Knights of the Old Republic

[Vergil]

Playing a lot of Starwind lately has put me in the mood to get back into the KOTOR series (and even, God forgive me, mess around with SWTOR again). The second game was one of the first RPGs I remember playing due to being obsessed with Star Wars as a kid and it's remained one of my all time favorites out of any genre. They're a little "baby's first RPG" looking back on it (being xbox games first and foremost definitely doesn't help) but I still think they have plenty of room for fun and interesting builds. The atmosphere alone is top notch too, even some dedicated survival horror games fail to evoke the same sort of feeling as the Manaan research facility in KOTOR I or Peragus (which if you hate you got mega pleb filtered btw) in TSL.
Which of the two do you guys prefer? And how do you feel about SWTOR? Personally I despise how much it ruined the characterization of Revan and the Exile and completely wasted the potential of the true Sith plotline for typical original trilogy space nazis re-tread. As it's own thing though there is some enjoyment to be mined out of it as a typical MMO with some amusing story sections where you can be an evil red space nazi.

[Boontaker]

Playing a lot of Starwind lately has put me in the mood to get back into the KOTOR series (and even, God forgive me, mess around with SWTOR again). The second game was one of the first RPGs I remember playing due to being obsessed with Star Wars as a kid and it's remained one of my all time favorites out of any genre. They're a little "baby's first RPG" looking back on it (being xbox games first and foremost definitely doesn't help) but I still think they have plenty of room for fun and interesting builds. The atmosphere alone is top notch too, even some dedicated survival horror games fail to evoke the same sort of feeling as the Manaan research facility in KOTOR I or Peragus (which if you hate you got mega pleb filtered btw) in TSL.
Which of the two do you guys prefer? And how do you feel about SWTOR? Personally I despise how much it ruined the characterization of Revan and the Exile and completely wasted the potential of the true Sith plotline for typical original trilogy space nazis re-tread. As it's own thing though there is some enjoyment to be mined out of it as a typical MMO with some amusing story sections where you can be an evil red space nazi.

Your legendary Sith Warrior is going to be girlbossed to death, enjoy

[Oyster Sauce]

One time I loaded KotOR 2 in the living room in front of family, forgetting that I had just sparred with Handmaiden so she was only wearing her underwear

I should just kill myself

[Vergil]

Your legendary Sith Warrior is going to be girlbossed to death, enjoy

Jokes on you I stopped playing any story content after I sat on the epic throne of total cool badass absolute power (that was obviously going to amount to nothing because it's an MMO) and mentally ended my character's story there. Their desperate attempts to return to the traditional Republic v Sith Empire storyline after totally sucker ******* it means nothing to me.

One time I loaded KotOR 2 in the living room in front of family, forgetting that I had just sparred with Handmaiden so she was only wearing her underwear

I should just kill myself

Your family was secretly happy you weren't a homosexual it's okay.

[ArcaneLurker]

In favour of KOTOR 2 is Kreia and her take on the Force, but other than that, I think KOTOR 2 was unfinished compared to KOTOR 1. I enjoyed playing through KOTOR 1 much more, but parts of the dialogue in KOTOR 2 stuck with me longer.

I didn't get to play SWTOR much, but I quickly realised that the Jedi & Republic were super boring, and only Bounty-hunters & Sith were worthwhile.
It felt like quite a jank MMO to play at the time compared to other MMOs I had played-- and of course, I really wanted a similar experience to the previous singleplayer games, except improved.

Now, I wonder if the ATB system in FF7I could be improved and mixed with KOTOR? I think that would be more engaging than the combat gameplay in the original KOTOR.
Although, I think it's time for a new sci-fi-fantasy-space-opera IP-- if you had to create a fiction to fill the void of SW, and it was for a game like these, what would it be like?

[Vergil]

n favour of KOTOR 2 is Kreia and her take on the Force, but other than that, I think KOTOR 2 was unfinished compared to KOTOR 1. I enjoyed playing through KOTOR 1 much more, but parts of the dialogue in KOTOR 2 stuck with me longer.

It is a hard thing to take into consideration considering how long the restored content mod has been out now. I think on their own KOTOR I has a far more consistent experience in terms of quality whilst TSL has greater peaks and valleys with TSLRCM helping to lift up some of those valleys.

I think it's time for a new sci-fi-fantasy-space-opera IP-- if you had to create a fiction to fill the void of SW, and it was for a game like these, what would it be like?

This is a thread about a Star Wars series of games.

