Junior Adventurer's Guild - May: Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura

[Tadeusz]

Is there a way to ask the guards for directions or similar?

I don't remember such options. Navigating in Arcanum cities is a nightmare and map marking of buildings works every other time

[Acrux]

Is there a way to ask the guards for directions or similar? I am surprised to not be seeing the option for this in Tarant and was wondering if I am missing something. It is quite manageable, of course, but there are many dialogues where the characters speak almost matter of factly of the street to take without giving directions and it makes me wonder.

Tarant has signposts around the town. If you hover over them, then they will appear on your map when it's open. There's also the subway lines that act as a fast travel around the city. But, no, there aren't any specific dialogues that will say "go two streets north to X and then turn east until you get to Y".

[DagothGeas5]

Is there a way to ask the guards for directions or similar?

I don't remember such options. Navigating in Arcanum cities is a nightmare and map marking of buildings works every other time

Indeed, I like exploring, but traveling through Tarant is a bit tedious due to how I cannot pan the camera to see where I am going as I learn the streets without traveling further out, which makes me waste a lot of time if I am going the wrong way

Is there a way to ask the guards for directions or similar? I am surprised to not be seeing the option for this in Tarant and was wondering if I am missing something. It is quite manageable, of course, but there are many dialogues where the characters speak almost matter of factly of the street to take without giving directions and it makes me wonder.

Tarant has signposts around the town. If you hover over them, then they will appear on your map when it's open. There's also the subway lines that act as a fast travel around the city. But, no, there aren't any specific dialogues that will say "go two streets north to X and then turn east until you get to Y".

I did see the signposts as well and, though I do not use the transportation yet, it is this level of detail that makes not adding this as well strange to me. Speaking of transportation, I wanted to use the train to travel, but something happened with the ticket woman in Black Root where she now just "sings" drunkenly about Black Root and I cannot interact with her beyond that XD I had spoken with the conductor first and was directed to buy a ticket but had no money at the time so I exited dialogue and this is what happens since then when I interact with the woman XD Have been exploring the map through clicking it and planning "exploration routes" since, as it truly was taking a very long time (and I had a sort of "foreboding" feeling due to the sheer size of it, not sure how to explain. Like being lost in an endless abyss and realizing it).

Thank you both for the information!

Edit: For anyone else that might have a similar issue with exploration being quite slow, my character is a half-ogre and I assumed he was naturally as slow as he was, and I did notice he had an injury to his leg listed, but I had left it be for so long I just thought it wouldn't much affect speed. Healing it was game changing, also stopping the disposition from continually drop lower and lower due the injuries in some way. So truly, do treat your character's injuries if you see any! (You can ask a healer to heal you to do this, they will treat you once per injury, Shrouded Hills has one such example which is also part of a quest and will have a higher disposition with you if you helped him.)

[J1M]

Was never really happy with the pin for this one. It wasn't an AG Classic game, but it had a pixel art look and it didn't really sell the steampunk aspect so I made an alternative that focuses on the steampunk part (which is what differentiates the game from other fantasy RPGs, and I was not successful also slapping a blue magic symbol or lightning bolt on top of it at this resolution):



Looking for thoughts, especially if you've earned this one.

[Acrux]

If you want to include a cog, I think you should use the tech/magic combined one that's in the icon. This is just some crappy artwork someone did, but it's the best I can find at a viewable size. The icon is really tiny.

[J1M]

If you want to include a cog, I think you should use the tech/magic combined one that's in the icon. This is just some crappy artwork someone did, but it's the best I can find at a viewable size. The icon is really tiny.

I know what you are referring to. I just haven't been able to make it legible with only 22px to work with. If someone else can that would be great.

[rusty_shackleford]

I think the current Arcanum badge looks good, but it's up to you guys

[Tadeusz]

Looking for thoughts, especially if you've earned this one.

I think the badge works as it is because it uses a recognizable symbol from the game. I searched a bit for Arcanum symbols and found this art:

Maybe you're looking for something like this?

[J1M]

I think I understand why Arcanum is a cult hit but commercial failure. For one thing, it was marketed as something it isn't. This is not a fantasy adventure. It is an Urban Detective RPG that takes place on a continent that has dwarves.

The amount of effort that went into the world building and populating the cities in this game is bewildering. I use that less than flattering term intentionally. The manual is 187 pages, written in the tone of an in-universe manuscript. The cities are so large and so populated that it gets in the way. I call it a Detective RPG because the primary activity is figuring out where to find certain people and locations, and the most interesting rewards the game offers are the unravelling of secrets.

