Dark Messiah of Might & Magic - Physics FPRPG

[WhiteShark]

I've wanted to play this game ever since I saw those above videos but was held back by various things, most especially motion sickness. Now that I've solved that I'm finally giving this a try. Seems promising. There's a skill tree but not much to it. I'm playing on Hardcore, but we'll see how spongey that ends up making enemies. There's a mod to remove enemy HP scaling while retaining the other aspects of harder difficulties if it turns out to be too much. Speaking of mods, it seems there are only a few of note:

• Unlimited Mod: adds some features from the Limited Edition of the game and fixes some bugs. Optionally comes with a pack of 'mini mods' to fix/tweak some other things.
• Corpses Stay: makes corpses stick around instead of rapidly disappearing.
• Map Extended: appears to add a separate mini campaign and an arena to the game.

The PCGamingWiki article also has some good tips for tweaking the config. Thanks to that I was able to disable the 'lean when strafing' """feature""" and set sprint, crouch, walk, and zoom all to toggles. This is my autoexec.cfg file for reference:

Code: Select all

// Adjust FOV; enabling cheats is required
sv_cheats 1
fov 100

// Disable Strafe Tilt
sv_rollangle 0

// Borderless Windowed Mode
// mat_setvideomode 2560 1440 2
// doesn't work

// Key Bindings - Change these to whatever you wish
bind c ToggleWalk
bind x ToggleCrouch
bind d ToggleZoom
bind s ToggleSprint
bind home toggleconsole

// Walk Toggle Button
alias ToggleWalk "WalkOn"
alias WalkOn "+speed; alias ToggleWalk WalkOff"
alias WalkOff "-speed; alias ToggleWalk WalkOn"

// Crouch Toggle Button
alias ToggleCrouch "CrouchOn"
alias CrouchOn "+duck; alias ToggleCrouch CrouchOff"
alias CrouchOff "-duck; alias ToggleCrouch CrouchOn"

// Zoom Toggle Button
alias ToggleZoom "ZoomOn"
alias ZoomOn "+newzoom; alias ToggleZoom ZoomOff"
alias ZoomOff "-newzoom; alias ToggleZoom ZoomOn"

// Sprint Toggle Button
alias ToggleSprint "SprintOn"
alias SprintOn "+sprint; alias ToggleSprint SprintOff"
alias SprintOff "-sprint; alias ToggleSprint SprintOn"

Note that you need to add +exec autoexec.cfg to the command line options for it be applied automatically.

I'm still too early on to say much else. I'm enjoying the style so far and I think the graphics have aged very well. Having played HoMM 3 I can tell that they did actually try to make it feel like it's the same world. Looking forward to seeing what's in store.

[Maggot]

Good for what it is, but the knowledge that we could have gotten Arx 2 and the game was hobbled into this by Ubisoft mandate makes playing it hurt.

[agentorange]

I wouldn't recommend playing on hardcore. Every enemy becomes a tank and if I remember correctly you can't even kill enemies unless you use one of those charged execute attacks, meanwhile you will be dying extremely quickly to everything. The game is not particularly deep and the fun comes from experimentation and killing enemies in way that take advantage of the physics, which you will be punished for trying to do when playing on the highest difficulty. I would honestly say just play on normal, if you find it to be too much of a cake walk then play on hard.

[WhiteShark]

Ubisoft mandate

What's that?

meanwhile you will be dying extremely quickly to everything

Eh, if I'm not dying extremely quick, I tend to get bored. If the sponge is too much for me I'll add that "no HP scaling" mod.

[wndrbr]

Ubisoft mandate

What's that?

iirc Raph said so in the recent Noclip documentary. Basically, Arkane pitched Arx 2, and then Ubisoft said that no one's going to buy their shitty unknown game and that they should make something based on Ubisoft's M&M IP instead.

[WhiteShark]

Ok, it takes three power stabs + change on a downed enemy mook to actually kill him, so time to install that non-scaling HP mod.

Basically, Arkane pitched Arx 2, and then Ubisoft said that no one's going to buy their shitty unknown game and that they should make something based on Ubisoft's M&M IP instead.

Wow, I guess Ubisoft has always been big gay.

[GhostCow]

Fantastic game, but I couldn't get it to run on a modern computer last time I tried it and that was back when I was on Windows 10 and a 4770k/980 combo. Probably even less likely to run on my current system.

