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Sea of Stars

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Post by WhiteShark »

I'm only partway through this, but I wanted to point out that the idea that the Emperor was regarded as a living god is western meme history. Yes, Japan did claim that Emperor was descended from the sun goddess Amaterasu, but the concept was much closer to the western 'divine right of kings' than to the god-emperors of the ancient world. In essence, the Emperor's lineage gave him the right to rule and the responsibility of propitiating the gods for the wellbeing of the people. Amaterasu herself wasn't believed to be omnipotent—she isn't even one of the creator deities in Shinto mythology—and the Emperor wasn't believed to have superhuman capabilities or anything of the sort.

This is all covered in the Kokutai no Hongi (The Fundamental Significance of the Body Politic, my translation) which, being a government-published document from that era, would be expected to take the most expansive view of the Emperor's divinity and authority.
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Post by Acrux »

WhiteShark wrote: September 7th, 2023, 02:20
In essence, the Emperor's lineage gave him the right to rule and the responsibility of propitiating the gods for the wellbeing of the people.
I immediately picked up on this sentence, because that sounds remarkably like the Nephelim creating ritual that we've discussed in the past.
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Post by maidenhaver »

The west take our concept of divine emperors from a number of influences, some near eastern, but in ancient times, the cult of the founders of the city was the basis of State, Family, and Religion. A man worshipped his father, his father's father, and so on and expected his own deity and his eldest son to worship him. Without worship, that is living memory, he would starve in the underworld and wander our world as a ghost. For more, read The Ancient City by Numa Denis Fustel De Coulanges.
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Post by KnightoftheWind »

WhiteShark wrote: September 7th, 2023, 02:20
I'm only partway through this, but I wanted to point out that the idea that the Emperor was regarded as a living god is western meme history. Yes, Japan did claim that Emperor was descended from the sun goddess Amaterasu, but the concept was much closer to the western 'divine right of kings' than to the god-emperors of the ancient world. In essence, the Emperor's lineage gave him the right to rule and the responsibility of propitiating the gods for the wellbeing of the people. Amaterasu herself wasn't believed to be omnipotent—she isn't even one of the creator deities in Shinto mythology—and the Emperor wasn't believed to have superhuman capabilities or anything of the sort.

This is all covered in the Kokutai no Hongi (The Fundamental Significance of the Body Politic, my translation) which, being a government-published document from that era, would be expected to take the most expansive view of the Emperor's divinity and authority.
By stating that ancient Japan believed their Emperor was descended from a god, it kinds proves the point doesn't it?. The Medieval Christian understanding of the Divine Right of Kings acknowledges the King as supreme ruler, but he himself is not divine or descended from God in any way. He is still very much a man, but appointed to a very important and transcendent role. Being the closest approximation to the Absolute rule of God in Heaven, on Earth.

This fascination with all things Japanese is strange. I get that a lot of people watch anime and play Japanese games, but surely we don't hold their real-world culture with any sort of reverence. If anything their culture is one of the most perverse and consumer-oriented on Earth.
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Post by Gregz »

There's a sassy fat black bitch on the crew who starts making derogatory references to common JRPG tropes. It's incredibly annoying. Yes, you dumb faggots, we know JRPGs take silly liberties with reality. Please shut the fuck up, it's not funny.
That's all I needed to read. Next game review when?
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Post by WhiteShark »

KnightoftheWind wrote: September 7th, 2023, 03:15
By stating that ancient Japan believed their Emperor was descended from a god, it kinds proves the point doesn't it?. The Medieval Christian understanding of the Divine Right of Kings acknowledges the King as supreme ruler, but he himself is not divine or descended from God in any way. He is still very much a man, but appointed to a very important and transcendent role. Being the closest approximation to the Absolute rule of God in Heaven, on Earth.
The point is that the Emperor's rulership is more like an inherited obligation than a result of his personal transcendency. The first Emperor was tasked with ordering the realm, materially and spiritually, and that responsibility passes to his descendents. The Emperors are venerated, but much in the same way as one's own ancestors are venerated: like fathers to their people. It was never a worship of the Emperor as an absolute divinity.

