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@orinEsque Speaking of tieflings, mods that remove the "baby wings" from the back, spikes and grooves on the body already exist. So maybe it can be implemented in future as a "less devil-like tieflings".

Silver wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 19:24

No no, I know they weren't close copy of actual devils. I was only talking about shades of skin, that it was in the normal human range + red tints.

They just looked like humans.

Tieflings are the offspring of the planes, as varied as the places they call home. Superficially human, their appearance always betrays them: some sport small horns, other have pointed ears, scales, a cloven hoof, or just a wicked gleam in their eye that never leaves.

Tieflings have trace ancestry, it wasn't until the 4E event that caused them to all look like troo fiends that they began looking like non-humans.

2E tieflings didn't even strictly have fiend heritage, they were just planetouched. Planetouched became its own thing in 3E, and tiefling then referred to the fiendish variant of planetouched, the opposite of an aasimar.

orinEsque wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 19:19

I haven't actually found a height parameter in game. All the models are hard coded from the get go from blender.

Oh nvm looks like it does exist

Sadly the mod is not what I meant. That just re-scales the whole character. I meant just adjusting the height, like the bug does on the fly.

This page have comparison pictures. The change from mutated human to near-devil/demon apparently occured in 4th edition just like Rusty points out

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Tiefling

Auld_SnawBeard wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 19:33

The change from mutated human to near-devil/demon apparently occured in 4th edition just like Rusty points out

There was some event that caused all the tieflings to become a certain kind of tiefling and then something… something… become all big red guys.
AFAIK the real issue in BG3 is there's way too many non-red tieflings, as there wouldn't have been enough time to make that many since the event. But I'm not a big expert on nu-D&D, so maybe I'm wrong.

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 19:31

They just looked like humans.

What about this image then? Supposedly it's 2e illustration. Artistic liberties or the guy was just eXXXtra planetouched?


I'm genuinely curious because of the amount of conflicting art on the matter of tieflings, even before 5e.

Auld_SnawBeard wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 19:33

This page have comparison pictures. The change from mutated human to near-devil/demon apparently occured in 4th edition just like Rusty points out

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Tiefling

Even that page mentions:

Skin color(s)
Same as humans, plus shades of red[2]

And how bloodlines for tieflings were "reworked" in 5e to emphasize "different looks come from devils of different planes".

Silver wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 19:14

but I believe that tieflings had only human shades for skin: brownish, pallid and different red hues PRIOR to the release of 5e.

There's a table for tiefling traits from AD&D2.

Silver wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 19:35

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 19:31

They just looked like humans.

What about this image then? Supposedly it's 2e illustration. Artistic liberties or the guy was just eXXXtra planetouched?


I'm genuinely curious because of the amount of conflicting art on the matter of tieflings, even before 5e.

Combination of very unlucky + it's the Planescape setting.

There does appear to be skin color on the random table you rolled. [edit]
oop, @Tadeusz got it first

Tadeusz wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 19:39

Silver wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 19:14

but I believe that tieflings had only human shades for skin: brownish, pallid and different red hues PRIOR to the release of 5e.

There's a table for tiefling traits from AD&D2.

Isn't AD&D2 a revision and pretty much a different set of rules? @rusty_shackleford @Tadeusz

Silver wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 19:35

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 19:31

They just looked like humans.

What about this image then? Supposedly it's 2e illustration. Artistic liberties or the guy was just eXXXtra planetouched?


I'm genuinely curious because of the amount of conflicting art on the matter of tieflings, even before 5e.

The original looks much better, by the way

I think it's possible to roll 95 then 85, 86 and 87 so I guess tieflings may have full RGB color palette

Silver wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 19:44

Tadeusz wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 19:39

Silver wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 19:14

but I believe that tieflings had only human shades for skin: brownish, pallid and different red hues PRIOR to the release of 5e.

There's a table for tiefling traits from AD&D2.

Isn't AD&D2 a revision and pretty much a different set of rules? @rusty_shackleford @Tadeusz

It's not that much different from AD&D + accessories. It mostly existed to stop having to pay Gygax his royalties.

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 19:44

Silver wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 19:35

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 19:31

They just looked like humans.

What about this image then? Supposedly it's 2e illustration. Artistic liberties or the guy was just eXXXtra planetouched?


I'm genuinely curious because of the amount of conflicting art on the matter of tieflings, even before 5e.

