The Wayward Realms

[Xenich]

So you don't like a simulation aspect where the NPC "rolls" to see if he manages a block or parry effectively or not, or manages to do a riposte in response?

How is rolling dice a simulation?

Statistical occurrence is simulation. Chaos theory is an important factor in simulations.

[rusty_shackleford]

So you don't like a simulation aspect where the NPC "rolls" to see if he manages a block or parry effectively or not, or manages to do a riposte in response?

How is rolling dice a simulation?

Statistical occurrence is simulation. Chaos theory is an important factor in simulations.

Rolling dice for whether someone blocks an attack is not a simulation. There is randomness, and it can be represented by the input: the player.

[Xenich]

Yes, but then this leans the game to an action game and at that point,

No, the character is a gestalt. What you want is an autobattler.

What I want is simulation, not twitch of a hand and a keystroke determining result. I want guidance of action (what I attack with, how I apply the attack, what approach I make, etc...) to be controlled by me, but I want the execution of such to be constrained by the metrics of my characters development.

[Rand]

How is rolling dice a simulation?

Seriously?
The universe literally runs on randomness, both the actual kind and the kind where factors are unknowable and therefore cannot be accounted for.
Any simulation that does not want to be a mechanistic, deterministic sim requires some realistic fundamental randomness that the player cannot be certain of expecting/anticipating or controlling.
Or else you get cheesing, which I thought you hated?

[Rand]

I had to click the "submit" button four times to make my fucking post.
I ALREADY complained about this shitty system.
I don't give a fuck if other people posted before I was done typing.
I don't even look at the updates, I just look for and click the "submit" button again.
I want to post what I typed when I push the button.

[Xenich]

How is rolling dice a simulation?

Statistical occurrence is simulation. Chaos theory is an important factor in simulations.

Rolling dice for whether someone blocks an attack is not a simulation. There is randomness, and it can be represented by the input: the player.

How do you translate the numerous deterministic laws of such activities in an environment by those simple actions?

[rusty_shackleford]

How is rolling dice a simulation?

Seriously?
The universe literally runs on randomness, both the actual kind and the kind where factors are unknowable and therefore cannot be accounted for.
Any simulation that does not want to be a mechanistic, deterministic sim requires some realistic fundamental randomness that the player cannot be certain of expecting/anticipating or controlling.
Or else you get cheesing, which I thought you hated?

Statistical occurrence is simulation. Chaos theory is an important factor in simulations.

Rolling dice for whether someone blocks an attack is not a simulation. There is randomness, and it can be represented by the input: the player.

How do you translate the numerous deterministic laws of such activities in an environment by those simple actions?

I just rolled a dice and determined you guys are wrong, you gotta accept it.

[Xenich]

How is rolling dice a simulation?

Seriously?
The universe literally runs on randomness, both the actual kind and the kind where factors are unknowable and therefore cannot be accounted for.
Any simulation that does not want to be a mechanistic, deterministic sim requires some realistic fundamental randomness that the player cannot be certain of expecting/anticipating or controlling.
Or else you get cheesing, which I thought you hated?

At this point I think he is trolling.

[Rand]

How is rolling dice a simulation?

Statistical occurrence is simulation. Chaos theory is an important factor in simulations.

Rolling dice for whether someone blocks an attack is not a simulation. There is randomness, and it can be represented by the input: the player.

I literally cannot believe you typed this and believe it, just as I cannot comprehend anyone privately thinking that transvestites are actually women, despite them typing the slogans.

It is perfectly valid for the NPC to have stats and the AI to "roll" against them to choose combat responses from an appropriate set.

[rusty_shackleford]

Statistical occurrence is simulation. Chaos theory is an important factor in simulations.

Rolling dice for whether someone blocks an attack is not a simulation. There is randomness, and it can be represented by the input: the player.

I literally cannot believe you typed this and believe it, just as I cannot comprehend anyone privately thinking that transvestites are actually women, despite them typing the slogans.

