ball!),

that's just not true, you can easily just not look at the compass. if you cant peel your eyes away from the compass that's really your fault. its like complaining that sparknotes spoiled the book you were reading

The "phone it in" part of the game of with the repetitious content.

can you give me an example of the repetitious content? oblivion has the best quests of any ES game

The heavy addition of numerous fast travel points... FFS complain about an immersive world, then fast port everywhere?

yeah you can but you chose to do that, you can choose to ask you wife's bvll to play the game for you to but nobody is forcing you to do that. i would compare this again to reading a book but this time you just read the first chapter flipped to the last chapter and read that, you CAN do that but you can also not

They changed the development system compared to Morrowind, I didn't care for.

morrowind is probably the worst scrolls game anyways
oblivion>daggerfall>skyrim>morrowind maybe its better than arena but i've never played that

Anyway, FCOM mod (multiple overhauls) fixed tons of problems, added numerous quests (with no hand holding), made encounters varied in level where you could not beat them until you were higher level (ie the world was dangerous), and added numerous mobs of different types throughout the world etc...

i dont care about whatever that is, i looked at their mod page and the promotional video was a disgusting enb bloom vomit pile so it closed that tab. i can't imagine someone that thinks that looks good has any idea what good gameplay or enemy/quest design is

The default game was a console game made for the console players, it was definitely pandering to a different crowd.

big cope seethe mald etc

[rusty_shackleford]

oblivion is cozy-maxxed therefore it's the best TES game

[loregamer]

it also negatively impacts the balance.

What if the game is unbalanced in vanilla though?

[rusty_shackleford]

it also negatively impacts the balance.

What if the game is unbalanced in vanilla though?

By "negatively impacts the balance", I mean the developer's intended balance — the way the game was meant to be experienced. Yes, this is an important factor — I assume what your OP was actually about. If you change the intended mechanics, you're no longer playing the same game, and I'd say to argue otherwise is putting too much emphasis on the story of games rather than the actual aspect of playing them.
Don't confuse this with some abstract "balanced game" concept that doesn't actually exist.


It's akin to reading an ebonics translation of Odyssey and saying you've read the Odyssey.

[Oyster Sauce]

it also negatively impacts the balance.

What if the game is unbalanced in vanilla though?

By "negatively impacts the balance", I mean the developer's intended balance — the way the game was meant to be experienced. Yes, this is an important factor — I assume what your OP was actually about. If you change the intended mechanics, you're no longer playing the same game, and I'd say to argue otherwise is putting too much emphasis on the story of games rather than the actual aspect of playing them.
Don't confuse this with some abstract "balanced game" concept that doesn't actually exist.


It's akin to reading an ebonics translation of Odyssey and saying you've read the Odyssey.

*unzips jsawyer* your move

[Vergil]

Level scaling sucks, it is a ******** (no risk, no danger, always what you can beat).

a game doesn't have to be hard to be fun, and any game with nondice combat will be basically impossible to die in

The constant hand holding (ie go here, go a little further, you are getting close to your objective... your objective is before you! Follow the bouncing ball!),

that's just not true, you can easily just not look at the compass. if you cant peel your eyes away from the compass that's really your fault. its like complaining that sparknotes spoiled the book you were reading

The "phone it in" part of the game of with the repetitious content.

can you give me an example of the repetitious content? oblivion has the best quests of any ES game

The heavy addition of numerous fast travel points... FFS complain about an immersive world, then fast port everywhere?

yeah you can but you chose to do that, you can choose to ask you wife's bvll to play the game for you to but nobody is forcing you to do that. i would compare this again to reading a book but this time you just read the first chapter flipped to the last chapter and read that, you CAN do that but you can also not

They changed the development system compared to Morrowind, I didn't care for.

morrowind is probably the worst scrolls game anyways
oblivion>daggerfall>skyrim>morrowind maybe its better than arena but i've never played that

Anyway, FCOM mod (multiple overhauls) fixed tons of problems, added numerous quests (with no hand holding), made encounters varied in level where you could not beat them until you were higher level (ie the world was dangerous), and added numerous mobs of different types throughout the world etc...

i dont care about whatever that is, i looked at their mod page and the promotional video was a disgusting enb bloom vomit pile so it closed that tab. i can't imagine someone that thinks that looks good has any idea what good gameplay or enemy/quest design is

The default game was a console game made for the console players, it was definitely pandering to a different crowd.

big cope seethe mald etc

Our first down syndrome poster I'm glad Rusty is giving opportunities to underprivileged groups.

[loregamer]

By "negatively impacts the balance", I mean the developer's intended balance — the way the game was meant to be experienced. Yes, this is an important factor — I assume what your OP was actually about. If you change the intended mechanics, you're no longer playing the same game, and I'd say to argue otherwise is putting too much emphasis on the story of games rather than the actual aspect of playing them.
Don't confuse this with some abstract "balanced game" concept that doesn't actually exist.


It's akin to reading an ebonics translation of Odyssey and saying you've read the Odyssey.

[Big Red Dog]

Our first down syndrome poster I'm glad Rusty is giving opportunities to underprivileged groups.

downies are over privileged if anything they can do anything they want without real consequences, and the government pays them to exist