As Christians and westerners it is easy to get confused on this point, but the Japanese gods are not in any way comparable to the Christian God. Even the word they use for 'god', kami, basically just means 'spirit'. Being a descendent of a god in Shintoism, even one of the greatest ones like Amaterasu, is much more about having an honorable lineage than it is about being personally divine. Though the imperial family was always paid great respect, there were no illusions that the Emperors were anything but mortal. After all, the Emperors themselves aged and died, and there were branch families that didn't go around flexing their divinity.
KnightoftheWind wrote: September 7th, 2023, 03:15
This fascination with all things Japanese is strange. I get that a lot of people watch anime and play Japanese games, but surely we don't hold their real-world culture with any sort of reverence. If anything their culture is one of the most perverse and consumer-oriented on Earth.
One must take the good and leave the bad. Modern Japanese culture has some terrible flaws, but one can say the exact same thing about modern western culture—and in some ways, ours is much worse. I don't pretend that any culture on this Earth is beyond reproach. However, I personally find historical Japanese culture very interesting, and like most historical civilizations, it has (had) many genuine virtues. It irks me when these are misrepresented. I was taught the same line about emperor worship when I was in university, but then when I read the Japanese government's own writing on the matter a decade later, it turned out to be almost entirely wrong.
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Post by likerasapdisgaea »

Kalarion wrote: September 1st, 2023, 16:19
I was surprised there's no thread yet. I'll start.

Bought it a couple days ago. Observations:
PROS
- very good looking.
- encourages interaction with the environment through terrain traversal. Additional methods open up as the game continues, ala old Zelda.
- encourages interaction with the battle system through timed attacks and blocks. I have a really hard time with block timing especially, but that's ok because...
- combat is punchy and appropriately dangerous if you're not making use of your pots and managing MP.
- combo system is simple and fun. Think Chrono Trigger.
- story is simple and unsubverted so far (this may change, there are hints). Two Chosen Ones and their best friend go on an adventure to save the world. Love it.
- the Wheel minigame is fun. It's no arcomage but there's some basic tactics involved.
- Duke Aventry is a trVe Bro.

CONS
- character graphics, esp main characters, look like they were pulled directly from Steven Universe. I call it CalArts sensibility, I don't know if that's the proper descriptive term or not.
- fishing minigame is very shallow, fish don't do anything but provide pot-making ingredients. Breath of Fire III this ain't. Maybe this changes later?
- visual/auditory aids on timed attacks can be misleading. I had a hard time getting the timing down on Moonerang because the visual for deflection didn't match the required timing. In the case of PC skills that's mitigated by the fact you have the entire game to get the rhythm down. However the mismatch is very aggravating for monster attacks, since you've only got until you stop encountering that mob to get the timing correct. I frequently don't.
- a little too ironically meta for its own good. Generally it's just a minor irritation, but sometimes blows up into full rage induction. Especially the pirates. There's a sassy fat black bitch on the crew who starts making derogatory references to common JRPG tropes. It's incredibly annoying. Yes, you dumb faggots, we know JRPGs take silly liberties with reality. Please shut the fuck up, it's not funny.

I'll post more as I get further.
Sea of stars is on gamepass right? I was going to play it after I finish BG3 but how woke is it? The cal arts style had me a bit weary despite the good things ive heard...
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Post by likerasapdisgaea »

Shillitron wrote: September 2nd, 2023, 04:16
Kalarion wrote: September 2nd, 2023, 04:10
Please tell me this is fake.

Please.
Lol.. It's in the backer room. Sorry Bro.
Well, easily avoidable...and not the devs themselves so
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Post by Shillitron »

likerasapdisgaea wrote: September 7th, 2023, 14:53
Well, easily avoidable...and not the devs themselves so
Lol cope.
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Post by Tweed »

likerasapdisgaea wrote: September 7th, 2023, 14:53
Shillitron wrote: September 2nd, 2023, 04:16
Kalarion wrote: September 2nd, 2023, 04:10


Please tell me this is fake.