[ArcaneLurker]

It is a hard thing to take into consideration considering how long the restored content mod has been out now. I think on their own KOTOR I has a far more consistent experience in terms of quality whilst TSL has greater peaks and valleys with TSLRCM helping to lift up some of those valleys.

I agree with that and I don't think I've played KOTOR 2 with the restored content.

This is a thread about a Star Wars series of games.

But Star Wars is DEAD to me

[Vergil]

I agree with that and I don't think I've played KOTOR 2 with the restored content.

Of course I highly recommend it but I also also ut the Unofficial TSLRCM Tweak Pack 1.3 on top of it as there's a few things that were restored that were probably best left on the cutting room floor (mainly the " Component 1 - Jorran the extortionist instead of Kaeve the thief ") due to not being implemented the best. Also a warning to everyone do NOT install the "M4-78 Enhancement Project". I can appreciate the level of work that went into it but there's so little left in the game files as to what the droid planet was supposed to be like it's mostly fan fiction and the world space is extremely empty and boring to play. It really fucks up the pacing of the story too.

But Star Wars is DEAD to me

Hey rusty was begging people to make more topics the other day this sounds like it could have potential.

[rusty_shackleford]

kotor >>>>>> kotor 2

[Oyster Sauce]

kotor >>>>>> kotor 2

In theory I should like 2 more, but I've only finished it once and 1 several times

[Vergil]

kotor >>>>>> kotor 2

In theory I should like 2 more, but I've only finished it once and 1 several times

What makes you say that you should like it more? And what usually ends up killing playthroughs of 2 for you? The Telos surface used to be a big filter for me back in the day.

[ArcaneLurker]

kotor >>>>>> kotor 2

In theory I should like 2 more, but I've only finished it once and 1 several times

What makes you say that you should like it more? And what usually ends up killing playthroughs of 2 for you? The Telos surface used to be a big filter for me back in the day.

A lot of the planets felt kind of empty to me-- or they didn't draw me in, in the same way places in KOTOR 1 did.
Telos surface did make me quit for a while when I was a kid, when I went back to it, I just had to take the game more seriously.

[Oyster Sauce]

kotor >>>>>> kotor 2

In theory I should like 2 more, but I've only finished it once and 1 several times

What makes you say that you should like it more? And what usually ends up killing playthroughs of 2 for you? The Telos surface used to be a big filter for me back in the day.

Less generic plot and companions, more serious setting where the NPCs don't speak like Archie characters, better gameplay too I think?
I remember not liking the sections where I was forced to play as level 1 benchwarmers and the ending planet being incredibly confusing.
Last attempt I spent over an hour tediously installing some mod that increases background NPC variety and I don't think I left Czerka/hippyville.

Maybe I just like the generic stuff and the satisfying ending where I get an army and infinite evil drone ships to do my bidding.

[Vergil]

A lot of the planets felt kind of empty to me-- or they didn't draw me in, in the same way places in KOTOR 1 did.

I can see that, I personally enjoy the more desolate and foreboding atmosphere for TSL but the planets are typically much less lively than 1. With TSL even the populated planets have such a constant oppressive air of desperation to them that makes the whole thing feel much more unique. I also like not being forced into being a member of the Jedi at the start where it just doesn't make sense for your character to act evil and everyone just sort of tolerates it no matter matter what until you get to a certain point at least..
Do you guys typically play light side or dark side in these games?

[rusty_shackleford]

KOTOR 2 just feels like a whole lot of retreading + it's completely unfinished, inexcusable. Don't care about post-launch fan content.

[ArcaneLurker]

A lot of the planets felt kind of empty to me-- or they didn't draw me in, in the same way places in KOTOR 1 did.

Do you guys typically play light side or dark side in these games?

Both, but I think the Grey route is the most fun-- just doing whatever seems like the best option at the time.

[Vergil]

A lot of the planets felt kind of empty to me-- or they didn't draw me in, in the same way places in KOTOR 1 did.

Do you guys typically play light side or dark side in these games?

Both, but I think the Grey route is the most fun-- just doing whatever seems like the best option at the time.

For TSL I tend to be somewhat grey but leaning more towards the dark side. For KOTOR I I think that narrative-wise and thematically it's best/most fun to start mostly light sided/grey and then end up going full dark side towards the ending.

[WhiteShark]

I'm an incorrigible goody two shoes in nearly every RPG. I played and enjoyed both KotORs, but I think 1 was more impactful. I didn't see the twist coming at all and it totally blew my mind.

[Vergil]

I usually just go with what I myself would do in the given situation which usually ends up putting me neutral to slightly light side in KOTOR I until I start deliberately becoming evil. Before that the game is pretty awful with making every dark side choice ******** spergery that causes you to lose out on content/rewards.

