Should the skill IDENTIFY be required to identify all monsters and items or is it ANNOYING?

[NotAI]

Suppose by default nothing identified.

If items are not identified, they can still be used, and you have to figure out and write down the effect. Dangerous since some are cursed items. And must meet prerequisites to equip, which are unknown until identified.

If monsters are not identified, not even level, name, HP bar, never mind more info on special attacks or weaknesses, nothing popups when aimed at. Must be identified using skill or scroll.

So is requiring the use of the SKILL/SPELL IDENTIFY annoying if systematically required?

It seems unidentified items, never mind monsters, has waned 1995-2025. Why do you think?

[rusty_shackleford]

Poll is worded the opposite of the title.
I love having to learn what the names of people are, what creatures are, etc., As little ESP(unless it's an actual game feature) as possible, please.


?SNAKE?

[Oyster Sauce]

I like how your companions in Dragon's Dogma see which strategies are effective/ineffective against specific monsters by seeing you fight them and figure it out, and then applying what they've learned in the future. Would rather see more of that than an identify skill.

[gerey]

If monsters are not identified, not even level, name, HP bar, never mind more info on special attacks or weaknesses, nothing popups when aimed at. Must be identified using skill or scroll.

For monsters, I prefer the Witcher approach, you need to do your research to figure out what works on a monster, where they dwell, their behavior, what they eat etc.

It seems unidentified items, never mind monsters, has waned 1995-2025. Why do you think?

Identifying items is more of a chore than anything. It's a minuscule drain on your resources and mostly wastes your time.

Now if figuring out some ancient magical item involved a whole quest chain - delving into ancient ruins of the culture that made said item to uncover more information, hunting down academics to shed light on the item, or breaking into some noble's manor to get your hands on a rare and ancient tome - that would be fun and feel like you're actually doing something to figure out what the item is and what it can do.

[DagothGeas5]

Pokedex
I really like to discover things on my own, and, as Oyster said, Dragon' Dogma does have a sort of learning skill system that I also really enjoyed. I personally would pair it with the example rusty showed but be able to, for example, read a bestiary or make use of all the lore books that are around games like Icewind Dale 2 and mix it so that one could study some creatures, making those truly rare ones quite a find and a conquest to finally "add to the list of knowledge".

[ArcaneLurker]

I don't like the established gameplay formulas around identification, but I think you could potentially do something more interesting with it.

[Humbaba]

In the age of online wikis, this has become completely pointless.

[UltraFan123]

In Neverwinter Nights 2 there was the spell "Identify" but there was also the intelligence-based skill "Lore" which - if you had a high enough rank in this skill and a high enough Int to back it up - made the spell totally pointless since you could automatically identify anything you saw immediately.

But if neither you nor your companions invested in "Lore" then you would be relying on the spell all the time, which as the campaign went on and the items you found were of higher and higher level then you would be casting "Identify" all the time which would become just a chore eventually.

There was no good balance, and identifying stuff was either either an automatic thing or just a buttom click away. A "whatever" feature.

[GhostCow]

Identifying stuff is not fun and I play games for fun

[Rand]

One of the first mods I made for Exile III was to lower the "item lore" skill requirement for all non-magical items to 1.
I shouldn't need item lore to tell the difference between expensive steel plate and cheap iron plate.

Worse, Item Lore was one of the most expensive skills in the game, just slightly behind spellcasting skills.
When it says cost 4/200, that means it costs 4 skill points and 200 coins per point. Both of those are extremely expensive and hard to afford until mid game, at least.
You needed all the other skills to stay alive and progress. It was just a nuisance skill.
Oh, and the Identify spell was the most expensive to cast spell of the game, as well. You couldn't even cast it until mid game and you actually had 50 spell points.

► Show Spoiler

[rusty_shackleford]

identifying items is FUN

I shouldn't need item lore to tell the difference between expensive steel plate and cheap iron plate.

says person who can't tell the difference between steel & iron with a modern education

[Rand]

says person who can't tell the difference between steel & iron with a modern education

1: Rustyposting
2: I can tell which is which instantly, what the **** are you even talking about?

