Underrail Infusion

[rusty_shackleford]

I believe they realized that the beautiful 2D art is just too time consuming to draw, so they decided to make some sacrifices.

Slop for the content god.

[Statesman]

After comparing it, I actually prefer Underrail's graphics

that's a screenshot from the Black Sea expansion. It looks way different from the base game, and it also took Stygian ages to release.

I believe they realized that the beautiful 2D art is just too time consuming to draw, so they decided to make some sacrifices.

Yeah, it all started when Styg realized using 2D made displaying character customization and equipment too labor intensive.

[rusty_shackleford]

I'd like to reiterate that the point isn't the shift from 2D assets to 3D, but an entirely new style. I just don't loik it.

I even recall earlier alpha screenshots that looked much closer to Underrail.

[edit]
Going and checking suggests it IS still using pre-rendered 2D backgrounds, the characters are real-time 3D assets.
So that's not even an excuse.

And this is what the early alpha stuff looked like:

Environment1.png.webp

This 2022 update says the backgrounds are prerendered, has this changed?
https://stygiansoftware.com/forums/inde ... pic=8939.0

So, yeah, the issue is it uses an entirely new style. I just don't loik it.

[wndrbr]

[roldet]

So what is the verdict for that advanced hacking mini game? Clanking your keyboard like a movie hacker sounds fun but only 1 percent of playerbase can use and enjoy it.

[logincrash]

So what is the verdict for that advanced hacking mini game? Clanking your keyboard like a movie hacker sounds fun but only 1 percent of playerbase can use and enjoy it.

I think any kind of lockpicking/hacking minigame is gay. Either my character is skilled enough to unlock/hack stuff, or I as a player am dexterous/clever enough to do a minigame.
This extends to tabletop games too. I shouldn't have to deliver a 10/10 Oscar worthy monologue to convince a king if my Persuasion skill is high and I rolled high, just as I am not forced to bench 400lbs before my Barbarian character can move a boulder that's blocking the door or whatever.
I like what Underrail does with lockpicking and hacking. It's based entirely on your character's skills but it still requires timing, lest you get spotted.

[Finarfin]

So what is the verdict for that advanced hacking mini game? Clanking your keyboard like a movie hacker sounds fun but only 1 percent of playerbase can use and enjoy it.

Could be cool but it should be a toggle. Normal hacking as in the first game and the hackerman mini game. He could also just make it so that if you don't want it, you see the screen and the inputs being automated instead.

[J1M]

I appreciate the variety that well-designed minigames provide.

Hacking is tricky if it is required. Or feels like it is required. I think it is best to retain a fun minigame, and then offer bypass options for players that tire of it or detest minigames. For example, a somewhat cheap/plentiful item that offers guaranteed success that has a limit to the number you can carry (so that you don't feel the need to horde these items "for later"). Or a character building option that allows the character to skip the minigame, such as a talent/perk. Just as other character building options can trivialize other aspects of the game. The danger of this route that many games fall into is making them for people who like the minigame instead of those who want to skip it. That leads to what feel like mandatory hacking talents just to play the minigame (Human Revolution is an example). Now you have people who want to skip the minigame unable to and people who like it feel it has been trivialized.

Devils advocate: for those advocating to eliminate the hacking minigame, can we also add a toggle for stealth? So that gameplay can be skipped with auto-success? One could argue stealth is a minigame too even though it often involves a skill check. How about a combat toggle with a little hamburger icon?

TLDR: I think you should be able to skip a hacking minigame at the cost of character building points, not a game setting.

[Tadeusz]

Devils advocate: for those advocating to eliminate the hacking minigame, can we also add a toggle for stealth? So that gameplay can be skipped with auto-success? One could argue stealth is a minigame too even though it often involves a skill check.

I don't understand what's your idea. Stealth is a part of interaction with enemies, it's a dynamic process in the game world. Minigames are about a static interaction with some object in our case.
Hacking minigame seems weird to me but perhaps Linux admins can appreciate it.

[J1M]

Devils advocate: for those advocating to eliminate the hacking minigame, can we also add a toggle for stealth? So that gameplay can be skipped with auto-success? One could argue stealth is a minigame too even though it often involves a skill check.

I don't understand what's your idea. Stealth is a part of interaction with enemies, it's a dynamic process in the game world. Minigames are about a static interaction with some object in our case.
Hacking minigame seems weird to me but perhaps Linux admins can appreciate it.

It's about where a game wants to place the level of detail and player agency.

Conversations can be cinematics where the character gets no choices. Or they can be trees of choices with modifiers like charisma and reputation. Same for other areas of a game.

Many games choose to omit stealth. My point is that I think hacking can offer at least as much depth as stealth with regards to gameplay. I've seen many games with stealth. Not many games with good hacking systems. I'd rather play a game that does something new with hacking than another game that is almost the same as others I have played.

If hacking only controls access to a door, then perhaps you have a point. But if hacking unlocks additional information, which in turn leads to new topics you can discuss with NPCs, or new quests you can complete, hidden items, etc, it is not simply interacting with another type of lockpicking.

[Tadeusz]

Many games choose to omit stealth. My point is that I think hacking can offer at least as much depth as stealth with regards to gameplay. I've seen many games with stealth. Not many games with good hacking systems. I'd rather play a game that does something new with hacking than another game that is almost the same as others I have played.

I see your point. I think of stealth in Underrail as one of combat strategies and hacking and lockpicking as something auxiliary so that's why the latter can be automated and the former not. I'd like to see a good hacking system too but I guess I'm not very fond of interacting via console commands as it can be annoying in real life. But we'll see, perhaps I'll change my opinion if I can see how this mechanic works exactly.

