Games peaked in 2001, graphics peaked in 2014

[J1M]

I first noticed some of these issues when I played Halo 4 at a friend's house. The dithering algorithms used to hide pop-in were hilarious. It's nice to see someone put together a concise video showing the problems that DLSS, TAA, and related technologies have led to.

When I was younger I had no idea how much the hobby I picked would have in common with radio dramas. I dreaded the thought that I would die having never seen the heights the industry could rise to. Instead I got to participate contemporaneously in its golden age and witness its fall from grace.

I wonder if my kids will feel that way about short, portrait-mode, video clips.

[rusty_shackleford]

addressing the most negative aspects affecting modern game development

I have a feeling it isn't going to actually do that…

[J1M]

addressing the most negative aspects affecting modern game development

I have a feeling it isn't going to actually do that…

His kickstarter pitch is obviously a pipe dream, but the video is useful for anchoring a thread about how graphics have become worse.

[Nooneatall]

Not only do graphics look bad or just okay they are using way more system resources than needed. That Indiana Jones game looks marginally better than skyrim and runs like **** and needs a super computer

[logincrash]

I hate modern gaming.

[Xenich]

Not only do graphics look bad or just okay they are using way more system resources than needed. That Indiana Jones game looks marginally better than skyrim and runs like **** and needs a super computer

I don't think it is being done because of incompetence, rather to gimmick and bleed consumers. It is the same they do with vehicles, appliances, etc... they can make better, but it isn't as profitable and they are building in a return buyer.

If you custom your vehicle, replace all the garbage, rip out the various cancer systems (ie DEF, EGR, etc..) and put in custom made/tailored parts, streamline various things, etc.. the vehicle will get better gas milage and last far longer (ie a diesel truck that goes from 100-150k miles before it has issues to pushing 1 million miles without problems).

This is the same with appliances. I have a dryer that was made about 30 years ago, I have replaced the parts with solid 3rd party market stuff and it has lasted 10 times longer than the average appliance.

Every market is this way, from food, appliances, electronics, etc...

It is all a gimmicks to get you to upgrade and buy more things. The whole market is a joke ran by people who have no interest in innovation or the "need" of the consumer. People are cattle to be led to slaughter.

Hmm... I wonder what people have a business mentality that drives this sort of behavior... hmmm...

[logincrash]

Hmm... I wonder what people have a business mentality that drives this sort of behavior... hmmm...

Oh, for crying out loud, literally every single problem leads back to ****.

[Xenich]

Hmm... I wonder what people have a business mentality that drives this sort of behavior... hmmm...

Oh, for crying out loud, literally every single problem leads back to ****.

Their mentality at least. There are plenty of others who have sold out to this philosophy, though it doesn't hurt when the bulk of the industry is owned by all the same people.

[J1M]

Congrats on your speedrunning achievement. Please take this topic to its own thread.

[logincrash]

Congrats on your speedrunning achievement. Please take this topic to its own thread.

What did he mean by this?

[Xenich]

Congrats on your speedrunning achievement. Please take this topic to its own thread.

What did he mean by this?

I assume he thinks we are going too far off topic to what he intended the discussion to be conformed to.

To be fair, my comment was related to how development (regardless of field) is not focused to a genuine improvement to tech, but a means to market off it in some way.

[rusty_shackleford]

You know, I know this frame doesn't exist. I know that when I put it in front of my eyes, the engine is telling my brain that it is real and high resolution. After nine years, you know what I realize?

It looks like ******* ****.

[Nooneatall]

Sorry my face got tired

[Yankee Zulu]

Sure thing if "blurriness" is your criteria of graphics... You know pixel **** is the best ****. Whatever edgy and ******** headlines youtubers want to make these days to get attention. This thing hasnt changed.

[logincrash]

Congrats on your speedrunning achievement. Please take this topic to its own thread.

What did he mean by this?

I assume he thinks we are going too far off topic to what he intended the discussion to be conformed to.

To be fair, my comment was related to how development (regardless of field) is not focused to a genuine improvement to tech, but a means to market off it in some way.

Extremely faggy if true.

[Vergil]

No game needs to look better than MGS3.

[Xenich]

Market is partly to blame as well. The number of graphic snobs out there is astounding. I know people who will refuse to play an amazingly great game that is everything they would want, but because the graphics aren't to the level they want, they refuse to play it.

So, in those circles, I think it helped contribute to all the focus being on graphics over game play. The fact that we now have crappy graphics built upon years of crap gaming systems is rather amusing.

[Daxa]

Could also be a case of limitations? In the past, the hardware was the limitation for some games. The ideas were there, the drive to take it to the limit and make everything possible with as little space as possible so it could fit into a cartridge or a CD that had at most 8GB of space.

Today, with download-only games, SSDs, HDDs getting bigger, and hardware getting stronger and stronger, this means the limitations that were once there are no longer a factor. They don't need to optimize as much, they don't need to have lower sizes, and they don't have to limit their engines and everything because companies will always make stronger and bigger consoles/PC parts. so what do we get? we should get better and more impressive games, yet we get stagnation

This, for me, is the reason why gaming has gone to pure **** (along with OTHER reasons... already said in this topic).