[Envuen]

Mixed. Regular magic items should have their abilities easily readable, rare and unique items should require identification. And NOT an easy one like lvl 1 spell, more like an expensive scroll you gotta buy or town elder you gotta visit. Having an unknown potentially powerful item sitting in your inventory can bring a bit of excitement into the game, you're looking forward to finding out what it is and plan ahead (your route, your purchases) having that in mind.

As for monsters Wizardry 8 did it well, there was a skill for this and it could give all or partial info depending on the skill level.

[rusty_shackleford]

2: I can tell which is which instantly

You should go work at a scrapyard then considering we had to do the spark test + magnet test

[Xenich]

I like identify.

I think a spell that can identify a range of item/mob level and you need a stronger spell at higher levels.

Or the skill idea is good as well that progresses over time allowing you to identify higher level things.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Unidentified monsters are still in vogue in JRPGs. Pokemon, Final Fantasy VII remake, Trails series, etc. You have to cast an identify spell on them first to read their bestiary/Pokedex info and to see their elemental and status resistances/vulnerabilities.

I think it is one of those things that is necessary to uphold the immersion of being in a fantasy world, like monsters dropping items you then have to vendor for gold rather than dropping raw gold. It makes sense that in a fantasy world, there are weird substances or strange magical artifacts that will have to be taken to a scholar/alchemist/wizard/etc to identify.

[Rand]

2: I can tell which is which instantly

You should go work at a scrapyard then considering we had to do the spark test + magnet test

I can identify an iron sword or axe head from a properly made steel one visually.
Then, for swords, you do the bend test. The iron one bends easier, further, and stays bent.

Primitive iron and steel were not difficult to tell apart. Especially for things like Damascus steel and the various equivalents.

[Gunnar]

Grimoire has two levels of identify. One to let you know what the item is, and another that creates a journal entry with everything about the item. Anything less is pitiful decline.

[Tangerine]

I like games where your characters learn through exposure. If there's a bestiary, you learn what items it drops when you get the drops, what moves it uses when it uses the moves, and you learn stats after you've fought a lot of them. The latter preferably increases in fidelity as you fight more of that monster rather than full details being revealed on X monsters killed.

It'd be nice if unidentified items told you some of the abilities upon equip. If I put on a cursed item, then I should know right away it's cursed. If it lowers a stat that the character should be able to tell right away, then give me the directionality of the change (e.g. -strength, not strength - 2).

[Xenich]

I like games where your characters learn through exposure. If there's a bestiary, you learn what items it drops when you get the drops, what moves it uses when it uses the moves, and you learn stats after you've fought a lot of them. The latter preferably increases in fidelity as you fight more of that monster rather than full details being revealed on X monsters killed.

It'd be nice if unidentified items told you some of the abilities upon equip. If I put on a cursed item, then I should know right away it's cursed. If it lowers a stat that the character should be able to tell right away, then give me the directionality of the change (e.g. -strength, not strength - 2).

I think a cursed item should curse the player, but not tell them they are cursed in any way, rather a intermittent negative effect within various themes that gets put onto the player and remains hidden until its effects start becoming apparent in key situations. Then, the player would have to use a spell or some process to identify what is going on and remove it from themselves.

The benefit of this is that it will make save scumming often impractical because the effect may not manifest itself till later in play and if its effects are not directly shown to the character, but rather due to the reactions of their play. If for instance some cursed item makes you appear disgusting to people, this will be seen in various social interactions as to how other NPCs react to them.

If it is a cursed item that creates a negative to combat in some way, finding this out will become apparent as they enter into combat (they miss a lot, spells fizzle a lot, they get very clumsy, or swing at a reduced rate, etc...) and since the effect is not consistent in its appearance, the player could be well past the save where they put the item on before they realize this and so then have to deal with the effect and how to remove it.

Being that the items curse is not consistent it also allows for some flexibility in dealing with the curse until they can get to a point where they can remedy it.

[Xenich]

Furthering on the above idea, cursed items should act like an infection once they first put the item on, not simply be a toggle based on wearing or removing the item. This way, the person could become cursed, not realize it, remove the item and they would be unsure which item caused the curse.

