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Diablo, Path of Exile, Last Epoch and other lootcrawlers

For RPGs that require a persistently online connection.
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Post by somerandomdude »

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 04:09
Alright, hear me out.
You have items that aren't randomly generated crap but items that had thought and time put into their design and a reason to exist in a specific place or on a specific character.
Such as no random drops, 100% crafted or story/level obtained items? Those games do exist, but I can't think of any off the top of my head in this particular subgenre. Random item types and randomly rolled mods on said items is a feature that goes along with this subgenre.

What attracts people to these types of games varies. The OCD gambler types enjoy sifting through piles of **** because they might possibly miss that 1 in a million item if they don't. They're people who're incapable of realistically accessing probability, and instead of basing their approach on a realistic here and now, they're more concerned with "what ifs".

The reason I like it is there isn't a subgenre of RPG where player choice has a bigger impact on success or failure. if my choices are smart enough, then I'll be able to roll with the punches that RNG throws at me, which is an uncertainty factor that makes a player have to adapt, providing the game is sufficiently challenging. Loot filters as robust as LE's allow players like me to remove the *** from the pie, and be perfectly content with the possibility that I could miss out on a 1 in a million item I could filter out by mistake.
Last edited by somerandomdude on March 16th, 2024, 04:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Acrux »

somerandomdude wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 04:39
What attracts people to these types of games varies.
I'd be interested in seeing the personality profiles on these: the gambler, the delusional (larper), the sociopath (griefer), the autist (min-maxer), etc.

Mostly, I'd be interested because I've never played an arpg that I enjoy.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

I assume modern ones are mostly full of people who like to speedrun the same content over and over endlessly, not even playing the game but just optimizing it. Probably high % of *****.
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Post by somerandomdude »

Acrux wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 04:46
somerandomdude wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 04:39
What attracts people to these types of games varies.
I'd be interested in seeing the personality profiles on these: the gambler, the delusional (larper), the sociopath (griefer), the autist (min-maxer), etc.

Mostly, I'd be interested because I've never played an arpg that I enjoy.
I've played plenty of ARPGs that I did not enjoy, mostly to do with the game being devoid of any sort of challenge.
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Post by Decline »

somerandomdude wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 04:39
The reason I like it is there isn't a subgenre of RPG where player choice has a bigger impact on success or failure. if my choices are smart enough, then I'll be able to roll with the punches that RNG throws at me, which is an uncertainty factor that makes a player have to adapt, providing the game is sufficiently challenging.
This. Diablo - and ultimately LE - are just an evolution of Nethack, one of the best games ever made when it comes to C&C and of course Rogue. Obviously the head-in-trashcan highschool DND nerds never heard of these games and can't, nay, don't want to understand what kind of games the people played that used to put their head into trashcans.

It's basically the virgin D&D nerd vs. the chad Nethack elite.
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Post by Decline »

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 04:49
I assume modern ones are mostly full of people who like to speedrun the same content over and over endlessly, not even playing the game but just optimizing it. Probably high % of *****.
Speedrunners infest any type of game these days.
rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 04:09
You have items that aren't randomly generated crap but items that had thought and time put into their design and a reason to exist in a specific place or on a specific character.
Again, you don't actually play games.
Last edited by Decline on March 16th, 2024, 20:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by asf »

speedrunning is the ultimate form of retardation
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Decline wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 20:15
somerandomdude wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 04:39
The reason I like it is there isn't a subgenre of RPG where player choice has a bigger impact on success or failure. if my choices are smart enough, then I'll be able to roll with the punches that RNG throws at me, which is an uncertainty factor that makes a player have to adapt, providing the game is sufficiently challenging.
This. Diablo - and ultimately LE - are just an evolution of Nethack, one of the best games ever made when it comes to C&C and of course Rogue. Obviously the head-in-trashcan highschool DND nerds never heard of these games and can't, nay, don't want to understand what kind of games the people played that used to put their head into trashcans.

It's basically the virgin D&D nerd vs. the chad Nethack elite.
ah yes I must have forgotten that time I killed an enemy in nethack and it dropped 500 items
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Post by Tweed »

Diablo is based on Angband.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Tweed wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 20:28
Diablo is based on Angband.
Fortnite is based on Doom, it's practically a Doomclone.
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Post by Tweed »

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 20:29
Tweed wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 20:28
Diablo is based on Angband.
Fortnite is based on Doom, it's practically a Doomclone.
Cope.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Tweed wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 20:31
rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 20:29
Tweed wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 20:28
Diablo is based on Angband.
Fortnite is based on Doom, it's practically a Doomclone.
Cope.
You can't explain how I'm wrong.
This game has as much in common with Nethack as the average so-called "roguelike" deckbuilder on steam does.
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Post by asf »

nethack is the pretentious down syndrome cousin of rpgs
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Post by Decline »

Tweed wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 20:28
Diablo is based on Angband.
Brevik said that he was inspired by Nethack/Rogue and wanted to make a turn based game originally.
Eventually he gave in to pressure coming from Blizzard. And that's basically where the magic began. Blizzard were masters of real-time simulation games after all.
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Post by Tweed »

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 20:32
Tweed wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 20:31
rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 20:29


Fortnite is based on Doom, it's practically a Doomclone.
Cope.
You can't explain how I'm wrong.
This game has as much in common with Nethack as the average so-called "roguelike" deckbuilder on steam does.
You're getting rather worked up over this.
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Post by Decline »

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 20:21
Decline wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 20:15
somerandomdude wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 04:39
The reason I like it is there isn't a subgenre of RPG where player choice has a bigger impact on success or failure. if my choices are smart enough, then I'll be able to roll with the punches that RNG throws at me, which is an uncertainty factor that makes a player have to adapt, providing the game is sufficiently challenging.
This. Diablo - and ultimately LE - are just an evolution of Nethack, one of the best games ever made when it comes to C&C and of course Rogue. Obviously the head-in-trashcan highschool DND nerds never heard of these games and can't, nay, don't want to understand what kind of games the people played that used to put their head into trashcans.