The original looks much better, by the way

That's a very cool illustration. Everyone is so jolly and happy.

Tadeusz wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 19:45

I think it's possible to roll 95 then 85, 86 and 87 so I guess tieflings may have full RGB color palette

Mood changing tieflings. To be honest, cool trait for a character. Just go rogue / thief / criminal and change your looks accordingly. They'll never catch you!

Silver wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 19:35

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 19:31

They just looked like humans.

What about this image then? Supposedly it's 2e illustration. Artistic liberties or the guy was just eXXXtra planetouched?


I'm genuinely curious because of the amount of conflicting art on the matter of tieflings, even before 5e.

Like Tad says they could have many different traits, but they were most often rather limited.
(never mind that, I was wrong).

The mechanics for PCs was to roll 1d4 random traits from the table Tad showed us.

Here's something to set the debate on fire: tieflings REALLY belong in 1 setting only: Planescape.

Doria_rhea wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 12:12

LemonDemonGirl wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 11:17

Please tell me all of the OOC swearing will be removed. This is Faerûn, not a slum

Don´t be afriad of killing Karlach...

Nah, I need her to become a soulless monster so I can save everyone else. The only thing that ending lacks is an option to kill her after she turns into a soulless husk. You can *************, you can kill Orpheus but nooooo the ***** redditor self-insert is too precious for that.

We still have light and de-saturated versions of blue / purple / somewhat pink for tieflings in game. I didn't butcher them ALL, they are just way more rare, as it... should be? EDIT: added examples for blue and very pale, borderline grey-blue skin on NPCs

Silver wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 19:52

We still have light and de-saturated versions of blue / purple / somewhat pink for tieflings in game. I didn't butcher them ALL, they are just way more rare, as it... should be?

► Show Spoiler

Those two looks perfect to me. Captures the variety without any one having too much of it.

Silver wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 19:44

Isn't AD&D2 a revision and pretty much a different set of rules?

Yes but I think it's mostly just technicality.
Found this quote from 3e:

This being looks like a human, but it has a faintly disturbing demeanor about it and a wicked gleam in its eyes. Short horns sprout from its forehead. ...
Aside from a demeanor that many find disturbing, many tieflings are indistinguishable from humans. Others have small horns, pointed teeth, red eyes, a whiff of brimstone about them, or even cloven feet. No two tieflings are the same.

So it's somewhat close to AD&D2 description.

Chris wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 19:32

orinEsque wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 19:19

I haven't actually found a height parameter in game. All the models are hard coded from the get go from blender.

Oh nvm looks like it does exist

Sadly the mod is not what I meant. That just re-scales the whole character. I meant just adjusting the height, like the bug does on the fly.

I can't remember if i hit reply on this, but the problem right now is, if I knew how to adjust height like these accordion bodies, I would have fixed the accordion bodies already.

Tadeusz wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 19:39

Silver wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 19:14

but I believe that tieflings had only human shades for skin: brownish, pallid and different red hues PRIOR to the release of 5e.

There's a table for tiefling traits from AD&D2.
Tiefling_table.gif

#16.- "Extremely long nose"

Huh, so ***** do have fiendish ancestry.

Tieflings did absolutely not exists prior to 2nd ed. Planescape and weren't a race the way they are now. They were said to be the descendants of people either with fiendish blood or who had made dealings with fiends. They also did not have a uniform look. The coolest thing about them was that every Tiefling was unique and looked completely different from one another. This has been completely retconned by now but if you want to make a Unique Tieflings mod then be my guests, it'll only take you around 56 years or so.

fkirenicus wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 19:47

Here's something to set the debate on fire: tieflings REALLY belong in 1 setting only: Planescape.

No. Though in any other setting they should be completely shunned from society if not killed on sight.

anyone who pays attention knows the real reason they normalized a race that looks like demons but are actually just misunderstood dindu nuffins

rusty_shackleford wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 20:17

anyone who pays attention knows the real reason they normalized a race that looks like demons but are actually just misunderstood dindu nuffins

if you made the unfortunate decision to watch devil may cry mary the boss girl whines (2025) anime cartoon, you'll see the exact same ********. It's the current hollywood fad.

Silver wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 19:52

We still have light and de-saturated versions of blue / purple / somewhat pink for tieflings in game. I didn't butcher them ALL, they are just way more rare, as it... should be?

