Why aren't tetris grid inventories more common?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I remember playing the FATE dungeon crawler way back when and being immersed by the different sizes of my items in my inventory. It made the items feel more "real" if some were larger than others, ie a spear being three blocks long as opposed to a one block sized scroll. It was also cool that you could drag and drop items from your inventory onto the ground in the game world. I was always puzzled as to why more games didn't do this, and instead just had you scroll down a list menu of items. That doesn't really convey the feel of having a bag or backpack full of stuff at all.

[Konjad]

Because that requires work instead of making a simple array.

[Segata]

Accessibility (aka making games for niggers)

[rusty_shackleford]

Something about diablo-style grid inventories feels off. I think they can be done well, but that's definitely not an example of it. I'll see if I can think of any games with good ones
[edit]
Subterrain: Mines of Titan


Think it has something to do with the scale of the objects themselves too. Hard to pinpoint.

[Oyster Sauce]

[Norfleet]

Heh. This talk of Tetris Game Inventories now makes me wonder, what would happen if a game made a NOT TETRIS Inventory.

[asf]

sure, i love arranging items in grids, nothing like finding a spot to fit that stupid thing that has some retarded shape

go back to real men inventories like ultima 7/8/online instead

[aweigh]

I remember playing the FATE dungeon crawler way back when and being immersed by the different sizes of my items in my inventory. It made the items feel more "real" if some were larger than others, ie a spear being three blocks long as opposed to a one block sized scroll. It was also cool that you could drag and drop items from your inventory onto the ground in the game world. I was always puzzled as to why more games didn't do this, and instead just had you scroll down a list menu of items. That doesn't really convey the feel of having a bag or backpack full of stuff at all.

grid-based with item scale and arbitrary slots is probably the best way to do it.

arbitrary slots = how Wizardry/Elminage do it, a list-based inventory where each character can carry 9 "slots", and some items can stack on eacch other while others cannot; therefore you can have x9 dios potions in one slot, but cannot have 9x swords in another slot. Superficial benefit is that it is not tied to an attribute (like STR) so it means that attribute isn't mandatory, but you can still align slots to other more abstract modifiers like class, race, level, etc. An arbitrary amount of slots, potentially dictated by in-game elements and modifiers, allows the developer to more accurately tailor the danger and psychological effect of exploration, and basically just less tedious management in general.

grid-based = a *kind* of system that's closely related to arbitrary item slots, except visualized as a grid. all of the same benefits, at least from a cursory glance. can be linked to a weight mechanic or not, it's not necessary though it is an option. it's not necessary because the 3d space of the grid inherently functions as a natural limit to the amount of items that can be fit inside the grid.

it's additional benefit is "item scale":

item scale = related to the grid-based framework, the grid essentially function as slots and the size and scale of items can introduce additional depth by having a sword occupy more of the grid space than a dagger. the benefits of this should be obvious.

BTW, Resident Evil used all of these techniques well, even if it was a basic implementation since it isn't an RPG.

Personally speaking I prefer a purely list-based inventory with tabs and columns, because as Rusty has said before this way you don't need to manually hover over an item's icon and read text information in order to know which one of your 8 different rings is the one you're looking for; in a list-based inventory with tabs and columns you can immediately see this information because it will be relayed clearly to the right of the item. Also you can simply see more items at once, which is nice.

[1998]

Consoles

[DagothGeas5]

Kenshi also has a tetris inventory (Sacred and others I forget the name, do as well). I hardly have time to play these days, but, thinking back, now I know why I stopped caring about items with more modern games. Tetris system made everything more personal, so to speak, requiring management, now I feel as if the items don't really matter, and you can just stuff them somewhere and forget they are even there (and then have to go fishing around for values to understand which one weights more and is weighting you down so much, while as before you could, usually, see the big-ass thing that was being carried MAYBE was the main problem).

[wndrbr]

Not every game needs a tetris inventory.

TES/Fallout3-4/any Bethesda game/any game where you collect hundreds of different items would've been very annoying to play if they had a tetris inventory.

STALKER series has a tetris inventory, but it doesn't really matter - your inventory capacity is only limited by weight, not size. Same with Neverwinter nights 1, there's really no reason for Bioware to do tetris-inventory.

Tetris inventory is best fit for games where you don't collect a shit ton of items, and where it would make sense balance-wise. Deus Ex 1 is the best example.

[Oldtimer]

The tetris style is good, since it goes by volume, not weight, but it does take more time to make since you have to make icons for every single item you can carry. That said, I'm not a fan of systems where things only has weight, since volume is way more important - an inflated beach ball weighs the same as a deflated one, but is a lot more cumbersome, and volume is more of an issue when packing.

[gerey]

TES/Fallout3-4/any Bethesda game/any game where you collect hundreds of different items would've been very annoying to play if they had a tetris inventory.

