Vampire: The Masquerade® - Bloodlines™ 2

[Atlantico]

what about the ****** "Child" part?

Extremely stupid and annoying as well, just less "in-your-face" like Tully that dip.

I hate bad writing, it triggers me. Storytelling is craft and great storytelling is art. There are always people who look at a work of art and think "I can do that". The absolute inability to understand one's own limitations is perhaps the main descriptor of these jerkoffs.

[CheesusCrust]

what about the ****** "Child" part?

Extremely stupid and annoying as well, just less "in-your-face" like Tully that dip.

how so? they kick the ugly ****** towards you and use miserable "b-but she's like dying an' stuff" excuse. again, i ain't expert in VtM lore and rules, but can't you just blood bond her, use her and dispose of her later?

I hate bad writing, it triggers me. Storytelling is craft and great storytelling is art. There are always people who look at a work of art and think "I can do that". The absolute inability to understand one's own limitations is perhaps the main descriptor of these jerkoffs.

wasn't it the opposite situation? in a way "i can't do this", but they did it anyway?
the "writing" was so badly cut and mashed together i couldn't tell which was suppose to be Mitsoda's ideas and which wasn't. i guess they scooped out everything that remotely smelled like Mitsoda's writing, considering how hollow the entire game ******* is.

[Roguey]

Therefore Tolly isn't the only person who doubts you.

Getting lost in the sauce of semantics. The original argument was "[*]Feels like the writers wanted to treat Sabbat as if they were the visions Shepard has in Mass Effect that the Council don't believe and are dismissive of. Which makes no sense, especially considering their court openly includes former Sabbat members. In addition to like half of the court being secretly Sabbat, including multiple characters exposed in the first half of the game..."

I'm saying it does make sense given the character dynamics. The chief doubter is the guy whose job it is to know everything that's going on in the city. It would be ridiculous if he immediately deferred to you, that would make him look bad, and he is a bad and dishonest person.

[Roguey]

i ain't expert in VtM lore and rules, but can't you just blood bond her, use her and dispose of her later?

That is not the deal she wants to make.

It's disappointing how limited your choices are in that scenario, they just didn't have the time to cover more than two options.

i couldn't tell which was suppose to be Mitsoda's ideas and which wasn't.

None of them were his ideas other than a historical brothel madam turned into a vampire Prince. You wouldn't have liked his story either, his mistress promised that it was going to be extra ***** and woke.

[CheesusCrust]

None of them were his ideas other than a historical brothel madam turned into a vampire Prince. You wouldn't have liked his story either, his mistress promised that it was going to be extra ***** and woke.

what of Mr.Damp and the Tremere chick, Elif? what were they suppose to be in the original plot? also any info on the "extra ***** and woke" part?

[J1M]

I'm saying it does make sense given the character dynamics. The chief doubter is the guy whose job it is to know everything that's going on in the city. It would be ridiculous if he immediately deferred to you, that would make him look bad, and he is a bad and dishonest person.

You should be more careful quoting spoilers to ensure they are still obscured.

What is ridiculous is that:
a) The spymaster is not curious/vigilant about possible Sabbat incursion
b) The spymaster isn't aware of it despite being given direct evidence
c) You think this made sense and was good writing

[Atlantico]

how so? they kick the ugly ****** towards you and use miserable "b-but she's like dying an' stuff" excuse. again, i ain't expert in VtM lore and rules, but can't you just blood bond her, use her and dispose of her later?

Only in the sense that he has slightly less screen-time. That thing has an actual nose-ring .. disgusting

[rusty_shackleford]

@Oyster Sauce you have to spoil the rest of the spoilers too
Make sure you get the quotes, don't spoiler entire posts, just the spoilers

[Oyster Sauce]

Include what needs spoiling in your reports because I haven't played this kusoge and know very little about it

[Roguey]

None of them were his ideas other than a historical brothel madam turned into a vampire Prince. You wouldn't have liked his story either, his mistress promised that it was going to be extra ***** and woke.

what of Mr.Damp and the Tremere chick, Elif? what were they suppose to be in the original plot? also any info on the "extra ***** and woke" part?

Mr. Damp/Vandal Cleaver doesn't appear at all. Elif was transformed into Safia. I don't know what their original deal was other than that Damp was aligned with the Baron of Aurora and Elif was aligned with The Newcomers.