It is perfectly valid for the NPC to have stats and the AI to "roll" against them to choose combat responses from an appropriate set.

This isn't even the same thing we're discussing.

[Nooneatall]

How is rolling dice a simulation?

Seriously?
The universe literally runs on randomness, both the actual kind and the kind where factors are unknowable and therefore cannot be accounted for.
Any simulation that does not want to be a mechanistic, deterministic sim requires some realistic fundamental randomness that the player cannot be certain of expecting/anticipating or controlling.
Or else you get cheesing, which I thought you hated?

At this point I think he is trolling.

He is usually trolling

[Rand]

Rolling dice for whether someone blocks an attack is not a simulation. There is randomness, and it can be represented by the input: the player.

I literally cannot believe you typed this and believe it, just as I cannot comprehend anyone privately thinking that transvestites are actually women, despite them typing the slogans.
It is perfectly valid for the NPC to have stats and the AI to "roll" against them to choose combat responses from an appropriate set.

This isn't even the same thing we're discussing.

Well then I have no idea what you are discussing, because I have been on the same point since sentence #1.

Your character in any RPG has some sort of stat or skill, and so does an NPC.
It is perfectly valid to have a background assessment of number versus number with a random component that determines the outcome of an attempt.
It is obviously better if it is a complex simulation that takes into account the processing power of a PC and so takes factors such as facing into account as well as perhaps (and preferably) a literal myriad of other realistic factors.

The only reasonable complaint with such a system is either that it is not well implemented and so acts very unrealistically, or is not properly conveyed to the player, such as Daggerfall having enemies parry, yet there is no animation to convey this outcome to the player so they can adapt their tactics.
Such as switching to a war maul to batter through a high parry defence, using movement to strike at flanks where parries are difficult, or using a magic attack that cannot be parried at all.

[rusty_shackleford]

Well then I have no idea what you are discussing, because I have been on the same point since sentence #1.

When you attack in morrowind the game performs a roll to see if you actually hit despite your weapon colliding with the enemy.

[Vergil]

Oh God the yap posters found this thread

[Rand]

Well then I have no idea what you are discussing, because I have been on the same point since sentence #1.

When you attack in morrowind the game performs a roll to see if you actually hit despite your weapon colliding with the enemy.

Yup.
So your issues are as I listed, then.
It's a poor simulation that has few factors and is therefore unrealistic seeming. A complaint with which I concur.
AND
It doesn't have the ability to convey why the attack failed to the player, such as a dodge parry animation. Another complaint with which I concur.
(It does have a shield block animation, at least for the player in first person view.)

I also dislike Skyrim's system where weapons have a fixed damage based on (now) a single factor: skill (with potential modifiers from perks and enchantments on the player or weapon) that applies with effectively every mouse click.
So if you're low skill, it's not that you get parried and make poor strikes against armor; ALL enemies take tiny amounts of damage from your NERF weapon like attacks.
Unless you have a epic (Daedric/Artifact) weapon, in which case you now outclass in damage a high skilled opponent (higher level) with a basic sword, despite the fact that he would still beat you in the real world because he would prevent you from hitting while easily striking you himself, due to your poor skill.
And if you did hit him, you would be unlikely to do so well and do serious damage even with an epic sword, but could get a lucky strike (critical) that does serious damage.

[Rand]

Oh God the yap posters found this thread

There's a whole internet full of pictures of men's groins to look at.
Feel free to go do that instead of posting complaints that we're not your class of entertainment, because I just said what is, and it's not deep.

[Vergil]

Oh God the yap posters found this thread

There's a whole internet full of pictures of men's groins to look at.
Feel free to go do that instead of posting complaints that we're not your class of entertainment, because I just said what is, and it's not deep.