[Vergil]

Figured I would post this autismo rant I went on among a friend group who had asked why I played KOTOR the way I do and why I think it's a superior way to play. Spoilers for the first game obviously (21 year old game btw).

► Show Spoiler

Before the Jedi Order mind wiped him Revan was basically walking along a VERY thin tight **** of using the dark side for pragmatic purposes without letting it fully truly corrupt him. When the Jedi mind wiped him they basically took someone who was fully immersed in the dark side but keeping it under control through sheer force of will/training and removed his will/training. As you go through the game and get stronger/more attuned with the force that dark side energy is corrupting you without the memories and will/planning to use it for the pragmatic reasons Revan was using it for. Adding onto that you then learn the Jedi have been lying to you the whole time and using you as their tool the whole time so whatever faith mind-wiped Revan had in their teachings/righteousness would be seriously called into question. Making it even worse if you do Korriban last you are inducted into the Sith Academy and learning a different ideology that is perfect for someone who is losing their faith in the Jedi way. Not to mention the power of the dark side being extremely strong there. So, by the end of the game you decide you know what? **** it, **** the Jedi who have lied to me, I am extremely powerful, I am Darth Revan and I'm going to embrace that (or the version of Revan you have been taught who is just an evil Sith Lord). Doing the dark side ending leads to certain companions dying who don't get a cameo or even a mention in KOTOR II, explains why the Republic is SO ****** and on the brink of collapse (despite super winning in the light side ending), and Revan's memories/purpose returning leads him to leave to fight the true Sith on his own since his plans have been ruined.
That's the base level direct storyline reasoning
I also think on a meta/thematic level it works better that way too
On a thematic level it really doesn't sit right with me that the "good" ending basically justifies doing a forced lobotomy on somebody and then grooming them to do your bidding and it all works out in the end all happy like that's what you should do as a light side jedi. Wiping Revan's memory and essentially "killing" him as a person but going one step further and keeping his body around to use as a puppet is a MASSIVE moral lapse for the "good" Jedi Order and their plan basically back firing and causing Revan to return but WAY worse because of their inability to understand him, his plans, and the bigger picture (just like like with the mandalorian wars) is a perfect reap what you sow moment. Instead of any reflection since the mandalorian wars, the jedi civil war etc they continued their ivory tower "we know whats right how dare you question us" to the point of brain wiping someone and just like that ****** them over with the mandalorian wars it ****** them over here. Similar to the prequel era the Jedi Order had fallen from it's purpose and became an ineffective corrupt system that needed to be burnt to the ground so something new can form.

[Orvas Dren]

Figured I would post this autismo rant I went on among a friend group who had asked why I played KOTOR the way I do and why I think it's a superior way to play. Spoilers for the first game obviously (21 year old game btw).

► Show Spoiler

Before the Jedi Order mind wiped him Revan was basically walking along a VERY thin tight **** of using the dark side for pragmatic purposes without letting it fully truly corrupt him. When the Jedi mind wiped him they basically took someone who was fully immersed in the dark side but keeping it under control through sheer force of will/training and removed his will/training. As you go through the game and get stronger/more attuned with the force that dark side energy is corrupting you without the memories and will/planning to use it for the pragmatic reasons Revan was using it for. Adding onto that you then learn the Jedi have been lying to you the whole time and using you as their tool the whole time so whatever faith mind-wiped Revan had in their teachings/righteousness would be seriously called into question. Making it even worse if you do Korriban last you are inducted into the Sith Academy and learning a different ideology that is perfect for someone who is losing their faith in the Jedi way. Not to mention the power of the dark side being extremely strong there. So, by the end of the game you decide you know what? **** it, **** the Jedi who have lied to me, I am extremely powerful, I am Darth Revan and I'm going to embrace that (or the version of Revan you have been taught who is just an evil Sith Lord). Doing the dark side ending leads to certain companions dying who don't get a cameo or even a mention in KOTOR II, explains why the Republic is SO ****** and on the brink of collapse (despite super winning in the light side ending), and Revan's memories/purpose returning leads him to leave to fight the true Sith on his own since his plans have been ruined.
That's the base level direct storyline reasoning
I also think on a meta/thematic level it works better that way too
On a thematic level it really doesn't sit right with me that the "good" ending basically justifies doing a forced lobotomy on somebody and then grooming them to do your bidding and it all works out in the end all happy like that's what you should do as a light side jedi. Wiping Revan's memory and essentially "killing" him as a person but going one step further and keeping his body around to use as a puppet is a MASSIVE moral lapse for the "good" Jedi Order and their plan basically back firing and causing Revan to return but WAY worse because of their inability to understand him, his plans, and the bigger picture (just like like with the mandalorian wars) is a perfect reap what you sow moment. Instead of any reflection since the mandalorian wars, the jedi civil war etc they continued their ivory tower "we know whats right how dare you question us" to the point of brain wiping someone and just like that ****** them over with the mandalorian wars it ****** them over here. Similar to the prequel era the Jedi Order had fallen from it's purpose and became an ineffective corrupt system that needed to be burnt to the ground so something new can form.