[WhiteShark]

Fantastic game, but I couldn't get it to run on a modern computer last time I tried it and that was back when I was on Windows 10 and a 4770k/980 combo. Probably even less likely to run on my current system.

Hm, I'm on Windows 10 and while it's a bit unstable (prone to crashing if I alt tab much and always crashes on exit), it seems to run fine otherwise.

[Maggot]

Fantastic game, but I couldn't get it to run on a modern computer last time I tried it and that was back when I was on Windows 10 and a 4770k/980 combo. Probably even less likely to run on my current system.

The game is surprisingly unstable on modern systems when I don't have any problems with other Source games, it would just randomly crash as I played through the game. I'd be curious to try it through Proton as some say it works flawlessly and others mention severe FPS drops.

[GhostCow]

Strange. The game would just crash on launch for me every time last time I tried it. I don't think I could even get to the main menu.

[KnightoftheWind]

This game is in dire need of a remaster, or a fan source port of some kind to fix all it's issues and update it for modern hardware. It's quite a unique action RPG that's seldom brought up these days, probably because it's been left to rot over the years.

I'm not surprised Arx 2 was never produced, the original game was very niche. But if the devs really wanted to make it, they could have after finishing Dark Messiah, but they simply chose not to. Now they're too busy making pozzed garbage.

[Ratcatcher]

I've wanted to play this game ever since I saw those above videos

Go into this as blind as you can. Stop watching videos, experiment and learn by yourself because that's 90% of the fun in this game. Agentorange gave you some good suggestions already, play it on normal at first and bump to hard if you find it a cakewalk. It's a title I remember fondly and I replayed it multiple times to experiment different playstyles but the cracks shows if you get to know it and once seen, they cannot be unseen.

Again, most of the fun here comes from thinking "can I do that?" and realizing that, yes, you can in fact do that kewl shit. If you get into the game already knowing most of the tactics and how to use maneuvers and spells, it's a sub-par action game.

[WhiteShark]

Go into this as blind as you can. Stop watching videos, experiment and learn by yourself because that's 90% of the fun in this game. Agentorange gave you some good suggestions already, play it on normal at first and bump to hard if you find it a cakewalk. It's a title I remember fondly and I replayed it multiple times to experiment different playstyles but the cracks shows if you get to know it and once seen, they cannot be unseen.

Again, most of the fun here comes from thinking "can I do that?" and realizing that, yes, you can in fact do that kewl shit. If you get into the game already knowing most of the tactics and how to use maneuvers and spells, it's a sub-par action game.

The videos in the OP are all that I've seen, and I picked those up years ago from a webm thread. I'm still mostly blind. I'm still on hardcore but the non-scaling HP mod is on now and it feels about right. One power stab on a downed enemy kills but they're still quite deadly to me so I have to stay on my toes.

I can't say I've gotten any really unique physics kills yet but throwing barrels is fun and effective. Still haven't committed to a particular branch in the skill tree yet, feeling torn between all three. I got used to being required to redo the whole level if I died in the last game I was playing so for now I'm only relying on autosaves to force myself to play seriously. Autosaves/area transitions seem spaced kindly enough for it to be a nice and feasible challenge. Feels better than spamming QS/QL all the time.

[WhiteShark]

I specced into stealth and got the backstab ability but I've yet to successfully pull it off. I regret not putting the points into lockpicking instead as I seem to have already missed at least one locked door with no corresponding key. Combat Staff is my MVP for crab fighting right now: one bop stuns and then it's basically over.

Game was way too dark so I turned up the brightness a bit, but even at the internally recommended level it's clear they want you to use darkvision a lot. That would be fine if it were a toggle since it costs no mana, but since it's on a 30 second timer, that means I'm forced to constantly recast it. I thought it might be easily moddable since there's a spells.txt in the scripts folder for the mod I'm using, but changing the duration value doesn't seem to do anything, sadly.

I thought that I had taken care of all the elements that cause me motion sickness, but the delay between turning your camera and your hands/weapons following as well as the arms pumping when sprinting both seem to be getting to me. It's not unplayable by any means, but I keep needing to take breaks. Hopefully my brain just gets used to it. The feeling is probably exaggerated by my sleep deprived, green-tea-fueled state.