Please.
Lol.. It's in the backer room. Sorry Bro.
Well, easily avoidable...and not the devs themselves so
Welcome to Copenhagen, population: you.
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Post by Kalarion »

likerasapdisgaea wrote: September 7th, 2023, 14:22
Sea of stars is on gamepass right? I was going to play it after I finish BG3 but how woke is it? The cal arts style had me a bit weary despite the good things ive heard...
It's what I'm calling "culturally woke" in my head. Elements of wokeness are scattered throughout the game, but I don't think they're deliberately ideological. It's more like it's just the done thing nowadays, and the devs are just following the cultural plot like most sheeple.

I was planning to write more once I'd finished hate-playing it. It shouldn't be much longer, this game is very on-rails. I would have finished already if circumstances IRL hadn't prevented me from playing more than 1-2 hours a day for the last week. TLDR; it's an imitation of its predecessors, and not a good one unfortunately. There's some fun to be had but not enough for a purchase from people with experience in the games Sea of Stars imitates.
Gregz wrote: September 7th, 2023, 03:27
That's all I needed to read. Next game review when?
I hadn't thought of that :scratch:
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Post by Jason Bright »

Tweed wrote: September 7th, 2023, 15:29
likerasapdisgaea wrote: September 7th, 2023, 14:53
Shillitron wrote: September 2nd, 2023, 04:16


Lol.. It's in the backer room. Sorry Bro.
Well, easily avoidable...and not the devs themselves so
Welcome to Copenhagen, population: you.
More like Stockholm
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Post by Shillitron »

FYI there was a huge thread on this game's forum bitching about how the writer was a huge Jordan Peterson fan because of comments he made and some of the metaphors he put in a game.

I think they even came out and admitted the writer really likes Jordan Peterson's 'teachings'. So now everyone is mad.

{current_year} things.
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Post by rusty_shackleford »

Shillitron wrote: September 7th, 2023, 16:32
FYI there was a huge thread on this game's forum bitching about how the writer was a huge Jordan Peterson fan because of comments he made and some of the metaphors he put in a game.

I think they even came out and admitted the writer really likes Jordan Peterson's 'teachings'. So now everyone is mad.

{current_year} things.
lefties hate him because their rooms are dirty and they're too lazy to clean it
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Post by likerasapdisgaea »

Tweed wrote: September 7th, 2023, 15:29
likerasapdisgaea wrote: September 7th, 2023, 14:53
Shillitron wrote: September 2nd, 2023, 04:16


Lol.. It's in the backer room. Sorry Bro.
Well, easily avoidable...and not the devs themselves so
Welcome to Copenhagen, population: you.
Yeah it is 100% cope but atleast it isnt like BG3 where it is part of the main story lol
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Post by Kalarion »

Finally finished it yesterday.

Of the initial pros, the graphics and art direction held out through the entire game. It looks great. Terrain traversal and the combo system started getting dull pretty quick. The storyline (surprisingly, given the cultural wokeness) held up throughout the game. Combat stayed mildly engaging, in the sense that it's dangerous if you're not paying attention. The storyline was by far the best part about this game (besides maybe the graphics and art direction), and held up throughout. Wheels remained fun as well, with new pieces being introduced throughout play.

Character portraits were fucking awful. Everyone looks like they have 50 extra lbs of babyfat in their cheeks, their teeth all look like characters from Gumball, and it completely ruined facial expression changes during dialogue. Fucking awful. Fishing was quite obviously a shallow fan-service (more on that idea later). It wasn't engaging, difficult, or rewarding. It could have been cut with nothing of value lost. I never got used to the timed combat system, but I was able to do well enough that it didn't (usually) infuriate me. Meta references remained retarded throughout. This goes back to my mention of fanservice.

At the end of the day, this game's biggest strengths were its graphics and storyline. "Story, Kal?!" you say with a malicious gleam in your eye, "I thought you hated all forms of wokeness and SJWism! I bet you're about to take the bear dick with the rest of us!"