Seems like the jedi have been reaping what they sow for their entire existence lol

[Vergil]

Figured I would post this autismo rant I went on among a friend group who had asked why I played KOTOR the way I do and why I think it's a superior way to play. Spoilers for the first game obviously (21 year old game btw).

► Show Spoiler

Before the Jedi Order mind wiped him Revan was basically walking along a VERY thin tight **** of using the dark side for pragmatic purposes without letting it fully truly corrupt him. When the Jedi mind wiped him they basically took someone who was fully immersed in the dark side but keeping it under control through sheer force of will/training and removed his will/training. As you go through the game and get stronger/more attuned with the force that dark side energy is corrupting you without the memories and will/planning to use it for the pragmatic reasons Revan was using it for. Adding onto that you then learn the Jedi have been lying to you the whole time and using you as their tool the whole time so whatever faith mind-wiped Revan had in their teachings/righteousness would be seriously called into question. Making it even worse if you do Korriban last you are inducted into the Sith Academy and learning a different ideology that is perfect for someone who is losing their faith in the Jedi way. Not to mention the power of the dark side being extremely strong there. So, by the end of the game you decide you know what? **** it, **** the Jedi who have lied to me, I am extremely powerful, I am Darth Revan and I'm going to embrace that (or the version of Revan you have been taught who is just an evil Sith Lord). Doing the dark side ending leads to certain companions dying who don't get a cameo or even a mention in KOTOR II, explains why the Republic is SO ****** and on the brink of collapse (despite super winning in the light side ending), and Revan's memories/purpose returning leads him to leave to fight the true Sith on his own since his plans have been ruined.
That's the base level direct storyline reasoning
I also think on a meta/thematic level it works better that way too
On a thematic level it really doesn't sit right with me that the "good" ending basically justifies doing a forced lobotomy on somebody and then grooming them to do your bidding and it all works out in the end all happy like that's what you should do as a light side jedi. Wiping Revan's memory and essentially "killing" him as a person but going one step further and keeping his body around to use as a puppet is a MASSIVE moral lapse for the "good" Jedi Order and their plan basically back firing and causing Revan to return but WAY worse because of their inability to understand him, his plans, and the bigger picture (just like like with the mandalorian wars) is a perfect reap what you sow moment. Instead of any reflection since the mandalorian wars, the jedi civil war etc they continued their ivory tower "we know whats right how dare you question us" to the point of brain wiping someone and just like that ****** them over with the mandalorian wars it ****** them over here. Similar to the prequel era the Jedi Order had fallen from it's purpose and became an ineffective corrupt system that needed to be burnt to the ground so something new can form.

Seems like the jedi have been reaping what they sow for their entire existence lol

Hey the Jedi are great and stable when they're like 4 people total after a century of devastation

[Orvas Dren]

Figured I would post this autismo rant I went on among a friend group who had asked why I played KOTOR the way I do and why I think it's a superior way to play. Spoilers for the first game obviously (21 year old game btw).