There are also some awkwardly long dungeon crawls thrown up as roadblocks, but overall I think this game would have been more engaging if it took place within a single county, possibly with not much combat, and lower stakes. The core mechanic of sussing out clues with logical inferences, and the massive amounts of writing that was required to support multiple paths was done well.

If that sounds up your alley but you don't find Arcanum's combat rewarding, here's a game-breaking combat build that will let you focus on the detective work: 20 STR, 20 DEX, +5 Dodge, +5 Melee, and get a Pyrotechnic Axe eventually (will cost a few points in crafting). As you can see from the screenshot, I didn't feel the need to allocate any points after level 21. Enable turn-based mode for maximum effectiveness.
PS: Keep some backup weapons for fighting rock golems.





@Oyster Sauce badge please.

[J1M]

Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Urban Detective Work pin:


EDIT: Was mostly a joke but turned out okay.

[Acrux]

you don't find Arcanum's combat rewarding

People with that opinion should not be playing RPGs. And yes, I am aware that is a widely held belief.

[J1M]

you don't find Arcanum's combat rewarding

People with that opinion should not be playing RPGs. And yes, I am aware that is a widely held belief.

You need higher standards. RPGs aren't expected to be action games, but they don't get a free pass for poorly designed combat.

[Acrux]

you don't find Arcanum's combat rewarding

People with that opinion should not be playing RPGs. And yes, I am aware that is a widely held belief.

You need higher standards. RPGs aren't expected to be action games, but they don't get a free pass for poorly designed combat.

It's not poorly designed, though. It's certainly not perfect, and things stand out like the over-reliance on DEX, but Arcanum gets a really bad rap compared to other games with similar combat (e.g. Fallout) that until recently no one complained about.

[J1M]

People with that opinion should not be playing RPGs. And yes, I am aware that is a widely held belief.

You need higher standards. RPGs aren't expected to be action games, but they don't get a free pass for poorly designed combat.

It's not poorly designed, though. It's certainly not perfect, and things stand out like the over-reliance on DEX, but Arcanum gets a really bad rap compared to other games with similar combat (e.g. Fallout) that until recently no one complained about.

Fallout is the same because both use action points and the AP stat is too powerful?

Fallout has ranged combat, called shots, and perks that greatly influence how turns play out. Terrain matters.

In Arcanum, I have so many APs I can melee everything to death in one turn before they act. The only variation to this is one type of enemy damages your weapon when struck, so you use an old weapon with the same approach. If this level of effectiveness and degeneracy was only applicable to some obscure combination of spells and items I wouldn't be so harsh on it. But this is the Joe Average Fighter build we are talking about. I used the same strategy on the last boss, though I guess that was a peak design fight because it took 4 turns!

[Acrux]

Fallout has ranged combat, called shots, and perks that greatly influence how turns play out. Terrain matters.

Again, I'm not saying Arcanum combat is excellent. I'm saying it's not as bad as it's made out to be.

As I said, the over-reliance on DEX is a problem. And one that's easily solved by capping the APs granted by DEX (which I think some modders are working on now, even outside of Drog's apparently abandoned "hard mode".)

Arcanum also has ranged combat, called shots, and abilities that greatly influence how play turns out. I don't recall terain mattering that much in Fallout. But yes, the "endless plains" map style is a weakness of Fallout. And much maligned firearms are actually quite good if you've built a character who can take advantage of them rightly). I'd also say the fatigue system is a good secondary system for combat. It's not utilized as well as it could be since enemy mages are not as much of a threat as they should be.

Also, the lighting system is an improvement from previous games.

The real issue with Arcanum combat is that enemy AI set to "rush into melee". I've seen modders who adjusted that and gave enemies better spellcasting abilities and it does wonders for the combat.

[Thor Kaufman]

Arcanum gets the deserved bad rap for its combat for the reasons J1M mentioned. Lack of finesse, really ****** enemies/unfair combat, especially early on, tediousness/trash mobs galore and only a few ways of fighting actually work unless you really know what you are doing. Granted it's not as bad as the memes, but it is really not good. And stuff like called shots don't really work, either iirc because the to hit is abysmal. Nevermind that it's really very hidden to begin with.

Fallout 1 actually has pretty decent combat for the genre, not just in contrast to Arcanum. Not just mechanics wise but also because it's not just trashmob after trashmob or really unfair enemies relative to your level (unless you are really adventurous).