I disagree, any game that encourages the player to pick up and hoard hundreds of pieces of trash in their inventory has serious design/balancing issues.

The advantage of a grid inventory is that you are going to identify a given item far quicker if it is represent by a bespoke icon, instead of some stylized/generic icon and text. Visually parsing information is always faster and more efficient than reading. Also, you can use the grid size to denote the type or weight of the item.

I agree that grid inventory works best when inventory space is restricted and the player has to play tetris to make everything fit, but I also think the STALKER approach is far superior to Bethesda's take.

I'm playing KOTOR 1 currently, and the inventory managment is painful. Granted, this is mostly because the game does not provide any way to filter and sort your hoard, but the issue is exacerbated because the developers choose to use a list instead of a grid, when in truth a grid (where each item takes one square ala IE games) could have worked much, much better.

The reason why STALKER uses the superior model is obvious too, it was a game designed from the ground-up for the PC, while Bethesda's offerings are meant for consoles, hence the need to make use of an inferior and far more cumbersome approach.

[wndrbr]

I'm playing KOTOR 1 currently, and the inventory managment is painful. Granted, this is mostly because the game does not provide any way to filter and sort your hoard, but the issue is exacerbated because the developers choose to use a list instead of a grid, when in truth a grid (where each item takes one square ala IE games) could have worked much, much better.

there's a ton of items in KOTOR, managing a grid of icons that all look similar to each other would've been just as inconvenient as a non-filterable list.

The reason why STALKER uses the superior model is obvious too, it was a game designed from the ground-up for the PC, while Bethesda's offerings are meant for consoles, hence the need to make use of an inferior and far more cumbersome approach.

STALKER's system would've been even better if the inventory was limited by weight and size at the same time. If you have a lot of lightweight items, managing this mess becomes a hassle.

[Irenaeus]

The tetris style is good, since it goes by volume, not weight, but it does take more time to make since you have to make icons for every single item you can carry. That said, I'm not a fan of systems where things only has weight, since volume is way more important - an inflated beach ball weighs the same as a deflated one, but is a lot more cumbersome, and volume is more of an issue when packing.

Rare agree with oldtimer.

[gerey]

there's a ton of items in KOTOR, managing a grid of icons that all look similar to each other would've been just as inconvenient as a non-filterable list.

Then make the item icons visually distinct, or cut down on the variations of items. The game has far too many similar items with marginally different stats that serve no clear purpose, not even worldbuilding.

STALKER's system would've been even better if the inventory was limited by weight and size at the same time. If you have a lot of lightweight items, managing this mess becomes a hassle.

Agree on this, though a good compromise would have been for the game to track both weight and volume of the items.

[Lutte]

I much prefer games that don't feature endless inventory management "gameplay".
Don't take me wrong, while I prefer list style UIs I can bear with other paradigms, what I hate is games that favor endless amount of trash to carry, or worse, encourage the use of a crafting system.

Resident Evil is fine, for example, because the inventory isn't something you focus on, its implementation of tetris and limitations exist to force you to have limited resources and a non-autist player will just accept those limitations and work with them rather than against them (ie making endless runs from and to the item box all the time with a stupid obsession to gather all the things. You don't need an infinite amount of ammo if you don't kill things you don't need to kill.).

The moment your game inventory is taking a significant amount of thought in the player's mind maybe, just maybe you should rethink your game design from the fucking ground up.

With that said, even games that want you to carry limited amount of resources don't need inventory tetris. You can have "X slots" instead alloted to your list, with some items taking multiple slots when they would have taken a lot of space in tetris. It leads to the same end as tetris but it's faster to deal with because you instantly know you have X amount of slots still available and whether it's sufficient for Y slots taking item instead of having to do a visual scan of your tetris every now and then.

[Xenich]

Consoles killed not only interface design with PC games, but various elements of game play as well. From basic interface (inventory/journal/character management) to game play (cover, iron sights, world/engine design, etc...).

If PC would have had a natural evolution of development over the years without console influence, interface management systems would have evolved and settled on implementations that are properly suited for mouse/keyboard. Instead, we got years of the handicapped consoles driving all aspects of game design for decades.

[1998]

I much prefer games that don't feature endless inventory management "gameplay".
Don't take me wrong, while I prefer list style UIs I can bear with other paradigms, what I hate is games that favor endless amount of trash to carry, or worse, encourage the use of a crafting system.

Most games don't, just a lot of people are afraid to sell or unload shit because they are afraid they will be missing that exact item later on in the game. Money is also rarely an issue after the first hours. Very few games actually punish you for not hoarding.

[Havitner]

With that said, even games that want you to carry limited amount of resources don't need inventory tetris. You can have "X slots" instead alloted to your list, with some items taking multiple slots when they would have taken a lot of space in tetris. It leads to the same end as tetris but it's faster to deal with because you instantly know you have X amount of slots still available and whether it's sufficient for Y slots taking item instead of having to do a visual scan of your tetris every now and then.