Archived forum posts https://web.archive.org/web/20200329083 ... 078/page-2

Primarily, we are trying to deconstruct how gender and sexuality works a little bit more in this game so that it is much more complex, however 'attraction' still works on a he/she structure currently because of the way the system has been built. So if you choose a she pronoun, for example, vampires who are usually attracted to someone who is a 'she' will have dialogue specifically written to convey that, regardless of what your body has been customized to look like. If you are a 'he', you might get completely different dialogue. Or, if the vampire you are talking to is attracted to he and she vampires, a high enough stat to flirt with them would open up positive results. So, we write dialogue for every eventuality of character, as all our NPCs make judgements on you based on the way you customize play and how you choose to speak to them. We try to write for the plurality of the modern world - if we know people who are NB, gay, straight, bi, asexual, or if we know interesting weirdos, nerds, introverts, etc we write in vampires who reflect this reality. I personally also feel this reflects the history of the people who have kept the IP alive over the years - there are a great deal of people for whom the tabletop and original game was important and they should feel like they live in a World Of Darkness that recognizes them. But honestly, this is not so vastly different from the way Brian wrote Bloodlines 1, except it has got a lot gayer because that reflects our increased awareness of LGBT players.

With regard to the Voermanns, we know they are fan favourites, but culturally we all have a better grasp of how mental health issues affect people now and we wouldn't use such a trope again.

https://web.archive.org/web/20200324231 ... 078/page-3

Rachel and I have discussed some ways to be kinder to players who might have PTSD issues in particular, and one of the things we are considering pitching to the team is a part of the accessibility menu where we outline the thematic content of each mission so that you can prepare yourself ahead of time for a particular mission, choose not to play a side mission that might involve some issues you feel uncomfortable about, or grab a friend or partner to play through certain content with you. What we may do is give players a run down in that menu of what to expect from Malkavian playthroughs so that you can make a more informed choice about whether you feel comfortable playing that way. That way, we are not changing the experience, but we are giving you space and time to consider when you'd like to continue.

https://www.pcgamer.com/you-can-play-bl ... pire-game/

"I have written a mission that has to do with body issues,” she recalls. “And I’m interested in them because I have issues with my own appearance. So I have a little bit of body horror sometimes, or a feeling that I don’t quite fit in my body… so I thought it would be interesting to approach that. I think I had the character say something like, ‘Oh, I’m not ugly anymore!’ And someone really considerate at the studio was implementing that [mission], and they got back to me and said, 'This line here? That’s really painful.'"

But sensitivity doesn’t have to mean avoiding these subjects altogether, Ellison says. After discussing the text further, there turned out to be a simple solution that everyone found acceptable.

"The solution was to put 'ugly' in quotation marks," she says. "And then, the meaning of it gets across better. She’s using it ironically. It’s about so-called ugliness. A societal idea of ugliness. Because today we’re aware that this is going to go out to an audience that, you know, they have a number of these issues and are maybe aware of them more, I think that’s an amazing challenge to writers to give that level of quality. So I love feedback like that, because it means I can try to serve people more effectively."

https://www.vg247.com/vampire-the-masqu ... er-creator

It is a political game but I think it's one of those few opportunities that gives us the chance to let people make their own political statement in a way that's not cheap. I don't believe you can look at both sides of a political argument without understanding both sides. It's easy to say this is good and this is bad. But it's definitely taking some political stances on what we think are right and wrong.
...
It's not just politics where Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2 takes a progressive approach. The character creator, which players get to use twice - once at the start to define your human aspects and then a second time later in the game to flesh out your vampire - goes way beyond basic male and female models. Body type, gender pronouns, employment history and fashion can all be toyed with for a very modular build.

He destroyed his marriage for this woman, they live together in Scotland now.

I'm saying it does make sense given the character dynamics. The chief doubter is the guy whose job it is to know everything that's going on in the city. It would be ridiculous if he immediately deferred to you, that would make him look bad, and he is a bad and dishonest person.

You should be more careful quoting spoilers to ensure they are still obscured.

What is ridiculous is that:
a) The spymaster is not curious/vigilant about possible Sabbat incursion
b) The spymaster isn't aware of it despite being given direct evidence
c) You think this made sense and was good writing

He's not going to spell out his motivations for you. Like I said, it's ambiguous how much he really knows. Right after he tells you the Sabbat stuff is nonsense, he sends you off to see a specific guy who's been compromised by the Sabbat. Coincidence or playing a subtle game? Unrevealed.

After that business is done, he sends you to go after the black book of the former Sabbat-alligned Sheriff. He says he could have easily done this himself at any point after he was taken care of, but he can't be bothered. Is this pure negligence and laziness on his part or something done for your benefit? You get a bit of information in that room that you otherwise wouldn't have.

[J1M]

And yet, the Hardsuit/Mitsoda version would still have been better...

[rusty_shackleford]

that's a big nose

[LemonDemonGirl]

Goblin nose

[Roguey]

And yet, the Hardsuit/Mitsoda version would still have been better...

Worse gameplay, worse writing. The only thing it had going for it was being a "faithful" sequel. Glad we got the version we did.

[rusty_shackleford]

VTMB is easily one of the most overrated RPGs so there was zero chance this was going to be good 2bh
hipster game that only gets bonus points for its setting

[Havitner]

that's a big nose

Jeepers!

Screenshot from 2025-12-03 02-28-59.png

[Tangerine]

that's a big nose

Jeepers!