[J1M]

It's a great game. Wish we had more like it and less Dark Souls clones.

[WhiteShark]

Is there money in this game or should I just drop the crap I'm not using? I've been hoarding in the hope I might sell some of it someday but now my inventory is full.

EDIT: Guess not.

[WhiteShark]

Got lockpicking and then a couple more spells, Freeze and Charm. The latter is minimum one kill, sometimes two or more, and requires no set up, so it's pretty nice. Freeze takes more set up but is also hilarious and has definitely saved my life at least once. Haven't put any more points into direct combat but environmental kills are so plentiful that at least for now I prefer gaining new capabilities in the form of spells.

Xana's hints are a little annoying. In all fairness it seems to they took pains to make them not too direct, but I don't think there's a way for a game to give me hints that won't grate at least a little. It made me laugh when she was blathering something about an object falling over while I was searching a room and then when I knocked it over I realized what she'd been saying.

It's too bad they gave Leanna short hair. I guess it's to distinguish her from Xana, but for how much they play her up as the cute love interest they could have made her cuter. Still way, way better than the female characters of today. Were this a 2023 game, she would be black and the protagonist.

Had to use a cheat to survive an autosave where some falling object would kill me about a second after loading in every single time without fail. Thank God for the console.

Game is unstable, as noted before. In fact, I'm posting right now because the game randomly crashed during a big fight so I decided to call it quits for the day and get ready for bed. It's been pretty rare though, so not a dealbreaker.

Hastily taken screenshot below. Wasn't sure I would get another chance to get a shot of this beast. Rare that I remember to do it in the heat of the moment. Really need to change the keybind to a single button for cases like this.

[WhiteShark]

Another crash, another post. I'm on Chapter 6 now. Not really spoilers but so as to avoid documenting the whole game for those who haven't played, I'll hide the details:

► Show Spoiler

Was challenged by this orc leader to an honorable duel:


He demanded no magic, but since I've put a grand total of two points into the melee tree, that wasn't going to fly. Even just readying a spell triggers the followers to join in, but that was still easier than crab battling for my build.

Freeze continues to be hilarious. Defeated the above noted enemy by throwing down a freeze at the top of a small stairway. Naturally he and his cohort all slipped at the top and went flying straight to the bottom. It wasn't that much of a drop, but for some reason on my winning attempt, either the fall or his buddies landing on top of him killed him without any further interference on my part. Was extremely surprised and amused to see "Objective Complete" pop-up because it took three down-stabs to finish him the first time I tried that tactic.

[Tweed]

This really was a great game, magic is kinda gimped until it's maxed, but still.

[WhiteShark]

This really was a great game, magic is kinda gimped until it's maxed, but still.

Stealth feels that way, too. I have Stealth 2 and was running around in armor that gave a further Steath +1 but I still got spotted a lot. Now I've changed gear and am investing hard into magic. Just got Magic Affinity 3, so my mana pool is huge, but I need to save points for more serious offense spells still. I prioritized Magic Affinity 3 over spells because I wanted to be able to equip a certain weapon, but then it turned out that for plot reasons I still can't use it yet anyway.

Just got demon form. The FOV change it induces really messes with my depth perception, but it seems strong. I only used it once in the area I got it, though, choosing instead to kill the first pair of orcs with thrown objects and kicks into a nearby fire. Somehow that ended up being easier.

[WhiteShark]

Killed the giant spider. Kept dying while looking for a gimmick to win the fight until I finally realized, hey, my mana pool is 120 and I can cast flame arrow. 50 flame arrows later, I win! I hadn't really used it before then so I was surprised to find out how spammable it is.

Soon after I finished the necromancer's fortress. Some of those rooms were pretty brutal for me: hard to sneak through and full of enemies who can oneshot me with their hardcore damage. Charm was my go to maneuever. I couldn't crab battle Vampire Knights at all, one false move and I was dead. Near the end I unlocked Inferno and while it seems very strong the mana cost is proportionately high.

Game is hinting strongly at a big story choice coming up. Haven't made up my mind which way to go with it. Part of me wants to pick the option that will allow me to wield the weapon I talked about before. I guess I'll see how I'm feeling when I get there.