How is that any different from a List + Weight system?

[rusty_shackleford]

Consoles killed not only interface design with PC games, but various elements of game play as well. From basic interface (inventory/journal/character management) to game play (cover, iron sights, world/engine design, etc...).

If PC would have had a natural evolution of development over the years without console influence, interface management systems would have evolved and settled on implementations that are properly suited for mouse/keyboard. Instead, we got years of the handicapped consoles driving all aspects of game design for decades.

List & table style UIs are the earliest form of inventory UIs.
The worst UI is the icon-based UI, offering the advantages of neither grid nor table, with all the downsides. And it came from PC.

[Tweed]

GUI/GUMP inventories are the best because they punish the lazy. If you don't arrange your inventory in Ultima 7 or Anvil of Dawn you'll never be able to find anything.

[rusty_shackleford]

I much prefer games that don't feature endless inventory management "gameplay".
Don't take me wrong, while I prefer list style UIs I can bear with other paradigms, what I hate is games that favor endless amount of trash to carry, or worse, encourage the use of a crafting system.

Resident Evil is fine, for example, because the inventory isn't something you focus on, its implementation of tetris and limitations exist to force you to have limited resources and a non-autist player will just accept those limitations and work with them rather than against them (ie making endless runs from and to the item box all the time with a stupid obsession to gather all the things. You don't need an infinite amount of ammo if you don't kill things you don't need to kill.).

The moment your game inventory is taking a significant amount of thought in the player's mind maybe, just maybe you should rethink your game design from the fucking ground up.

With that said, even games that want you to carry limited amount of resources don't need inventory tetris. You can have "X slots" instead alloted to your list, with some items taking multiple slots when they would have taken a lot of space in tetris. It leads to the same end as tetris but it's faster to deal with because you instantly know you have X amount of slots still available and whether it's sufficient for Y slots taking item instead of having to do a visual scan of your tetris every now and then.

If the argument is there's too many items, that's probably an issue with the game design itself. Grid-based inventories force designers to think more about other design choices.
I like being able to pick up and rotate items in my inventory, it feels more tactile and less abstract than presenting it in a tabular format. But if a game is going to not use a grid-based inventory, then they absolutely should use a table instead. Regular lists are worse, and icon-based is the worst.
Here's an example from KCD:

The context sensitive columns are key to making this the superior format:

When on the armor page, it shows you the things you are interested in with regards to armor in the columns.

I'm going to guess this was probably inspired by SkyUI, the most downloaded Skyrim mod.

---

A grid-based inventory with a way to view all your items in tabular format would also be quite good, especially if it includes any items you may have in stashes.

[Xenich]

Consoles killed not only interface design with PC games, but various elements of game play as well. From basic interface (inventory/journal/character management) to game play (cover, iron sights, world/engine design, etc...).

If PC would have had a natural evolution of development over the years without console influence, interface management systems would have evolved and settled on implementations that are properly suited for mouse/keyboard. Instead, we got years of the handicapped consoles driving all aspects of game design for decades.

List & table style UIs are the earliest form of inventory UIs.
The worst UI is the icon-based UI, offering the advantages of neither grid nor table, with all the downsides. And it came from PC.

I am talking about mouse interaction within the UI's. Consoles force a very specific means of interaction that ignores mouse input movement ability and control which results in this sloppy format that forces a linear progression within the menus. Consoles tend to limit to their lack of free moment that a mouse provides because of the limitations of a controller. While a PC interface that takes into account the mouse's ability will allow for skipping a progression to the specific, the console design requires the mouse movement to be recognized from the original menu entry point and cascade through the systems through a controlled progression because this is the only way a controller can enter and exit the menu systems (aside from limited entrance pull ups for specific menus linked to a button) .

You can see this sort of limitation all through the modern games these days as they do not attend to the mouse's ability and rely on controller based input.

That also doesn't even get into the issue with cover/iron sights forcing many FPS games to a limitation of controller input for aiming and character control or the issues that they have to provide a lot of auto-aiming tools to make it so controllers can even begin to function within those styles of games.

Consoles "forced" a limitation on designs that PC mouse/keyboard interfaces are not limited by.

[wndrbr]

Here's an example from KCD:
The context sensitive columns are key to making this the superior format:
When on the armor page, it shows you the things you are interested in with regards to armor in the columns.

I'm going to guess this was probably inspired by SkyUI, the most downloaded Skyrim mod.

isn't it just a tidied-up Oblivion inventory

[rusty_shackleford]

So which game has the best grid-based inventory?

[1998]

NWN...

[wndrbr]

Probably some survival game, or a milsim. They usually have both size and weight limits, and a huge variety of item types (weapons, armor, ammo, consumables, materials, etc etc). Some even simulate separate pockets, pouches, and carrier vest plate slots.

As for the RPGs, it's probably Arcanum.

[Acrux]

Siege of Avalon