**** Venetians!

[J1M]

And yet, the Hardsuit/Mitsoda version would still have been better...

Worse gameplay, worse writing. The only thing it had going for it was being a "faithful" sequel. Glad we got the version we did.

You genuinely think what was shipped (Hardsuit's version + 5 years of The Chinese Room modding it) is better than what Hardsuit would have produced if their funding ran to a launch date of October 2025?

The only interesting character in BL2 is the one they kept from Hardsuit (Lou), and the only memorable location (buried Old Seattle) was also certainly a Hardsuit idea.

[Demonic Fate]

I picked up my save and am now about 75% of the way through, so I'll hold out on discussing the plot until I've finished it, however:

Holy **** how did I miss that (1) the hot Toreador art hoe uses they/them pronouns and (2) all the 70+ year old vampires rEsPecT hEr iDenTiTy and address her as "them" without the slightest awkwardness, like they're woke millennials for whom this **** is part and parcel.

[Roguey]

You genuinely think what was shipped (Hardsuit's version + 5 years of The Chinese Room modding it) is better than what Hardsuit would have produced if their funding ran to a launch date of October 2025?

Yes, 100%. I doubt it was fixable, and on the remote chance that it was, I wouldn't have liked the combat or the story.

The only interesting character in BL2 is the one they kept from Hardsuit (Lou), and the only memorable location (buried Old Seattle) was also certainly a Hardsuit idea.

Well, every location was a Hardsuit idea, that much is true.

I picked up my save and am now about 75% of the way through, so I'll hold out on discussing the plot until I've finished it, however:

Holy **** how did I miss that (1) the hot Toreador art hoe uses they/them pronouns and (2) all the 70+ year old vampires rEsPecT hEr iDenTiTy and address her as "them" without the slightest awkwardness, like they're woke millennials for whom this **** is part and parcel.

As I recall, the only vampires who talk about Patience are Tolly the ***, Fabien the polite, and Niko the former fascist turned hardcore leftist activist who lets her stay in his place and is also ******* her. The Nomad just follows their lead to fit in, Patience never actually brings up the pronouns with you. The chud vampires (Lou, Fletcher, Mrs. Thorn) don't talk about her at all.

[maidenhaver mk3]

If I was making a vampire game, I'd send every human country a private survey to describe their ****, and collect these to create my vampire clans.

[CheesusCrust]

Mr. Damp/Vandal Cleaver doesn't appear at all. Elif was transformed into Safia.

i, in fact, did not know Mr. Damp was Vandal Cleaver the guy was my favorite in BD1, jesus

[Bertram_Tung]

VTMB is easily one of the most overrated RPGs
hipster game that only gets bonus points for its setting

.... and many more bad opinions from the author of such gems as:

"outer worlds 2 is not woke"

"outer worlds 2 is a good game"

[Demonic Fate]

Finished the game and I think my review sums up as: there are two different 6/10 games in here, and either or both of them could have been completed and polished up to a 7 or even 8/10, but mashed together they somehow become less than the sum of the parts.

There's a very well planned story structure in this game, but the story itself is missing several key chunks and so you get a very nice presentation of a nothingburger.

There's a decent combat loop once you unlock enough powers, but the only 'progression' is unlocking the passives that graciously allow you to actually have any fun.

I can very easily imagine a Bloodlines 2 that isn't too different from what we got, but where:

► Show Spoiler

- Fabien figures out something more interesting than 'Lou did it because she wanted to rule alone'
- You get the option to fight Lou and/or Katsumi
- You are about twice as strong both at the start and at the end of the game, but enemies progress farther than 'dude with a shotgun'
- ALL sidequests are like the ones you get on the last day, where you chase after minor named NPCs with a tiny bit of dialogue, instead of collecting bear asses

and that would be enough for me to bump it up by a point, becoming 'worth playing despite the shortcomings'. What we got isn't.

[Vergil]

I tried this again on my new computer and it still runs pathetic compared to how it looks but I still gave up on it entirely after 2 hours of reddit detective man, girl boss mania, mystery meats and literal AIDSferatu.

[Bertram_Tung]

anyone who feels even the slightest compulsion to try this game is a ******

[Vergil]

Toreador leader is a bald negress who still invited me to her club despite telling her to **** off 3 times btw

[logincrash]

Toreador leader is a bald negress who still invited me to her club despite telling her to **** off 3 times btw

And the other Toreador in the city is a zoomer they/them who fucks the Balkan muslim in the next room.

[Roguey]

Toreador leader is a bald negress who still invited me to her club despite telling her to **** off 3 times btw

Yeah, she wants to trap you.

[Vergil]

Toreador leader is a bald negress who still invited me to her club despite telling her to **** off 3 times btw

Yeah, she wants to trap you.

The world is so ****** up they think an ugly bald ****** is honey potting anyone...