Well fuck man, you guys may be right. Let's look at examples of Current Year SJW on display:
  • dumb, fat, black cunt who mouths cringingly snarky lines and makes constant snide meta remarks about JRPGs in general.
  • character portraits straight out of CalArts. The most heinous isn't actually our heroes, it's a (horribly scripted) villain from early-ish game.
  • gay ghosts. Yes, I'm serious. Only in one area, and only one enemy type. So I guess I could cope by LARPing that I'm purging the degenerates. Still.
  • troon backer message that was allowed to stand.
Against these four points you have a storyline that's a simple, straightforward Hero's Journey played completely straight. The heroes are actually nice kids. Their best friend is a great Second Man. The other characters are all nice guys and girls whose motivations are, without exception, to help people (their own, or in general). The heroes' idols (older Solstice Warriors) do a very plain, unreversed heel turn. They become the villains and that's what they're shown as: villains, selfish and shortsighted. Their fates are commensurate with their choice. At the end our heroes take on a new, greater task with their accumulated power, and there the game closes.

I want to give special mention to the game's Second Man, Garl. His final contribution to the fight against the game's supervillain is simple, humble, fun, and has an enormous impact. It was genuinely warm and loving, and a great example of how someone who is never intended to be the great hero or focus of the story is nevertheless absolutely required for the heroes to win the day. It was very well done. Major kudos to the devs on this. And it also serves as a perfect illustrative example of how to do an homage, to evoke a certain feeling, without falling into shitty fanservice. The same goes, to a lesser extent, for the entire storyline.

Against these strengths you unfortunately have very large millstones around the game's neck: the entire thing (minus the storyline) is a fanservice. I've already mentioned the meta references repeatedly. We can add to that the fact that every aspect of gameplay - every single one - is a blatant copy of the games it services, done worse and more shallow. You see what's being aimed at here, and it all falls short. An on-rails game with a huge open world and lots of optional content/exploration near the end, becomes here a 30+ hour slog, followed by perhaps one hour's worth of side content (with one very fun, frustrating and well-made exception) prior to the final dungeon and battles. Fun and engaging minigames become here somewhat interesting activities that quickly devolve into boring chores for rote rewards. Cool character attack combos become here a flat, uninteresting group of options with very few right answers (hint: Great Eagle, Arcane Conflagration and Mending Light). This game constantly pokes you in the eye with its predecessors, rather than evoking a feeling gotten from older games while creating a distinct identity of its own. And they don't stop there. You're subjected to repeated cultural references (mostly movie quotes) from the 80s, 90s and 00s.

At the end of the day what I think we have is a game that might conceivably serve as a decent entry point to the genre for starry-eyed newcomers who have never played the greats. For the rest of us, its good storyline and good art direction might put it in the "above average" category, if you're willing to put up with cultural woke and an overall shallow game. 6/10.
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Post by somerandomdude »

Based Chinamen are now making better RPGs than woke western shit. Wandering Sword, it's better than Sea of Soy for sure.

Image
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Post by KnightoftheWind »

somerandomdude wrote: September 20th, 2023, 14:31
Based Chinamen are now making better RPGs than woke western shit. Wandering Sword, it's better than Sea of Soy for sure.

Image
Out of all the things they could have ripped off, why Octopath Traveler?. It looks like a bunch of ugly photoshop filters slapped together.
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Post by somerandomdude »

KnightoftheWind wrote: September 20th, 2023, 14:45
somerandomdude wrote: September 20th, 2023, 14:31
Based Chinamen are now making better RPGs than woke western shit. Wandering Sword, it's better than Sea of Soy for sure.

Image
Out of all the things they could have ripped off, why Octopath Traveler?. It looks like a bunch of ugly photoshop filters slapped together.
I don't think there's one person who rates the aesthetics for the game very highly. It could have been worse, like some cell shaded garbage.
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Post by Acrux »

KnightoftheWind wrote: September 20th, 2023, 14:45
somerandomdude wrote: September 20th, 2023, 14:31
Based Chinamen are now making better RPGs than woke western shit. Wandering Sword, it's better than Sea of Soy for sure.

Image
Out of all the things they could have ripped off, why Octopath Traveler?. It looks like a bunch of ugly photoshop filters slapped together.
The sprites may look similar, but the game is completely different and one of the better RPGs I've played in a while.

Octopath on the other hand is one of the.most highly overrated games ever.
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Post by GhostCow »

Chinese make some decent games, but I can't stand the sound of their language and most of their games don't have a dub.
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