I also think it would be cool that the process of removing the curse should be associated with a using a remove curse spell and a specific ingredient or item needed to complete the process. Maybe having various unique items that are in the world for this purpose or maybe even they spawn into the world upon awaking the curse which then requires the player to seek out this item/ingredient to use in the curse removal process all the while having to deal with the negatives that the curse produces.

This would actually create "game play" within the concept. You could have layers to how curses are identified where it simply doesn't say "this item is cursed", but it gives messages that suggest it is magically altered, but may not identify it as actually cursed unless the player has additional higher level spells/abilities that can discern between it being such.

Combine that with the removal process being more involved, gaining various magic items would then have varied levels of risk vs reward that work with advantages of certain classes who specialize to be able to identify these things and/or remove them. It may even be that some curses have a side effect that is a double edged sword where it provides a benefit, but at a cost and so the player may choose to deal with the curse once they learn about it in play.

Anyway, there are all kinds of ways you can work this.

[asf]

monster is eating your head wat u do

wait im still identifying if it is a dragon or an archnigger

[Xenich]

monster is eating your head wat u do

wait im still identifying if it is a dragon or an archnigger

More like..


A large drake of shimmering color attacks you

"I cast fireball"

The drake beings turning red before it is engulfed in flames and seems unaffected by your spell.

"I cast cone of cold"

As you begin your incantation the dragons color shimmers again turning to a deep bluish color just as you release your spell which seems to have no effect.

"I cast identify monster"

<This is a the famed shimmering drake of magic, which has thin supple scales with magically empathetic properties which mimic the environmental nature of some spells>

"I summon the Forgotten Knight of Vengeance"

<A large Knight appears before you kneeling on the ground with sword planted in fealty>

**What is your command my master**

"Kill all those who would do me harm!"

<The Knight in a flash of blinding speed and grace with perfect fluidity rises and turns in a single motion as the sword cleanly cleaves through the soft supple scales of the magical drakes long neck>
<As the head is still falling to the ground, you notice the Knight has returned to his position of fealty, before you hear the thud of it hitting the ground>

[asf]

you were eaten by the archnigger

[NotAI]

A magic box skill or something should probably be present, in the case of items starting unidentified. So the player can carry more back to town, or merchants who identify, or later upgrade his skill and identity then.

Or a teleportation mechanic like Divinity 1, where most good gear was unidentified at first.

[Norfleet]

It seems unidentified items, never mind monsters, has waned 1995-2025. Why do you think?

Because the Internet exists.

[NotAI]

It seems unidentified items, never mind monsters, has waned 1995-2025. Why do you think?

Because the Internet exists.

Sorta true. Indeed from meta considerations it can be argued that every ordinary level monster or item should have somewhat random procedural stats, if the game involves IDENTIFY skills or spells at its core. The move away from procedurally generated stats may have contributed to the decline.

However, even if not, the internet's meta is mostly for bosses and special items, isn't it?

Where it is even generally expected. Elden Ring has some bosses that melee players seem expected by the dev team to read the meta before fighting with. (They have a nontelegraphed instakill attack halfway into a long fight.)

It's not clear, however, that most people will escape out of their game window to look up low level monster properties by scrolling through a list of pictures on a website, to save some items or XP.

Especially not on day 1 to day 10. When most ppl are playing the release. Only bosses and items that seem rare enough and unique.

[J1M]

In theory I like the idea of killing a monster type giving you an additional piece of information about them. There could be other ways of increasing "Lich lore level" too, such as a conversation in town. Perhaps even a 10% damage bonus for maxing it out.

In reality, I'm not going to read the bestiary entry. So anything significant (immunity to poison) needs to be visible in combat somehow.

[Xenich]

It seems unidentified items, never mind monsters, has waned 1995-2025. Why do you think?

Because the Internet exists.

It existed long before the internet becoming mainstream. Stores/magazines used to sell complete walkthrough guides, cheat codes, even devices for consoles that provided such.

If I had to guess I would say they weighted the profitability concerning it after the internet became mainstream because many people were providing this information for free. So without the market for it, and the fact that many of these types of features required extra development time to implement, the concept of game play where the player had to gather information within the game through play fell to the side.

I have seen arguments over the years about this where the defense for not having them is along the lines of "People will just look it up, so why bother" and this is reflected in various features such as maps and the like.

[maidenhaver]

Yes, its annoying.