DEEP♂DARK♂FANTASIES

[Brother Michael]

Dice rolls were meant to simulate the dynamism of combat while being supported by the player’s imagination. Games are now more capable of representing combat in an engaging way, and should be expected to do so. The ability to build a playstyle around more than just chance to hit is far more interesting.

[Vergil]

Dice rolls were meant to simulate the dynamism of combat while being supported by the player’s imagination. Games are now more capable of representing combat in an engaging way, and should be expected to do so. The ability to build a playstyle around more than just chance to hit is far more interesting.

(It isn't)

[Oyster Sauce]

The ability to build a playstyle around more than just chance to hit is far more interesting.

Oh, like critical hits?

[Vergil]

Can't wait for this to flop so I can call it The Gayward Rims

[Brother Michael]

The ability to build a playstyle around more than just chance to hit is far more interesting.

Oh, like critical hits?

And staggering, power attacking, blocking, dodging, bashing, parrying, and whatever other mechanic that can be developed or combined with others in an action system.

[Vergil]

The ability to build a playstyle around more than just chance to hit is far more interesting.

Oh, like critical hits?

And staggering, power attacking, blocking, dodging, bashing, parrying, and whatever other mechanic that can be developed or combined with others in an action system.

None of those require a purely action based combat system to portray btw

[Nemesis]

Games made by White Men for White Men

Which games are those, in your opinion?

[Brother Michael]

Oh, like critical hits?

And staggering, power attacking, blocking, dodging, bashing, parrying, and whatever other mechanic that can be developed or combined with others in an action system.

None of those require a purely action based combat system to portray btw

Why have random chance as “simulation” when action mechanics locked behind character progression and development are more satisfying to use?

[Oyster Sauce]

And staggering, power attacking, blocking, dodging, bashing, parrying, and whatever other mechanic that can be developed or combined with others in an action system.

None of those require a purely action based combat system to portray btw

Why have random chance as “simulation” when action mechanics locked behind character progression and development are more satisfying to use?

In Morrowind, my guy got better at blocking as I spent dozens of hours fighting and training with a shield. In Skyrim, I just blocked whenever I wanted and nothing changed between the tutorial and whenever I stopped playing.

[Vergil]

And staggering, power attacking, blocking, dodging, bashing, parrying, and whatever other mechanic that can be developed or combined with others in an action system.

None of those require a purely action based combat system to portray btw

Why have random chance as “simulation” when action mechanics locked behind character progression and development are more satisfying to use?

How does your characters skill with a sword and shield progress in Skyrim? Do you block more attacks? Do you wield your sword differently and more efficiently? Oh it just makes number go up so you do a few more points of damage against the damage sponges... I see...

[ArcaneLurker]

It should be like Kenshi where your character's arm gets crippled when you try to block an attack from someone way too strong.
But honestly, all TES combat is quite boring, Morrowind, at least, has good RPG progression.

I'd like to see a sandbox RPG that utilises player skill like Mordhau combat does.

[Oyster Sauce]

None of those require a purely action based combat system to portray btw

Why have random chance as “simulation” when action mechanics locked behind character progression and development are more satisfying to use?

How does your characters skill with a sword and shield progress in Skyrim? Do you block more attacks? Do you wield your sword differently and more efficiently? Oh it just makes number go up so you do a few more points of damage against the damage sponges... I see...

You do unlock a few moves

[Brother Michael]

None of those require a purely action based combat system to portray btw

Why have random chance as “simulation” when action mechanics locked behind character progression and development are more satisfying to use?

How does your characters skill with a sword and shield progress in Skyrim? Do you block more attacks? Do you wield your sword differently and more efficiently? Oh it just makes number go up so you do a few more points of damage against the damage sponges... I see...

With maximum block, your character can send enemies flying with power bashes and the charge move, and more damage is blocked by the shield. Skyrim has the necessary parts for a good combat system without injecting it with MCO slop, but Bethesda fucked up the balancing as usual. It only takes a few lightweight mods to make it worthwhile to take advantage of these things.