[J1M]

Many games choose to omit stealth. My point is that I think hacking can offer at least as much depth as stealth with regards to gameplay. I've seen many games with stealth. Not many games with good hacking systems. I'd rather play a game that does something new with hacking than another game that is almost the same as others I have played.

I see your point. I think of stealth in Underrail as one of combat strategies and hacking and lockpicking as something auxiliary so that's why the latter can be automated and the former not. I'd like to see a good hacking system too but I guess I'm not very fond of interacting via console commands as it can be annoying in real life. But we'll see, perhaps I'll change my opinion if I can see how this mechanic works exactly.

I too generally prefer Uplink or Human Revolution style hacking over memorizing and typing commands. There are more obscure games that have iterated on those approaches. I'm also open to the idea of "cyberspace" like in the Megaman Battle Network games, where "hacking" is more like playing a dungeon that can adhere to a different set of physics and you have a different set of equipment.

[Tweed]

This will be great until you want to replay the game.

[Xenich]

Redditards are trying to ruin Styg by spreading info about him posting homophobic slurs in Underrail discord server.

Why yes, I will buy your game now Styg.

"Don't by this game, this guy hates ****!!!"

Umm....

Day 1 purchase.

[Acrux]

It's fine to buy it. Just don't play it.

[Xenich]

It's fine to buy it. Just don't play it.

I liked the first one, though I hated how Styg dumbed it down over time. I didn't read much into the game (lost in the meta), past that is there something I should be concerned about?

[Acrux]

It's fine to buy it. Just don't play it.

I liked the first one, though I hated how Styg dumbed it down over time. I didn't read much into the game (lost in the meta), past that is there something I should be concerned about?

I haven't looked into it either; I just don't care for many of Styg's design decisions.

[Xenich]

It's fine to buy it. Just don't play it.

I liked the first one, though I hated how Styg dumbed it down over time. I didn't read much into the game (lost in the meta), past that is there something I should be concerned about?

I haven't looked into it either; I just don't care for many of Styg's design decisions.

Agreed, but I will take silly "game design" directions any day over the ****** crap I see these days. Heck, I find some Win 95 era crap games far more enjoyable over modern games these days.

[wndrbr]

Styg said that the minigame will be present for players with insufficient hacking/lockpicking skills. If your character is skilled enough, you will be able to skip the minigame.

[rusty_shackleford]

poor man's trudograd

[logincrash]

poor man's trudograd

>trudograd
>toilcity
More like Toiletcity 'cause it's so ******, amirite?

[logincrash]

Oh, also, more like Turdograd because it's full of crap, amirite?

[wndrbr]

amirite?

no

[Tweed]

So if you're a linux nerd you never need to learn hacking, that's cheating.

[rusty_shackleford]

being able to bypass skillchecks with metaknowledge is anti-rpg

[Griffin]

I lost interest in Underrail when Styg went crazy with his balancefaggotry, he's as bad as ******* Soywyer with it. "This build is too powerful, I have to nerf it!".

[Tadeusz]

Styg said that the minigame will be present for players with insufficient hacking/lockpicking skills. If your character is skilled enough, you will be able to skip the minigame.

Sounds weird to me. Will I be able to conserve skill points by mastering the minigame? Or will there be a skill requirement to even start the minigame?

[Kalarion]

So what is the verdict for that advanced hacking mini game? Clanking your keyboard like a movie hacker sounds fun but only 1 percent of playerbase can use and enjoy it.

I think any kind of lockpicking/hacking minigame is gay. Either my character is skilled enough to unlock/hack stuff, or I as a player am dexterous/clever enough to do a minigame.
This extends to tabletop games too. I shouldn't have to deliver a 10/10 Oscar worthy monologue to convince a king if my Persuasion skill is high and I rolled high, just as I am not forced to bench 400lbs before my Barbarian character can move a boulder that's blocking the door or whatever.
I like what Underrail does with lockpicking and hacking. It's based entirely on your character's skills but it still requires timing, lest you get spotted.

I like interactive minigames being affected by a combination of player interaction and character skill. Consider Wizardry 8's lockpick sequence, or Deus Ex. You do some clicking, maybe type in very simple and well-documented commands, you see instant skill-based feedback. Boom, done, dopamine hit achieved.

For hacking, consider something like: get on the screen. Everyone gets access to three commands.
Show
Read
Search

Where Show will show you what's available to Read, and Search tries to pick up new Reads. Use Read, the contents might be fully or semi-scrambled based on your skill (think Fallout 3). Use Search, you get results based on your skill.

Advanced hackers get more Search results, with more readable Search content. Eventually they might get access to 1-2 new commands. Something like Exfil (immediately Search with perfect results) and Decrypt (immediate unscrambling of all items).

I think that might be a good way to do it.

[J1M]

Styg said that the minigame will be present for players with insufficient hacking/lockpicking skills. If your character is skilled enough, you will be able to skip the minigame.

Sounds weird to me. Will I be able to conserve skill points by mastering the minigame? Or will there be a skill requirement to even start the minigame?

Sounds exactly like being able to invest less points in stealth because you understand the light/sound/enemies better. Or being able to invest less points in combat because you know the best ways to use action points.

[Tadeusz]

Advanced hackers get more Search results, with more readable Search content. Eventually they might get access to 1-2 new commands. Something like Exfil (immediately Search with perfect results) and Decrypt (immediate unscrambling of all items).

Reminds me of working with computers in VtMB. I'd like to see something like that as well.