[WhiteShark]

And done. Great game. Magic paid off in the end. Both Sanctuary and Inferno ended up being extremely good (on top of all the other good spells). I also took the mana regeneration passive but it probably wasn't necessary given the quantity of mana potions with which the game showers you. Spoilery summary of my experience of the end bit:

► Show Spoiler

I agonized a bit over whether to keep Xana. At first I did the cleansing thinking the weapons would be worth it, but after testing a little bit, they didn't seem much better than my normal approach to combat. Maybe it would have been different had I invested in melee. Plus, I felt kind of attached to Xana. She does save your life, and the demon form was kind of cool. I ended up reloading and skipping the cleansing.

Then there was the second Pao Kai fight. This was pretty rough on Hardcore because its lightning breath was strong enough to oneshot me from full heatlh. You have to be careful using the ballista because it locks you into a loading animation that's long enough to get zapped if you don't time the Pao Kai's movements carefully. After hitting it with three bolts it started changing up its movement pattern and I wasn't sure where the window of safety was anymore, so I ended up sitting in a corner and spamming flame arrows again. Success!

Next was the unhappy reunion with Leanna who was not pleased that I had kept Xana. I didn't really want to do it but she attacked me first so I was forced to toast her. That was my first serious use of Inferno and, the situation aside, I was pleased to see how effective it was.

After that the Necropolis. Lots of sneaking, charming, backstabbing, and telekinesis. I did the side mission that gets one of the Lich (pronounced 'leech' in this game) Kings on your side during that fight. I toasted the other three with Inferno. Didn't even get to see what they could do.

Final boss fight with Arantir was pretty one-sided. After spending a while exploring the arena (and accidentally falling to my death a couple times) I charmed his guards into killing each other then backstabbed him. He got back up and summoned a bone dragon and went into a routine where the dragon would fight me until I injured it, then he would become vulnerable for a while, then the dragon would activate again, repeat. I found that I could stand next to him and Inferno the dragon from the ground then turn and Inferno him during the window of opportunity. After three rounds of that he died.

As for the ending choice, I again agonized a bit while the Demon Lord and Xana both urged me to do different things. I'm not exactly sure how many choices there were. It seemed like it was possible to free the Demon Lord, use the skull for yourself, or to leave with the skull. Not sure if leaving without the skull was possible. I almost ended up freeing him because I wasn't sure how to use it for myself, but Xana complained sufficiently to divert me, so I figured out that I needed to put it back on the altar. Not sure how I feel about the ending being essentially a repeat of the opening prophetic dialogue, but whatever.

I forgot to screenshot anything in the final act, but here's one from back in the Spider Temple where I was coaxing a pack of zombies and ghouls to tread on this pressure plate and get spiked to death.

[Tweed]

It's pretty obvious which way the devs want you to go with the story and I think it's great. Plus, you can do terrible things to Leanna.

[Fuze]

Sanctuary is ridiculously good, if your pair it with mana regen and the staff of mana stealing, you can pretty much sustain it indefinitely. It's cheesy but it work, and fuck fighting ghoul on hard.

[WhiteShark]

Sanctuary is ridiculously good, if your pair it with mana regen and the staff of mana stealing, you can pretty much sustain it indefinitely.

I didn't try this but it doesn't even sound necessary. The spell is cheap enough and lasts long enough that one or two casts should get you through most fights unless you're taking on a whole horde at once... which I guess you could probably do with this tactic. Frankly I expected it to be shorter or to end when you attacked or something. I didn't expect it to make you literally invincible with no caveat.

It's cheesy but it work, and fuck fighting ghoul anything on hard.

Fixed that for you. Aside from goblins there were basically no enemies that I felt comfortable battling fairly.

[Roguey]

In true imsim fashion, it's totally possible to get past what'shername without killing her (there's no scripted reactivity for it, but your conscience is clean if you're playing a loyal-but-not-bad character).

[WhiteShark]

In true imsim fashion, it's totally possible to get past what'shername without killing her (there's no scripted reactivity for it, but your conscience is clean if you're playing a loyal-but-not-bad character).

I did wonder about that. Opening the door takes so long that I doubt you could do it normally, but maybe with Sanctuary spam (or some other technique of which I have not thought)... On the other hand, you get two or three skill points for killing her, so I probably wouldn't have skipped it anyway.