[J1M]

Market is partly to blame as well. The number of graphic snobs out there is astounding. I know people who will refuse to play an amazingly great game that is everything they would want, but because the graphics aren't to the level they want, they refuse to play it.

So, in those circles, I think it helped contribute to all the focus being on graphics over game play. The fact that we now have crappy graphics built upon years of crap gaming systems is rather amusing.

If they are willing to accept anything that is 30 fps and blurry, how are they graphics snobs?

[rusty_shackleford]

I actually don't think the market for "high fidelity graphics" is even there. It's talked about a lot, but I've yet to see conclusive evidence it affects a sizeable portion of the customer base.
I strongly disagree with the notion of "art style is more important", " use a stylized look", etc., Many of my favorite games would be worse if they weren't done in a 'realistic' style because it sets the tone. For the same reason I hate playing animango games, games using a realistic style generally convey a tone better for the subjects I prefer.

This doesn't mean it has to be high fidelity realistic tho. Perhaps the two are conflated because of people saying "x game didn't age as well" compared to stylized alternatives... And... Maybe? Plenty of games with realistic styles did age well.


Ironically if it does exist, I'd bet it's far more prevalent on consoles.

[Xenich]

Market is partly to blame as well. The number of graphic snobs out there is astounding. I know people who will refuse to play an amazingly great game that is everything they would want, but because the graphics aren't to the level they want, they refuse to play it.

So, in those circles, I think it helped contribute to all the focus being on graphics over game play. The fact that we now have crappy graphics built upon years of crap gaming systems is rather amusing.

If they are willing to accept anything that is 30 fps and blurry, how are they graphics snobs?

Well, they don't "accept it" these days, which is why I say it is amusing to see it now because all they have to choose from is pure garbage. The thing is, there was a period where everything that came out, people would expect the next evolution of graphics, and would dismiss game play (well initially until they played and complained later) over it.

There was a period where games started to look a lot better, watching it from the 90's on, things kept getting much nicer, cleaner, more realistic, etc... and that was the consistent demand. At what point they started to really go downhill, that I am not entirely sure.

[Xenich]

I actually don't think the market for "high fidelity graphics" is even there. It's talked about a lot, but I've yet to see conclusive evidence it affects a sizeable portion of the customer base.
I strongly disagree with the notion of "art style is more important", " use a stylized look", etc., Many of my favorite games would be worse if they weren't done in a 'realistic' style because it sets the tone. For the same reason I hate playing animango games, games using a realistic style generally convey a tone better for the subjects I prefer.

This doesn't mean it has to be high fidelity realistic tho. Perhaps the two are conflated because of people saying "x game didn't age as well" compared to stylized alternatives... And... Maybe? Plenty of games with realistic styles did age well.

Yeah, stylized is fine when it is done due to a certain reasoning and goal, but simply doing outside of that seems to... well... backfire quite a bit.

[J1M]

Market is partly to blame as well. The number of graphic snobs out there is astounding. I know people who will refuse to play an amazingly great game that is everything they would want, but because the graphics aren't to the level they want, they refuse to play it.

So, in those circles, I think it helped contribute to all the focus being on graphics over game play. The fact that we now have crappy graphics built upon years of crap gaming systems is rather amusing.

If they are willing to accept anything that is 30 fps and blurry, how are they graphics snobs?

Well, they don't "accept it" these days, which is why I say it is amusing to see it now because all they have to choose from is pure garbage. The thing is, there was a period where everything that came out, people would expect the next evolution of graphics, and would dismiss game play (well initially until they played and complained later) over it.

There was a period where games started to look a lot better, watching it from the 90's on, things kept getting much nicer, cleaner, more realistic, etc... and that was the consistent demand. At what point they started to really go downhill, that I am not entirely sure.

They accepted it for 10 consecutive years, which is how we arrived where we are today.

[J1M]

I actually don't think the market for "high fidelity graphics" is even there. It's talked about a lot, but I've yet to see conclusive evidence it affects a sizeable portion of the customer base.
I strongly disagree with the notion of "art style is more important", " use a stylized look", etc., Many of my favorite games would be worse if they weren't done in a 'realistic' style because it sets the tone. For the same reason I hate playing animango games, games using a realistic style generally convey a tone better for the subjects I prefer.

This doesn't mean it has to be high fidelity realistic tho. Perhaps the two are conflated because of people saying "x game didn't age as well" compared to stylized alternatives... And... Maybe? Plenty of games with realistic styles did age well.

I think people have a strong aversion to anything that they will feel embarrassed to be seen playing. As long as the art doesn't fail that litmus test it is fine. 2D/cartoon/realistic all have points where they fail the test. Such as excessive gore in a realistic style.

[Thor Kaufman]

Not only do graphics look bad or just okay they are using way more system resources than needed. That Indiana Jones game looks marginally better than skyrim and runs like **** and needs a super computer

I don't think it is being done because of incompetence, rather to gimmick and bleed consumers. It is the same they do with vehicles, appliances, etc... they can make better, but it isn't as profitable and they are building in a return buyer.