► Show Spoiler

EDIT: added examples for blue and very pale, borderline grey-blue skin on NPCs

I can blend a hooked nose as an accessory. How about we slap some on less savoury tieflings and perhaps counting house people

orinEsque wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 20:27

Silver wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 19:52

We still have light and de-saturated versions of blue / purple / somewhat pink for tieflings in game. I didn't butcher them ALL, they are just way more rare, as it... should be?

► Show Spoiler

EDIT: added examples for blue and very pale, borderline grey-blue skin on NPCs

I can blend a hooked nose as an accessory. How about we slap some on less savoury tieflings and perhaps counting house people

Maybe the datamined head of Karlach could be a good foundation to start from. Looks like they tried to do something like that there but kind of chickened out.

~~~effortpost time~~~

re: original Planescape tieflings: even within 2e there was an evolution. In the very first 1994 Planescape book, which included A Player's Guide to the Planes, tiefling was a synonym of planetouched and just meant a human who had been touched by some Outer Plane. It was described to be an unpleasant and subtle thing - the physical trait examples were "a shadow of a knife-edge to their face, a little too much fire in their eyes, a scent of ash", and they couldn't be LG - but the book didn't directly mention the Lower Planes or devils/demons at all.

The screenshot above is from the Planewalker's Handbook, which came out two years later, and introduced the now-familiar classification where planetouched encompasses aasimar, genasi, and tieflings. Tieflings are described as descendants of "everything else", but points out that "everything else" almost always means the Lower Planes, hence their bad reputation.

On Faerûn, Tieflings arrived with the 3e FR Campaign setting, where they stayed pretty much the same, with a couple of physical traits selected from a varied list. They are also described as being largely confined to Mulhorand, Thay and Unther - places that had a lot of godly manifestations and/or fiends traipsing around for a long time.

Interestingly, the splatbook Races of Faerûn went further and introduced elf-tieflings, the fey'ri (demon-blooded sorcerers from a corrupted sun elf House) and orc-tieflings, the tanarukk. Frankly they have a pretty stark Warcraft 3 vibe, AFAIK nobody liked them much and they got very quickly shoved under the carpet; old WotC was perfectly capable of making terrible creative decisions before the modern nonsense.

The 4e FR Player's Guide is the one that 'standardized' the tieflings as you probably know them, with reddish skin, tail and horns being described as standard for the entire race. It is also the one that described them as having spread a bit all over Faerun, especially in the big cities, although they still have a 'heartland' in the high-magic countries of the East where they're even described as 'common'.

The 5e Player's Handbook didn't change much - tieflings are still described as having reddish skin. The more varied appearance actually seems to come from the 2015 Sword Coast Adventurer Guide, which establishes that (a) due to some bullshittery, Asmodeus claimed ascendance over all the existing "standard" tieflings, and (b) after that, other non-Asmodeus-lineage tieflings appeared, which could have had somewhat different traits. They are described in this sidebar:

orinEsque wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 10:40

Pixelargh wrote: ↑ May 6th, 2025, 09:06

Any ETA on the De-girlboss mod? After a few hours in Act 3, the cringe of every single captain, lieutenant, important bridge guard, mafia/pirate bosses etc being women got exhausting, to the point that when one NPC mentioned an important NPC I needed to talk with I could clearly guess if they were going to be a woman.It got so bad, I took a break from the game and I still haven't got back to finish it.

If we exclude the main cast of secondary characters (Thorm, Gortash, Raphael...) and focus just on regular NPCs, this game is clearly misandrist, putting all females in positions of power and leaving men just as brainless, lineless grunts. This decision is especially idiotic and cringeworthy since, in real life, men would usually rank into positions of power where high risk is involved more than women because they are more incentivised by the benefits these positions can bring (more mates, resources) while females tend to avoid dangerous jobs and positions.

My first cringe were the 3 female Zentharim in the Goblin camp like these 3 ******* wouldn't be raped, killed and eaten the minute the stepped foot into the camp. One thing is if they were powerful mages but they were just rogues. I hope the mod changes them into men, honestly. I have a long list of recommendations if you are interested. And thank you, it must not be easy to revoice all these characters but the game will definitely be much, much better after you release this mod.

A year or two maybe. Don't count on that one being quick. Work is ongoing but it's not a matter of just changing some values in code like this one.

Got it. I understand. It's a titanic effort. Maybe you can start with the worse offenders and release the mod in tiers?