It's basically the virgin D&D nerd vs. the chad Nethack elite.
ah yes I must have forgotten that time I killed an enemy in nethack and it dropped 500 items
Enemies in ARPGs rarely drop more than 1 item. There's just a whole lot of them. Again, you don't actually play any games.
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Post by Tweed »

Decline wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 20:35
Tweed wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 20:28
Diablo is based on Angband.
Brevik said that he was inspired by Nethack/Rogue and wanted to make a turn based game originally.
Eventually he gave in to pressure coming from Blizzard. And that's basically where the magic began. Blizzard were masters of real-time simulation games after all.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Decline wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 20:37
rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 20:21
Decline wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 20:15


This. Diablo - and ultimately LE - are just an evolution of Nethack, one of the best games ever made when it comes to C&C and of course Rogue. Obviously the head-in-trashcan highschool DND nerds never heard of these games and can't, nay, don't want to understand what kind of games the people played that used to put their head into trashcans.

It's basically the virgin D&D nerd vs. the chad Nethack elite.
ah yes I must have forgotten that time I killed an enemy in nethack and it dropped 500 items
Enemies in ARPGs rarely drop more than 1 item. There's just a whole lot of them. Again, you don't actually play any games.
I also forgot that time in nethack where I ran around in circles while everything exploded.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Tweed wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 20:37
Decline wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 20:35
Tweed wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 20:28
Diablo is based on Angband.
Brevik said that he was inspired by Nethack/Rogue and wanted to make a turn based game originally.
Eventually he gave in to pressure coming from Blizzard. And that's basically where the magic began. Blizzard were masters of real-time simulation games after all.
Diablo was a fluke, Diablo 2 was ****, and Brevik never made another good game.
Diablo was good because of its atmosphere only.
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Image
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

If you're having so much fun playing the game, why aren't you playing it?
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Post by Decline »

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 20:21
Decline wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 20:15
somerandomdude wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 04:39
The reason I like it is there isn't a subgenre of RPG where player choice has a bigger impact on success or failure. if my choices are smart enough, then I'll be able to roll with the punches that RNG throws at me, which is an uncertainty factor that makes a player have to adapt, providing the game is sufficiently challenging.
This. Diablo - and ultimately LE - are just an evolution of Nethack, one of the best games ever made when it comes to C&C and of course Rogue. Obviously the head-in-trashcan highschool DND nerds never heard of these games and can't, nay, don't want to understand what kind of games the people played that used to put their head into trashcans.

It's basically the virgin D&D nerd vs. the chad Nethack elite.
ah yes I must have forgotten that time I killed an enemy in nethack and it dropped 500 items
you realize the loot tables in diablo were inspired by your favorite game, EverQuest right?
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Decline wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 21:24
rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 20:21
Decline wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 20:15


This. Diablo - and ultimately LE - are just an evolution of Nethack, one of the best games ever made when it comes to C&C and of course Rogue. Obviously the head-in-trashcan highschool DND nerds never heard of these games and can't, nay, don't want to understand what kind of games the people played that used to put their head into trashcans.

It's basically the virgin D&D nerd vs. the chad Nethack elite.
ah yes I must have forgotten that time I killed an enemy in nethack and it dropped 500 items
you realize the loot tables in diablo were inspired by your favorite game, EverQuest right?
Image
Image
:scratch:
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Post by Decline »

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 21:27
Decline wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 21:24
rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 20:21


ah yes I must have forgotten that time I killed an enemy in nethack and it dropped 500 items
you realize the loot tables in diablo were inspired by your favorite game, EverQuest right?
Image
Image
:scratch:
Brevik played EQ and ordered that he wanted the loot system in Diablo aswell.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Decline wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 21:31
rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 21:27
Decline wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 21:24


you realize the loot tables in diablo were inspired by your favorite game, EverQuest right?
Image
Image
:scratch:
Brevik played EQ and ordered that he wanted the loot system in Diablo aswell.
He played it two years before it released?
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Post by Decline »

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 21:32
He played it two years before it released?
It's possible. Or he was referring to Diablo II.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Decline wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 21:36
rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ March 16th, 2024, 21:32
He played it two years before it released?
It's possible. Or he was referring to Diablo II.
Neither game has Everquest-like itemization so I'm not sure if he's ever played the game. There is no randomized monster loot, affix/suffix generation, etc., Specific items drop from thematically fitting enemies.
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Post by Decline »

rusty_shackleford wrote: March 16th, 2024, 21:37
Decline wrote: March 16th, 2024, 21:36
rusty_shackleford wrote: March 16th, 2024, 21:32
He played it two years before it released?
It's possible. Or he was referring to Diablo II.
Neither game has Everquest-like itemization so I'm not sure if he's ever played the game.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Decline wrote: March 16th, 2024, 21:42
rusty_shackleford wrote: March 16th, 2024, 21:37
Decline wrote: March 16th, 2024, 21:36

It's possible. Or he was referring to Diablo II.
Neither game has Everquest-like itemization so I'm not sure if he's ever played the game.

No idea why he'd say that then as the itemization in Diablo is nothing like Everquest.
I'll even ping @Gregz as he regularly plays both.

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Post by Tweed »

Rusty's idea of a good time is sitting in the same spot for week waiting for a monster that only spawns once every eight hours so he can get shield he doesn't even need.