If you custom your vehicle, replace all the garbage, rip out the various cancer systems (ie DEL, EGR, etc..) and put in custom made/tailored parts, streamline various things, etc.. the vehicle will get better gas milage and last far longer (ie a diesel truck that goes from 100-150k miles before it has issues to pushing 1 million miles without problems).

This is the same with appliances. I have a dryer that was made about 30 years ago, I have replaced the parts with solid 3rd party market stuff and it has lasted 10 times longer than the average appliance.

Every market is this way, from food, appliances, electronics, etc...

It is all a gimmicks to get you to upgrade and buy more things. The whole market is a joke ran by people who have no interest in innovation or the "need" of the consumer. People are cattle to be led to slaughter.

Hmm... I wonder what people have a business mentality that drives this sort of behavior... hmmm...

Soon you will rent everything and everything will be smart. You will own nothing and Shlomo will be happy.

From Middle English smert, smart, from Old English smeart (“smarting, smart, painful”), from Proto-Germanic *smartaz (“hurting, aching”), from Proto-Indo-European *(s)merd- (“to bite, sting”).

[WhiteShark]

I strongly disagree with the notion of "art style is more important", " use a stylized look", etc., Many of my favorite games would be worse if they weren't done in a 'realistic' style because it sets the tone. For the same reason I hate playing animango games, games using a realistic style generally convey a tone better for the subjects I prefer.

This doesn't mean it has to be high fidelity realistic tho. Perhaps the two are conflated because of people saying "x game didn't age as well" compared to stylized alternatives... And... Maybe? Plenty of games with realistic styles did age well.

Realism is an art style, and it can be handled well or poorly given the same graphical limitations, so, yes, art style is more important than pure fidelity.

[Yankee Zulu]

This whole thing is overexaggerated as usual. Do some modern games have poor optimization and too high system requirements? Yes, its true. Have graphics not progressed since 2014? They most certainly have. There was a time when I thought Gothic 2 graphics were state of the art. Not today but I still enjoy the art direction and style, I loved Archolos.

The american "big tech", i.e. the **** are to blame. There are only 2 american corps which control CPUs and GPUs, two most important components for gaming. They do whatever the **** they want.

Another part is game engines. I say the more of them the better because competition. Others say **** you we want Unreal engine. **** Unity as well.
Dagor engine looks really good and performs better than Unreal but who the **** uses it besides Gaijin?

All you can do is whine whine whine

[Xenich]

If they are willing to accept anything that is 30 fps and blurry, how are they graphics snobs?

Well, they don't "accept it" these days, which is why I say it is amusing to see it now because all they have to choose from is pure garbage. The thing is, there was a period where everything that came out, people would expect the next evolution of graphics, and would dismiss game play (well initially until they played and complained later) over it.

There was a period where games started to look a lot better, watching it from the 90's on, things kept getting much nicer, cleaner, more realistic, etc... and that was the consistent demand. At what point they started to really go downhill, that I am not entirely sure.

They accepted it for 10 consecutive years, which is how we arrived where we are today.

Same generation though? Was there a shift in the dominance of gamers in that time where the next generation were more accepting of it? I think a lot of the gamers in the 90's became the minority? Or did the companies just not care and pushed the slop anyway?

[Xenich]

This whole thing is overexaggerated as usual. Do some modern games have poor optimization and too high system requirements? Yes, its true. Have graphics not progressed since 2014? They most certainly have. There was a time when I thought Gothic 2 graphics were state of the art. Not today but I still enjoy the art direction and style, I loved Archolos.

The american "big tech", i.e. the **** are to blame. There are only 2 american corps which control CPUs and GPUs, two most important components for gaming. They do whatever the **** they want.

Another part is game engines. I say the more of them the better because competition. Others say **** you we want Unreal engine. **** Unity as well.
Dagor engine looks really good and performs better than Unreal but who the **** uses it besides Gaijin?

All you can do is whine whine whine

That does look really nice. It runs smooth and less requirements on system specs?

[rusty_shackleford]

This whole thing is overexaggerated as usual. Do some modern games have poor optimization and too high system requirements? Yes, its true. Have graphics not progressed since 2014? They most certainly have. There was a time when I thought Gothic 2 graphics were state of the art. Not today but I still enjoy the art direction and style, I loved Archolos.

The american "big tech", i.e. the **** are to blame. There are only 2 american corps which control CPUs and GPUs, two most important components for gaming. They do whatever the **** they want.

Another part is game engines. I say the more of them the better because competition. Others say **** you we want Unreal engine. **** Unity as well.
Dagor engine looks really good and performs better than Unreal but who the **** uses it besides Gaijin?

All you can do is whine whine whine

It has no documentation, exactly one studio knows how it works, and is purpose made for one game.
The reason there's so little competition is because game engines stand next to operating systems as the most complex pieces of software that exist. It's no surprise why devs want to outsource this.


Also, GPUs are controlled by island ******.