► Show Spoiler

Before the Jedi Order mind wiped him Revan was basically walking along a VERY thin tight **** of using the dark side for pragmatic purposes without letting it fully truly corrupt him. When the Jedi mind wiped him they basically took someone who was fully immersed in the dark side but keeping it under control through sheer force of will/training and removed his will/training. As you go through the game and get stronger/more attuned with the force that dark side energy is corrupting you without the memories and will/planning to use it for the pragmatic reasons Revan was using it for. Adding onto that you then learn the Jedi have been lying to you the whole time and using you as their tool the whole time so whatever faith mind-wiped Revan had in their teachings/righteousness would be seriously called into question. Making it even worse if you do Korriban last you are inducted into the Sith Academy and learning a different ideology that is perfect for someone who is losing their faith in the Jedi way. Not to mention the power of the dark side being extremely strong there. So, by the end of the game you decide you know what? **** it, **** the Jedi who have lied to me, I am extremely powerful, I am Darth Revan and I'm going to embrace that (or the version of Revan you have been taught who is just an evil Sith Lord). Doing the dark side ending leads to certain companions dying who don't get a cameo or even a mention in KOTOR II, explains why the Republic is SO ****** and on the brink of collapse (despite super winning in the light side ending), and Revan's memories/purpose returning leads him to leave to fight the true Sith on his own since his plans have been ruined.
That's the base level direct storyline reasoning
I also think on a meta/thematic level it works better that way too
On a thematic level it really doesn't sit right with me that the "good" ending basically justifies doing a forced lobotomy on somebody and then grooming them to do your bidding and it all works out in the end all happy like that's what you should do as a light side jedi. Wiping Revan's memory and essentially "killing" him as a person but going one step further and keeping his body around to use as a puppet is a MASSIVE moral lapse for the "good" Jedi Order and their plan basically back firing and causing Revan to return but WAY worse because of their inability to understand him, his plans, and the bigger picture (just like like with the mandalorian wars) is a perfect reap what you sow moment. Instead of any reflection since the mandalorian wars, the jedi civil war etc they continued their ivory tower "we know whats right how dare you question us" to the point of brain wiping someone and just like that ****** them over with the mandalorian wars it ****** them over here. Similar to the prequel era the Jedi Order had fallen from it's purpose and became an ineffective corrupt system that needed to be burnt to the ground so something new can form.

Seems like the jedi have been reaping what they sow for their entire existence lol

Hey the Jedi are great and stable when they're like 4 people total after a century of devastation

The lib Taliban

[Vergil]

The Exile from TSL is a man and making them canonical female was years later by bioware (who are clearly hostile towards the game and its characters) as an offhand comment for diversity points with no input from any people who worked on TSL.

[Oyster Sauce]

The Exile from TSL is a man and making them canonical female was years later by bioware (who are clearly hostile towards the game and its characters) as an offhand comment for diversity points with no input from any people who worked on TSL.

Never seen a character save import system that much more impressive than 2's man/woman good/evil conversation

[Goldsnivy1]

I had 1's Revan reveal spoiled for me because Steam decided to promote a Rock, Paper, Shotgun article at the top of my KotOR feed before I got to that point in the game. I'm still bitter about that, years later.

I didn't actually play KotOR 2 until almost a year after TLJ came out, and I credit it as the thing that made me realize just how much of a cesspool that movie is (thought it sucked before playing the game, absolutely loathed it after playing). I've beaten both games several times now, though I've played through 1 a few more times because I don't always want to worry about companion influence. That being said, I do prefer the underlying mechanical improvements of 2 better and I think it has greater replayability since there is greater depth between dialogue options and the influence system.

I typically prefer the LS route in both (though pragmatic; I'm not handing money over to random assholes unless it's chump change), though I've been meaning to do a DS run in 2 where I push the companions toward the light side and keep the Jedi masters. Maybe that'll be good for this year's playthrough ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Vergil]

Never seen a character save import system that much more impressive than 2's man/woman good/evil conversation

Very quick and easy way to establish things and probably saves a lot of time not having to design and program a bunch a little meaningless ******** encounters to justify the save import gimmick.

though I've been meaning to do a DS run in 2 where I push the companions toward the light side and keep the Jedi masters. Maybe that'll be good for this year's playthrough ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I've always wondered what happens if you go full dark side but spare the Jedi Masters. I had one playthrough where I did almost exactly that but it ended up not getting finished. The allure of killing them and absorbing their powers is always so hard to resist.

[Vergil]

How do you guys feel about the KOTOR era mandalorian armor? I used to think it was really cool but over the years I've kinda turned against it. The extremely tiny face plate looks kind of goofy to me now.

[ArcaneLurker]

How do you guys feel about the KOTOR era mandalorian armor? I used to think it was really cool but over the years I've kinda turned against it. The extremely tiny face plate looks kind of goofy to me now.

I like it although the "tiny faces" are like a protrusion in the helmet, it's a unique design choice. I did think the same as you until I messed around with a head reference in photoshop, seeing how the design could potentially work.

Kind of reminds me of this.

[rusty_shackleford]

The Exile from TSL is a man and making them canonical female was years later by bioware (who are clearly hostile towards the game and its characters) as an offhand comment for diversity points with no input from any people who worked on TSL.

Not true, the exile shows up in SWTOR.
https://swtor-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Meetra_Surik

Fun fact: the handmaiden being with her is also canon despite it being for the male exile.