[DagothGeas5]

I myself am quite surprised to read that the combat is considered unfair or similar. I am quite liking it myself, and how you can switch it to be turn-based, and though some encounters (wolves for example) are something that mauled my character to death, I see them as an added challenge to overcome and as training to overcome, so to speak. At the time of writing, though I am not currently playing due to not feeling I could give these games the attention they deserve at the moment, I am in the sewers below Taranis (I think it is called) and I have found quite a few powerful enemies that, though, I could all defeat in melee, with just some bits and pieces of armor, and using some dagger I found as my weapon broke. My character has been going on trips like this for quite a while and have managed to kill some very powerful, relatively speaking due to how heavy hitters or poisonous they were, enemies by simply cutting the reinforcements, strategy, and even terrain in a few cases (there was a sort of acre/mustard zombie thing that I lured to a wall with an window-like opening that I used to, then, climb out the other side and hit him from there). I am also trying both tech and magic for this one, surprised my half-ogre can even cast spells actually XD , until I get a real idea of what would I like my character to do, and one thing that I can say is that the spells are truly quite powerful compared to my dagger. I also quite love the falling unconcious/tiredness mechanic, and that it affects enemies too as that can be used to tire them out. I myself have found it all to be quite fun thus far (and have met some demonic entities by a portal as well, but that are too powerful for me quite just yet. just to give an idea that I have not just been meeting "nagas", bandits and rats).

[DagothGeas5]

I wanted to ask, is Arcanum known to be bugged and similar with some mechanics? I have been using axes to break down wooden locked doors, telling my companions (now back to companion) to stay back (Back Off mechanic that is F4) but when the door crumbles and there is combat right after, even spamming the #Attack command, doesn't do anything, and they just stand around. I have found some peculiarities as I was playing but this one is deeply frustrating, am I missing something in some way?

[Tangerine]

is Arcanum known to be bugged

Yes. The game needed a lot more time in the oven. Do you have any of the community patches installed?

[DagothGeas5]

is Arcanum known to be bugged

Yes. The game needed a lot more time in the oven. Do you have any of the community patches installed?

I do not as I like to experience the games as they are for my first run, but truly, things like this, or how you cannot ask direction of the guards, and other such details, make me quite sad I have to say, especially with how much effort and detail is put into other places

[Tadeusz]

I had some problems with group commands too even with the patch. It may be just an underdeveloped mechanic.

[DagothGeas5]

Will keep it in mind and rely on other things then before something breaks or similar, thank you both!

[Tweed]

I WIN!

arcanumwin.png

arcanum1.jpg

arcanum2.jpg

@Oyster Sauce GIB BADGE!

[DagothGeas5]

Tweed's post made me realize I must have won Arcanum before as I remember doing that too
No badge for me though! I wish to replay games for the Adventurer's Guild, Oyster's comment that it is also a new way to see and play the game, trying a new way to get through it etc, inspired me to truly stick to doing such a thing Might take me quite a while these days, but it is my wish

[maidenhaver mk3]

How many in-game years did it take everybody to get to Forbidden Island? The island with the monkeys and elf.

[maidenhaver mk3]

I myself am quite surprised to read that the combat is considered unfair or similar. I am quite liking it myself, and how you can switch it to be turn-based, and though some encounters (wolves for example) are something that mauled my character to death, I see them as an added challenge to overcome and as training to overcome, so to speak. At the time of writing, though I am not currently playing due to not feeling I could give these games the attention they deserve at the moment, I am in the sewers below Taranis (I think it is called) and I have found quite a few powerful enemies that, though, I could all defeat in melee, with just some bits and pieces of armor, and using some dagger I found as my weapon broke. My character has been going on trips like this for quite a while and have managed to kill some very powerful, relatively speaking due to how heavy hitters or poisonous they were, enemies by simply cutting the reinforcements, strategy, and even terrain in a few cases (there was a sort of acre/mustard zombie thing that I lured to a wall with an window-like opening that I used to, then, climb out the other side and hit him from there). I am also trying both tech and magic for this one, surprised my half-ogre can even cast spells actually XD , until I get a real idea of what would I like my character to do, and one thing that I can say is that the spells are truly quite powerful compared to my dagger. I also quite love the falling unconcious/tiredness mechanic, and that it affects enemies too as that can be used to tire them out. I myself have found it all to be quite fun thus far (and have met some demonic entities by a portal as well, but that are too powerful for me quite just yet. just to give an idea that I have not just been meeting "nagas", bandits and rats).

Enemy variety for the levels you'll gain and number of places to go is really low. The npcs are interesting, not the critters or their combat behaviors.

► Show Spoiler

You can cheese the portal for levels, because they never stop spawning. You have to read the inventor's note and do what it says.

The only thing that sets Arcanum apart from Morrowind are the npcs, and I do compare the games, because they're equally half-baked arpgs with bad level systems. They get some design perfect, and fail terribly at everything else. Its worth playing, if you want to make a good rpg.